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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    this is much different than WoD.
    Out of curiosity, what do you consider the differences? I didn't play WoD nor Legion beta, but based on everything I've seen, Legion is just more of the same with mostly superficial changes.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    During Burning Crusade you had to be level 70 to get flying, they changed that to level 60 during Wrath of The Lich King..
    What happened later doesn't matter much though, disgraceful as the change was. When the content was new, flying was capped to promote interaction, as well as this now mythical term, known as "world PVP". TBC was a fun expansion.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyCola View Post
    This "WoW is old" stuff doesn't make any sense to me. It's not like they're still selling vanilla. WoW is franchise like CoD with regular releases. I think WoW would be capable of reaching 15-20 million subscribers today with a different development philosophy.
    The MMORPG genre in the format WoW uses is old and dead. The only reason WoW still survives is because as you said yourself, it's a franchise.

    The newer gaming generation isn't really interested in a game like WoW. Hence many players are like 30+ now. To reach those 15-20 million subs again they need to revamp the game completely but then you'd loose all it's core players. I play WoW because it's WoW. I don't play it as a cutting edge raider as I used to do 8-10 years ago but I still enjoy the game. If they changed the core elements it wouldn't be WoW anymore and I'd quit.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    The MMORPG genre in the format WoW uses is old and dead. The only reason WoW still survives is because as you said yourself, it's a franchise.

    The newer gaming generation isn't really interested in a game like WoW. Hence many players are like 30+ now. To reach those 15-20 million subs again they need to revamp the game completely but then you'd loose all it's core players. I play WoW because it's WoW. I don't play it as a cutting edge raider as I used to do 8-10 years ago but I still enjoy the game. If they changed the core elements it wouldn't be WoW anymore and I'd quit.
    The older gaming fans who made them popular in the first place are now dogshit, in your analysis?

    They changed the core elements already. Subs tanked late WotLK / Cataclysm. LFD, remember? Nerf classes, linear dungeons, dumb down world, make WoW have even more single player aspects, make epic openly available - to casuals. Subs tanked some more.

    Uhh change for the sake of change is bad, especially when the previous model was working. The cash-shop didn't help much either I suppose, that came around the sub loss era. I suppose Blizzard wanted to keep profits without as many subs.

    The "newer" generation doesn't seem to desire many of what made Legacy interesting. Blizzard is likely already committed though, and will suffer the ups and downs --- resulting in less content updates, as previously shown.

    Blizzard said they want more updates, but it's not really the first time they made promises to have stuff out more often and faster. It's an old joke
    Last edited by Vineri; 2016-08-02 at 03:22 AM.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    The older gaming fans who made them popular in the first place are now dogshit, in your analysis?

    They changed the core elements already. Subs tanked late WotLK / Cataclysm. LFD, remember? Nerf classes, linear dungeons, dumb down world, make WoW have even more single player aspects, make epic openly available - to casuals. Subs tanked some more.

    Uhh change for the sake of change is bad, especially when the previous model was working. The cash-shop didn't help much either I suppose, that came around the sub loss era. I suppose Blizzard wanted to keep profits without as many subs.
    The core game is still the same as it was in vanilla. It's a holy trinity hot key based mmo, you level, you do professions, dungeon, raid, pvp etc etc. That's the core of the game.

    You remember what happened to Wildstar? The hardcore MMORPG.....

    WoW is what, 12 years old this year? It's an old game... Making it harder or easier won't bring people back or attract new people. There are more popular games that do that now. To have a huge resurgence again it needs to be a completely new game.

    If Blizzard decides to make a new MMORPG I'm pretty sure there would be atleast 15 million playing it. But not if it had the same format as WoW.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    There's actually a smaller but still very noticeable jump in subs at MoP's release, too. And before that the game was either still on the upswing when the expansion released (TBC, WotLK), or plateaued (Cataclysm). Given that, I expect that, if numbers were still being released, we'd see a sizable jump right around now that will probably peter back out in six months or so.

  7. #367
    I already ordered the game as I think the initial experience is usually worth it. I won't start playing until 1 or 2 weeks after launch though (maybe more). Iirc they'll release Deus Ex: Mankind Divided before, which I will play first to pass on the server shit show that the first two weeks is undoubtedly going to be. I don't intend to give blizzard money for waiting in 14 hour cues again ..

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by lazzy View Post
    Usually when pre-patch is about to hit the hype train starts and people start flooding back to WoW. We have less than a week till pre-patch and I don't see any signs of people returning in droves like usual. Makes me wonder how big Legion will actually be.

    Did WoD really turn people off this much? This is first time I've ever seen pre-patch not be super hyped up.
    Uhm, a lot of people have returned. It's noticable everywhere. If you haven't noticed it you're probably just unlucky. I play on four different servers and the cities are packed full of people day and night.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by leayouho View Post
    Why? Order Hall is basically Garrisons without the buildings but still keeping the absolutely disgusting and horrible Mission Table.

