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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Proskill's Avatar
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    blood elf demon hunters

    all demon hunters - blood elf and night elf alike were put into stasis some time ago (how much exactly?).
    blood elf demon hunters missed the destruction of silvermoon city and the sunwell and actually renaming to blood elves so basically they are high elves right ?

    can someone explain this to me ?

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    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    If you ever played warcraft 3 you would know that blood elves came into contact with illidan after those events. Blood elves came into any contact with illidan during frozen throne, after downfall of silvermoon.
    Last edited by Arrashi; 2016-08-02 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Proskill's Avatar
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    so the stasis (imprisonment in the vault of wardens) was only a couple of years ? for some reason i thought it was hundreds or thousands of years lol

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    so the stasis (imprisonment in the vault of wardens) was only a couple of years ? for some reason i thought it was hundreds or thousands of years lol
    How did you get that idea in the first place? They are Illidari who just came to be after the third war.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    so the stasis (imprisonment in the vault of wardens) was only a couple of years ? for some reason i thought it was hundreds or thousands of years lol
    Nope. The intro quests will make it clear. The first half takes place during the black temple raid, though on a legion world doing a mission. Then they're imprisoned and the second half is shortly after broken shore.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    so the stasis (imprisonment in the vault of wardens) was only a couple of years ? for some reason i thought it was hundreds or thousands of years lol
    no, as far as I know, some of the night elf demon hunters can be thousands of years old, not sure there, but for the blood elves, this was after blood elves joined Illidan in WC3 TFT, and you get to see Illidan start accepting blood elves as demon hunters during TBC. But I think the book Illidan implies all demon hunters NElf and BElf started after Illidan's release and the 3rd war, so these are people, esp NElves that saw the horror of the demons and dedicated their lives to fighting them. IT is hinted by Altruis in Nagrand, that some of the blood elves might be more concerned with gaining power than stopping the evil, at least when referring to Vareidis, but it is a characteristic of their race - Demon hunters are actually pure hearted despite the dark things they deal with.

    and this is probably why they get accepted later on, because in Legion the races get to understand that a few exceptional individuals actually have chosen to bear the burden of fel for power but remain pure of heart in their intention to rid the world of demons. Now their struggle might endear them to be tempted by power and even grow to love power, but despite this ultimately their goal is to see the down fall of the Legion to save their people.

    There seems to be a distinction between the deep fervour of the Demon Hunters that is not letting them get all twisted like say Arthas did. again, i.e. Pure heart - but saying that, not all demon hunters last, and well some can give in and lose that struggle at any moment - so you must always be watchful around them.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Proskill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    no, as far as I know, some of the night elf demon hunters can be thousands of years old, not sure there, but for the blood elves, this was after blood elves joined Illidan in WC3 TFT, and you get to see Illidan start accepting blood elves as demon hunters during TBC. But I think the book Illidan implies all demon hunters NElf and BElf started after Illidan's release and the 3rd war, so these are people, esp NElves that saw the horror of the demons and dedicated their lives to fighting them. IT is hinted by Altruis in Nagrand, that some of the blood elves might be more concerned with gaining power than stopping the evil, at least when referring to Vareidis, but it is a characteristic of their race - Demon hunters are actually pure hearted despite the dark things they deal with.

    and this is probably why they get accepted later on, because in Legion the races get to understand that a few exceptional individuals actually have chosen to bear the burden of fel for power but remain pure of heart in their intention to rid the world of demons. Now their struggle might endear them to be tempted by power and even grow to love power, but despite this ultimately their goal is to see the down fall of the Legion to save their people.

    There seems to be a distinction between the deep fervour of the Demon Hunters that is not letting them get all twisted like say Arthas did. again, i.e. Pure heart - but saying that, not all demon hunters last, and well some can give in and lose that struggle at any moment - so you must always be watchful around them.
    so basically a blood elf or even a night elf could be anything earlier be it paladin, druid or rogue before comitting to become a demon hunter ? since it was just a couple of years recently

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    all demon hunters - blood elf and night elf alike were put into stasis some time ago (how much exactly?).
    blood elf demon hunters missed the destruction of silvermoon city and the sunwell and actually renaming to blood elves so basically they are high elves right ?

    can someone explain this to me ?
    BE Demon hunters only missed events from the siege of black temple moving forward, however the destruction of Silvermoon they're well aware of.


