is all specs viable in Mythic+ ?

[Deleted]

your gear is not scaled down. higher levels of mythic will be harder, but you will also be more geared. You still don't need to optimize any more than you did before.

What the hell are you even talking about? Mythic gear, the gear you'll loot out of the chest in your Order Hall is weekly. You wont get loot twice out of the same keystone stage. Gearing in mythic+ will be tedious.

And your last sentence is a joke right? Scrubs won't optimise like usual, but good players will and pugs copy cat this approach. Like it always has been.

[arktos828]

How I'd rate each spec:
Enh - Tier 1 1/2. They're not as OP as before but aren't terrible but you can find better options.

Resto - Tier 2. I think they're behind holy priest, resto druid in mythic+ pushing but they're okay in higher mythic+ so far I've completed a +11 MoS within the time frame. We can't heal full group as well or as efficient as a priest/druid and we don't have great tank healing or a cd to throw on them when shit hits that fan that doesn't require every1 to stand in slt. But what we do bring is extra interrupt/aoe stun/ankh totem that we can abuse for death runs.

Ele - Tier 3 (lowest possible) Just aren't in a very good place at all. What made them good a month ago blizz decided to hit them hard with nerfs. You use to bring a Ele with 2 high burst classes mainly for the high burst ST ele use to do. Now they arent even in the top 3 for burst and their sustain is middle of the pack and their aoe is probably the worst its been ever. The ramp up time on the aoe is so bad and blizz really needs to fucking remove EQ and just let us cl spam. There is never a good time to use EQ when your doing higher mythic+ pushes cause you throw in the combo of affixes and tanks can't keep things in 1 spot for EQ to do anything. Tanks have to kite alot and this hurts ele more than any other class in the game.

Even with all that said I still like the gameplay of Ele. I think its better than it was before just blizz are a bunch of idiots that don't now how to balance things correctly unless your a mage.

[mkultra55]

I think there's some misconceptions about Mythic Plus in Legion. It's not just going to be AoE and cheese strats.

Remember that many of the Affixes mean no AoE. Raging, Sanguine and Skittish will mean single target focus and CC like pre Wrath 5 mans. That means that hard CC like Hex and AoE stuns like Lightning Surge Totem will be very useful.

[Yizu]

I think there's some misconceptions about Mythic Plus in Legion. It's not just going to be AoE and cheese strats.

Remember that many of the Affixes mean no AoE. Raging, Sanguine and Skittish will mean single target focus and CC like pre Wrath 5 mans. That means that hard CC like Hex and AoE stuns like Lightning Surge Totem will be very useful.

Have u done higher mythic+ levels on beta?

[Deleted]

I think there's some misconceptions about Mythic Plus in Legion. It's not just going to be AoE and cheese strats.

Remember that many of the Affixes mean no AoE. Raging, Sanguine and Skittish will mean single target focus and CC like pre Wrath 5 mans. That means that hard CC like Hex and AoE stuns like Lightning Surge Totem will be very useful.

The go-to tactics will be exactly what it's always has been. AE shit fest combined with cheese strats later on.

[mkultra55]

The go-to tactics will be exactly what it's always has been. AE shit fest combined with cheese strats later on.

Eventually. Just like we eventually started AoE'ing in Shattered Halls back in TBC (maybe not the best example) or eventually we just ran through the highest level Greater Rifts while farming in D3 (better example). I just wouldn't want to heal a group that tried to AoE a trash pack that had Raging as an Affix when pushing Plus levels that were at the high end of our current gear.

From my experience Mythic Plus dungeons are more akin to Greater Rifts than current Challenge Modes. In D3 you know right away if you have the gear and build to beat the timer. The timer is very lenient when you do Rifts with proper gear. Mythic plus felt the same way. You can't slowly derp through them but you also don't need to risk wiping on trash with PITA affixes by AoE'ing down everything all the time. One wipe is enough to lose so the timer seems more like a wipe counter. If you play smart and have the gear you'll win.

I agree that once people start filling out their gear they'll adjust how they play but that's always been the case.

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post41663824

This thread sums everything up which was previously said by me. I'll follow it.

[Krazzorx]

The biggest advantage ele has in mythic+ is its ranged with melee utility.

Short CD interupt and aoe stun. Not something any other ranged have. (Especially the short cd interupt)

[Wenoxar]

What does "mythic+" term mean? xD Is it mythic dungeons?

[Murderdoll]

What does "mythic+" term mean? xD Is it mythic dungeons?

Think of it as Greater Rifts in Diablo. You can keep scaling up the difficulty of the dungeon trying to push harder and faster.

Its going to be one of those things where if you want to push for it, youll be taking a set composition.

If you want to group for one with pugs you wont be brought if you arent one of those composition.