    I'm guessing people aren't liking the prune as well. Most classes feel very barren.
    Uninformed: the post.

  10. #370
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elhaym View Post
    I was going to preorder legion when the prepatch was released...

    Then I received a beta invite 2 weeks before the patch. Don't need to resub just to play beta so I was happy to get a completely free sneak peak.

    Now I'm never buying legion.

    They totally screwed my preferred class/spec (going back to late vanilla when I switched mains). I've been peeved about class design before, but since I've already been unsubbed since last October it's easy to say this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Blues haven't responded to my specs official beta feedback thread in MONTHS. But that's typical of blizzard in feedback threads. Why they even make those threads is a mystery.

    At least I'll have a bit of mindless fun when the new Diablo season starts next week. Other than Diablo, I'm currently over blizzards ip's.
    they rarely respond to feedback,.. .because why should they? what will it do? they will read it, but dont respond cause... what are they going to say? a copy post "thanks for providing feedback" ??? and if they have changed your class so much you cant stand it, and are quitting over it, well we wish you luck with whatever game your going to go play, sad you dident decide to change spec, or class
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  11. #371
    Mechagnome
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    Lack of hype is good

    Hype leads to disappointment

    Subs are already rock bottom

    Maybe if Legion actually delivers WoW might see It's first substantial post-launch sub increase since TBC
    Quote Originally Posted by Elementium View Post
    People so addicted that they're actually angry at Blizzard for WoW getting old >.< Insulting WoW because your tired of it is like hating your dad because he's older than you and not as fun as your friends.

  12. #372
    I played pretty hardcore(lots and lots of hours doing pointless but fun stuff) throughout TBC, the first half of wrath, and have played on and off for every expansion. Nostalgia is pretty big role in it i feel, its just not the same WoW those huge sub numbers were playing, even though it is.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    The MMORPG genre in the format WoW uses is old and dead.
    How would you know? There are currently no such games on the market. WoW's core experience has completely changed from vanilla to a point where it only superficially resembles the original.

    The newer gaming generation isn't really interested in a game like WoW. Hence many players are like 30+ now. To reach those 15-20 million subs again they need to revamp the game completely but then you'd loose all it's core players.
    And how would you know that? The "newer gaming generation" has poured tons and tons of time into Minecraft, which has the same core experience than vanilla WoW. At the same time WoW has evolved into something completely different. If WoW had retained it's vanilla core experience while developing it further, it could have captured the Minecraft audience and could be sitting at 15-20 million players today. Instead Blizzard completely misread what the "casuals" want from a game and turned it into something that is failing to attract new players and failing to keep its old core players.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyCola View Post
    How would you know? There are currently no such games on the market. WoW's core experience has completely changed from vanilla to a point where it only superficially resembles the original.



    And how would you know that? The "newer gaming generation" has poured tons and tons of time into Minecraft, which has the same core experience than vanilla WoW. At the same time WoW has evolved into something completely different. If WoW had retained it's vanilla core experience while developing it further, it could have captured the Minecraft audience and could be sitting at 15-20 million players today. Instead Blizzard completely misread what the "casuals" want from a game and turned it into something that is failing to attract new players and failing to keep its old core players.
    Because every game that had tried has failed miserably. Look at Wildstar, the hardcore MMORPG. That ended up well didn't it?

    The core gameplay of WoW is the same as it was in vanilla. A holy trinity hot key based mmo were you level, you raise professions, you raid, do dungeons etc. That's the core of the game, that is what you do in WoW.

    I haven't played a lot of Minecraft but I sure as hell played a lot of vanilla, and in vanilla I couldn't build a whole world out of nothing. The only resembles between vanilla WoW and Minecraft is that you had to grind a lot of you wanted to be a raider.

    WoW is 12 years old and the game format is even older. Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?

    Do I still enjoy WoW? I do, but I also know that the format as it is has lived out it's course.

    Is there a possibility that we'll see an MMORPG with 15-20 millions subs again? Yes, most definitely. But it'll have to be vastly different from the format WoW uses.

  15. #375
    Deleted
    For me this is the first expansion where the hype for me is at 0% , it was really low for WoD aswell but now its just gone completely.

    I thought this would never happen but i actually went ahead and removed my collectors edition pre-order for Legion... i just cant feel any motivation to play WoW anymore...

    There is nothing i like about it anymore, i want the grindy vanilla style so im gonna try to find a MMO with that kind of gameplay, where i feel like i actually accomplished something when i get something done.

    This is a sad day for me.

  16. #376
    WoD happened to the hype.

    So many promises, so many cuts, such little content, flying almost removed entirely and then some bullshit end of expansion achievement added to pretty much make it a lame duck. One actual content patch and a selfie cam.

    That is what happened to the hype.