    Even then, an elf could have missed those events and still be a Blood elf, the differences between High elves and Blood elves are not as stark as people believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    so basically a blood elf or even a night elf could be anything earlier be it paladin, druid or rogue before comitting to become a demon hunter ? since it was just a couple of years recently
    Or a shopkeeper, merchant, farmer, wagon driver, etc :P

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levaustian View Post
    Or a shopkeeper, merchant, farmer, wagon driver, etc :P
    Normally I'm all for the average Joe background, but the Illidari did not pick average Joes for DH training.

    only 1 in every 5 elves lives to become a DH, that's the same 75%-80% Drop out rate that they Navy Seals have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    no, as far as I know, some of the night elf demon hunters can be thousands of years old, not sure there, but for the blood elves, this was after blood elves joined Illidan in WC3 TFT, and you get to see Illidan start accepting blood elves as demon hunters during TBC. But I think the book Illidan implies all demon hunters NElf and BElf started after Illidan's release and the 3rd war, so these are people, esp NElves that saw the horror of the demons and dedicated their lives to fighting them. IT is hinted by Altruis in Nagrand, that some of the blood elves might be more concerned with gaining power than stopping the evil, at least when referring to Vareidis, but it is a characteristic of their race - Demon hunters are actually pure hearted despite the dark things they deal with.

    and this is probably why they get accepted later on, because in Legion the races get to understand that a few exceptional individuals actually have chosen to bear the burden of fel for power but remain pure of heart in their intention to rid the world of demons. Now their struggle might endear them to be tempted by power and even grow to love power, but despite this ultimately their goal is to see the down fall of the Legion to save their people.

    There seems to be a distinction between the deep fervour of the Demon Hunters that is not letting them get all twisted like say Arthas did. again, i.e. Pure heart - but saying that, not all demon hunters last, and well some can give in and lose that struggle at any moment - so you must always be watchful around them.
    Illysanna Ravencrest is more then 10 thousand years old and she is a Demon Hunter. she was imprisoned in the Vault of the Wardesn shortly after WotA. she is probably the first Demon Hunter, excluding Illidan although its possible that she became DH during TBC. that's doubtful because she was imprisoned in the Vault of the Wardens shortly after WotA.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2016-08-02 at 08:27 PM.

  12. #12
    PC Demon Hunters (and most NPC Demon Hunters) are sent on a mission by Illidan that takes place during the assault on the Black Temple in TBC. By the time you return; the assault is over, and you are captured by Maiev and friends, and imprisoned in the Vault of the Wardens.

    So this would all be happening however many years ago TBC took place in the lore.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Highlord Hanibuhl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    Normally I'm all for the average Joe background, but the Illidari did not pick average Joes for DH training.

    only 1 in every 5 elves lives to become a DH, that's the same 75%-80% Drop out rate that they Navy Seals have.
    Exactly.. so I guess it was the best of the best gifted warriors of Quel'Thalas and Darnassus!

  14. #14
    So it's especially weird that the Demon Hunters get out of the vault, the last thing they knew having been that the Naaru's foolish helper monkeys were sabotaging their master's plans, and that Khadgar was the Naaru's errand boy, and now suddenly go with him to Dalaran with no questions asked, when the last they knew of Dalaran, it was the place where all of the Blood Elves with Kael'thas were nearly executed by Garithos while the Kirin Tor and rest of the Alliance there did nothing.

    So the demon hunters should not trust Khadgar or Dalaran at all, definitely not enough to go there and be Khadgar's helper monkeys.