If you arent in that composition and youre just interested in doing them at your own pace, youll need a guild group or get lucky in the group finder (I know on Frostmourne for example, you will be hard pressed finding a group if you arent in that "best comp" group).

Elemental has already been shunned to the Do Not Invite list on beta as has SPriest. Thats not to say they wont be able to do them. Youll just need be probably find a guild group and you probably will have a hard time pushing for those top levels in a timely manner.

[frychikn]

man these forums are so depressing, you have people who say ele is just fine in beta then you have people like you candosht that i swear are probably just god awful to be around IRL with their attitude.

Are any of the naysayers actually people who have tested all their doom and gloom theories in beta? Because it sounds so silly to me how preach gaming can go and say its his favorite spec and its just feels so amazing in the beta and then you have people who say its the worst thing ever. 1 or the other is highly exaggerating.

[gunner007]

man these forums are so depressing, you have people who say ele is just fine in beta then you have people like you candosht that i swear are probably just god awful to be around IRL with their attitude.

Are any of the naysayers actually people who have tested all their doom and gloom theories in beta? Because it sounds so silly to me how preach gaming can go and say its his favorite spec and its just feels so amazing in the beta and then you have people who say its the worst thing ever. 1 or the other is highly exaggerating.

Feels amazing and performing well are two different things. Does elemental feel better? Hell yea it does. So many QOL improvements with the shock overlaps and multiple other things. Performance wise, it's pretty much "meh" at the other end.

Leveling an enhancement and elemental on the beta, the two are miles apart, and that's without even stepping into a raid. As stated earlier, in mythic+, the required ramp up time to get EQ rolling is just too long (something that really needs fixed). Having to do 3 CL's (or more) to get a single EQ down to get some AOE running or just flat out ES spamming your MS away is about the only thing you can do. It used to be Ele could do some single target burst through ascendance and decent AOE. Now it's just mediocre ST and pretty laughable AoE. Enhance currently will destroy elemental in both spots (even worse when you gain your doom wolves) [the AOE comparison isn't really close. The amount of dmg you can do with Doom Wolves + Crash Lightning is nuts]

Even going back to solo play, elemental just feels incredibly weak. Your burst CD's are on incredibly long CD's (assuming you don't take EM) or are a bit counter-intuitive to play (Icefury) [lots of maelstrom pooling].

(losing that long FS sucks /sadface)

Elemental is fine in normal group play, but if you're serious about a raid spot (given you're not overloaded on melee) or looking to higher levels of mythic+ in a mythic pug, enhance will probably be your meal ticket. My guess is it's enhance > resto > elemental in terms of needs. (Resto loses out a bit due to no large tank CD's)

Hell, the sheer mobility of enhance feels great. Outside of EQ, elemental really brings nothing else to the table in terms of group composition. [You can even say it hinders, as once you get to the higher tiers with affixes, there's no way tanks can just stand their ground in EQ] They both have control totems, purge, shear, hex, etc... Enhance bringing stormlash just sweetens the deal. Elemental self healing is just... bleh. I wish they sort of had a weaker version of enhance's insta-self healing with no maelstrom cost. Enhance can self heal fairly well, and maelstrom generation is quick. It's a lot worse on the elemental side since if you are healing, you're not casting, and thus never generating maelstrom.

In any case I'm rambling. You get the idea. Elemental isn't a complete dumpster fire, but it's a lot worse than your other options.

[arktos828]

I think there's some misconceptions about Mythic Plus in Legion. It's not just going to be AoE and cheese strats.

Remember that many of the Affixes mean no AoE. Raging, Sanguine and Skittish will mean single target focus and CC like pre Wrath 5 mans. That means that hard CC like Hex and AoE stuns like Lightning Surge Totem will be very useful.

Well obviously you don't really run much mythic+ cause right now this week its bolstering, skittish, fortify. So NO you can not single target stuff down cause it just going to buff everything else around it with bolstering. You have to aoe everything down equally so you don't buff multiple trash pack insanely high. Some weeks it may work to ST stuff down but then thats not being efficient. And doing higher mythic+ is all about being efficient. So you want high aoe burst classes and typically 1 decent aoe burst/st burst class in your group.

[mkultra55]

........ My guess is it's enhance > resto > elemental in terms of needs. (Resto loses out a bit due to no large tank CD's).........

I'd argue that Resto's Mastery coupled with Ancestral Vigor makes them very strong even without a traditional Tank CD. Though one could argue that SLT fits the bill and then some. Add in any of the T90 talents for a potent combo.

TBH I think adding a Tank CD on top of the rest of their kit would be OP.