    Blizzard has lost the trust of it's customers, and while Legion HAS to be better than WoD because it simply cannot be worse, people know that Blizzard is "up to something' and it isn't trying to create the best content possible.

    No PvP gear? No new BGs/Arenas? Remove the camera zoom? No new, cool weapons to aim for at the end of each raid tier? Another system that will be abandoned in the next expansion (artifact weapons)? An expansion long grind with no feeling of goals/achievements (AP)?

    A return of the "Garrison Mission Table" system? Another Pathfinder achievement that does not tell us when we will get flying (mid expansion might very well mean with last content patch).

    A gated progression system that hampers people with lots of time to play and rewards people who play very little at all with insane catchup mechanisms. The same system that makes alts and alt specs less desirable to play.

    2 months in, Legion is going to get a LOT of flack.

    That is what has happened to the hype.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    WoD happened to the hype.

    So many promises, so many cuts, such little content, flying almost removed entirely and then some bullshit end of expansion achievement added to pretty much make it a lame duck. One actual content patch and a selfie cam.

    That is what happened to the hype.

    Blizzard has lost the trust of it's customers, and while Legion HAS to be better than WoD because it simply cannot be worse, people know that Blizzard is "up to something' and it isn't trying to create the best content possible.

    No PvP gear? No new BGs/Arenas? Remove the camera zoom? No new, cool weapons to aim for at the end of each raid tier? Another system that will be abandoned in the next expansion (artifact weapons)? An expansion long grind with no feeling of goals/achievements (AP)?

    A return of the "Garrison Mission Table" system? Another Pathfinder achievement that does not tell us when we will get flying (mid expansion might very well mean with last content patch).

    A gated progression system that hampers people with lots of time to play and rewards people who play very little at all with insane catchup mechanisms. The same system that makes alts and alt specs less desirable to play.

    2 months in, Legion is going to get a LOT of flack.

    That is what has happened to the hype.
    I'd like to say WoD was their wake up call, but in the end I doubt it. I'm hoping they put all they have into Legion, something they haven't done in a very long time for an expansion, because that's what it's going to take.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    Because every game that had tried has failed miserably. Look at Wildstar, the hardcore MMORPG. That ended up well didn't it?
    Wildstar was not like vanilla WoW though, so I'm not sure what your point is. Look at how incredibly successful Nost was, if you want an idea of whether the vanilla core experience still appeals to players or not.

    The core gameplay of WoW is the same as it was in vanilla.
    The core experience of WoW is completely different, to a point where you cannot really call it the same game. Vanilla WoW had a huge world with many things you could choose to do to advance your character at your own pace. Today's WoW has removed all the core characteristics: You no longer have one main that you develop and that takes up the majority of your time, instead everyone has a dozen end-game ready alts that they can choose from. You no longer get to choose your own pace of progression, instead you must raid the same instance at the same time as everyone else. There is no longer end-game progression, you get automatic access to the latest raid tier. Professions don't matter and there is no economy around it anymore (and Blizzard is selling gold). There are no longer meaningful realm communities, instead everything is cross realm. You no longer rely on other people (no threat, no professions, LFG/LFR, etc.) and you can access all the content playing solo.

    The reality is that the game Blizzard calls WoW provides an entirely different core experience than vanilla did.

    WoW is 12 years old and the game format is even older. Why do people have such a hard time understanding that?
    Why do you think that's somehow relevant? There are genres older than that, like FPS.

  19. #379
    Dreadlord lordzed83's Avatar
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    they are back pulling 3-7k dps in random heroics with 3 stacks buff !!!!
    Geme smtn 2 kielllllll.

  20. #380
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    I'd like to say WoD was their wake up call, but in the end I doubt it. I'm hoping they put all they have into Legion, something they haven't done in a very long time for an expansion, because that's what it's going to take.
    Legion looks just like WoD 2.0.
    It's the same stuff with some new zones. It's going to be super disappointing to the people that were already disappoined by WoD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    If there are no such games and WoW changed away from it, wouldn't that mean it's indeed old and dead?
    No. A game like old WoW is just very hard to make and the industry is just kinda stupid. The majority always follows trends and fails with it instead of setting their own. The current WoW would have no players if it didn't have the legacy of old WoW still giving it some relevance. The current game would be a complete flop under a different name.

    You also have to look at what games are popular to dismantle the myth that only casual games can be profitable these days.
    League of Legends: reckless multiplayer game, where you will get shit on if you don't know how to play.
    Dota2: same stoy
    Counter-Strike: same story
    Dark Souls: reckless singleplayer game, where you will get shit on if you don't know how to play
    Path of Exile: reckless multiplayer game, where you will get shit on if you don't know how to play. Much more popular than Diablo3, despite it going casual and despite it having way more production value.
    Last edited by mmocbb854e85f6; 2016-08-02 at 02:56 PM.

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