    But Blizzard likes to pretend humans and the Kirin Tor and Dalaran are masters of diplomacy and are the best magic users out there, so they write everyone else as just going along with whatever they say, or in Aethas, the Sunreavers, and all the Blood Elves' case, throwing themselves at the feet of the Kirin Tor to be their helper monkeys again after being betrayed a second time with no apology and seemingly no remorse, and even thinking the Blood Elves were at fault, because the Council of Six taking responsibility for its inaction when one of its members blatantly disregarded the laws of Dalaran would make the Kirin Tor seem at fault, and Blizzard wants them to look like the perfect do-gooders who can do no wrong.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoadbearer View Post
    So it's especially weird that the Demon Hunters get out of the vault, the last thing they knew having been that the Naaru's foolish helper monkeys were sabotaging their master's plans, and that Khadgar was the Naaru's errand boy, and now suddenly go with him to Dalaran with no questions asked, when the last they knew of Dalaran, it was the place where all of the Blood Elves with Kael'thas were nearly executed by Garithos while the Kirin Tor and rest of the Alliance there did nothing.

    So the demon hunters should not trust Khadgar or Dalaran at all, definitely not enough to go there and be Khadgar's helper monkeys.

    But Blizzard likes to pretend humans and the Kirin Tor and Dalaran are masters of diplomacy and are the best magic users out there, so they write everyone else as just going along with whatever they say, or in Aethas, the Sunreavers, and all the Blood Elves' case, throwing themselves at the feet of the Kirin Tor to be their helper monkeys again after being betrayed a second time with no apology and seemingly no remorse, and even thinking the Blood Elves were at fault, because the Council of Six taking responsibility for its inaction when one of its members blatantly disregarded the laws of Dalaran would make the Kirin Tor seem at fault, and Blizzard wants them to look like the perfect do-gooders who can do no wrong.
    I -think- what Blizzard was going for is not that the Illidari suddenly forgave Khadgar and the forces of Shattrath, but instead they prioritize the Legion threat over personal grudges.

    Or it could be sloppy bullshit writing, you never really fucking know with Blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    I -think- what Blizzard was going for is not that the Illidari suddenly forgave Khadgar and the forces of Shattrath, but instead they prioritize the Legion threat over personal grudges.

    Or it could be sloppy bullshit writing, you never really fucking know with Blizzard.
    That's what everyone says in order to explain away the whole "Horde are in Dalaran again after the Kirin Tor showed exactly how it felt about any Horde-affiliates like not even a year ago" thing, but the thing is, Blizzard never shows that in-game. They just show the Blood Elves being simpering pitiful asshats crawling back to the Kirin Tor when the Kirin Tor are so egocentric that they believe

    1. all the Sunreavers are to blame for the Purge

    2. don't find a blood elf willingly committing treason by handing over a priceless royal family heirloom historical national treasure of Quel'thalas to be enough proof of his obviously greater loyalty to Dalaran and the humans over his own people and homeland

    3. ask how they can be sure he won't betray them again

    4. and then Aethas sits there nodding and agreeing when the no-name dickmonkey from the Dark Riders comic says "if he weren't trustworthy, he'd have given the sword to one of his own Sunreavers."


    So recovering something that belongs to your people and returning it to your people is untrustworthy. Okay. Then frost and arcane mages who find Alodi's and Aegwynn's staves should hand them over to the Burning Legion then, right? By the Kirin Tor's own logic, finding something that belongs to your kingdom and happily committing treason against your entire nation to be a second-class citizen with their worst enemy is A-OK!

    I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't for the part in Aethas' journal in the Felo'melorn quest chain that proves it's not just him, where it says that ALL of the Sunreavers believe as he and the Council of Six do, that it was all their own fault, and they're the ones who have to make reparations, and they're also tripping over each other to rejoin the Kirin Tor and be the humans' dogs fetching their slippers and newspaper and peeing outside.

    The implications here are that the Blood Elves are inferior to the humans in every single way imaginable if they're willing to overlook the Kirin Tor proving THREE TIMES that they DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE BLOOD ELVES.