- - - Updated - - -

Well obviously you don't really run much mythic+ cause right now this week its bolstering, skittish, fortify. So NO you can not single target stuff down cause it just going to buff everything else around it with bolstering. You have to aoe everything down equally so you don't buff multiple trash pack insanely high. Some weeks it may work to ST stuff down but then thats not being efficient. And doing higher mythic+ is all about being efficient. So you want high aoe burst classes and typically 1 decent aoe burst/st burst class in your group.

Where did I say that you'd get those single target type Affixes every week? Please don't put words in my mouth. My point was it's not always going to be just an AOE-fest style comp like the current Challenge Modes which is exactly what you said as well.

I'd argue that it's equally important to have multiple AoE stuns which is a tremendous help dealing with high Tank damage. Remember that efficiency also means avoiding deaths along with fast kills.

[fengosa]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post41663824

This thread sums everything up which was previously said by me. I'll follow it.

Here's the most relevant post from that thread

For around ~10 you want player skill over class. You only need to start looking at min-max'ing classes at around 13+. M10 is all you need for getting the highest ilvl base from the chest and the 880 piece from the weekly chest. Every class can do M10.

Once again, unless you're aiming for personal best times any dps should be viable. Especially ranged with bloodlust.

[mkultra55]

Here's the most relevant post from that thread

For around ~10 you want player skill over class. You only need to start looking at min-max'ing classes at around 13+. M10 is all you need for getting the highest ilvl base from the chest and the 880 piece from the weekly chest. Every class can do M10.

Once again, unless you're aiming for personal best times any dps should be viable. Especially ranged with bloodlust.

That's what I got out of it as well. Especially since Mythic Plus is really designed for organized groups of friends. The only people who should worry about perfect comps are those who have to PuG or those going for personal best times.

[Wenoxar]

Think of it as Greater Rifts in Diablo. You can keep scaling up the difficulty of the dungeon trying to push harder and faster.

Its going to be one of those things where if you want to push for it, youll be taking a set composition.

If you want to group for one with pugs you wont be brought if you arent one of those composition.

If you arent in that composition and youre just interested in doing them at your own pace, youll need a guild group or get lucky in the group finder (I know on Frostmourne for example, you will be hard pressed finding a group if you arent in that "best comp" group).

Elemental has already been shunned to the Do Not Invite list on beta as has SPriest. Thats not to say they wont be able to do them. Youll just need be probably find a guild group and you probably will have a hard time pushing for those top levels in a timely manner.

Do you (or anyone else) know/predict what team comp will be pretty good for m+?

[Deleted]

man these forums are so depressing, you have people who say ele is just fine in beta then you have people like you candosht that i swear are probably just god awful to be around IRL with their attitude.

Are any of the naysayers actually people who have tested all their doom and gloom theories in beta? Because it sounds so silly to me how preach gaming can go and say its his favorite spec and its just feels so amazing in the beta and then you have people who say its the worst thing ever. 1 or the other is highly exaggerating.

Preach specifially points out every video his opinions are purely based on how fun the gameplay is (which noone seems to be disputing) and he doesnt even consider thier numbers, BM hunters could be the highest DPS in the game he would still rate them bottom as they are super boring and uninteresting.

But if BM Hunter are doing the highest dps in every situation for example but a Shadow Priest are doing lower dps than the tanks for 80% of the dungeon it doesnt matter how fun or how boring a class is one is going to be taken one isnt because how fun or boring a class is doesnt beat content.

[Deleted]

man these forums are so depressing, you have people who say ele is just fine in beta then you have people like you candosht that i swear are probably just god awful to be around IRL with their attitude.

Are any of the naysayers actually people who have tested all their doom and gloom theories in beta? Because it sounds so silly to me how preach gaming can go and say its his favorite spec and its just feels so amazing in the beta and then you have people who say its the worst thing ever. 1 or the other is highly exaggerating.

This is because me and other people who do progression raiding and rated PvP (note: this excludes people who think that clearing a raid 3 months after its release is considered progression raiding), who also enjoy Elemental and really wish it was viable for our play styles (high end PvE/P), but it just isnt because Blizzard is unable to tune us correctly or fix bad mechanics since 2004.

I also dont go and watch YouTube videos where people talk about their feelings. This is meaningless. Ask 5 different people on MMO-C, Earthshrine or the official forums - everyone will tell you 5 different things. But you know who doesnt lie? Numbers, sheets and your own gameplay experience. Elemental will be perfectly viable for questing, picking up flowers, raiding with your disabled mage friends - but it certainly wont be for high end PvE/P where everyone is equally skilled in its current state. If you do 65% of a mage/warlock/X you arent bearable for progression.

[miffy23]

That's because you have people here who will shit all over the spec if it's not fotm =)
And if it's not fotm for PvE progression race, it is demonstrably "shit spec made by incompetent clowns".

That has very little to do with the spec's actual ability to do the content, mind you.