    1. Doing nothing while Garithos slated for execution their most powerful and noble heroic 15% who were there for the sole purpose of HELPING THE HUMANS. And Modera and Ansirem are both still on the Council.

    2. Doing nothing again while Jaina took Aethas' rightful statement that Dalaran was the Blood Elves' home too and that Jaina had no right to force them to leave, especially not without a meeting of the Council of Six to decide. This resulted in the murders, assault, and wrongful imprisonment of innocent civilians, as well as innocent combatants just defending themselves when the Silver Covenant expect them to take their word for it that the racist crazy Horde-hating Council of Six member said they could arrest the Sunreavers. That would be like the KKK walking up to a black person and saying "Hey, the president said we could arrest you, just trust us." and expecting the black person to just go along with it. Yeah. Not gonna happen.

    3. Then they willingly went along with Jaina's spiteful pursuit of the Blood Elves on the Isle of Thunder, claiming the Blood Elves were only there to kill the Thunder King for his loot, not to save Pandaria, and this was apparently evil of them and they had to be stopped. Then Jaina proved it by...claiming his loot...when the Pandaren said it was too dangerous and had to be destroyed. And Jaina didn't spout off a lot of idealistic nonsense about killing Lei Shen to save Pandaria either. Most of her words were to the effect of "the best part is that the Blood Elves don't get any of this stuff." And Modera herself was sadistically pleased at the thought of the Saurok killing Horde.

    4. Now in Legion, Modera is suddenly an advocate for the Blood Elves' return to Dalaran. Okay. And the Council has made it clear that they see the Blood Elves as the ones at fault for the Purge. I guess for...having someone in their ranks who wasn't completely loyal who acted without the knowledge of anyone else until it was too late for Aethas to do anything about it, with his entire race threatened with death?

    And yet the Blood Elves still want to be in Dalaran.

    At least in WotLK, they were there because the Kirin Tor needed them. In Legion, the Blood Elves have absolutely no incentive to be in Dalaran now, yet they're presented as though the Kirin Tor give off some powerful pheromone the Blood Elves are addicted to more than they ever were to magic, and if they go too long without the Kirin Tor's help on anything, they'll die.


    Blizzard just can't seem to make anyone look good at anything, unless they take the foremost expert on that area, and make them completely dependent on the humans for it. In this case, magic. The thing that saturates every aspect of the Blood Elves' lives, that they study for hundreds or thousands of years. And they're always dependent on the almighty all-knowing 30-year old human magi of Dalaran.

    So yeah. Not happy with Blizzard's treatment of Blood Elves lately.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Twistedelmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatolic View Post
    so the stasis (imprisonment in the vault of wardens) was only a couple of years ? for some reason i thought it was hundreds or thousands of years lol
    that was just Illidan, the Illidari was just imprisoned after 'we' raided Black temple.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    no, as far as I know, some of the night elf demon hunters can be thousands of years old, not sure there, but for the blood elves, this was after blood elves joined Illidan in WC3 TFT, and you get to see Illidan start accepting blood elves as demon hunters during TBC. But I think the book Illidan implies all demon hunters NElf and BElf started after Illidan's release and the 3rd war, so these are people, esp NElves that saw the horror of the demons and dedicated their lives to fighting them. IT is hinted by Altruis in Nagrand, that some of the blood elves might be more concerned with gaining power than stopping the evil, at least when referring to Vareidis, but it is a characteristic of their race - Demon hunters are actually pure hearted despite the dark things they deal with.

    and this is probably why they get accepted later on, because in Legion the races get to understand that a few exceptional individuals actually have chosen to bear the burden of fel for power but remain pure of heart in their intention to rid the world of demons. Now their struggle might endear them to be tempted by power and even grow to love power, but despite this ultimately their goal is to see the down fall of the Legion to save their people.

    There seems to be a distinction between the deep fervour of the Demon Hunters that is not letting them get all twisted like say Arthas did. again, i.e. Pure heart - but saying that, not all demon hunters last, and well some can give in and lose that struggle at any moment - so you must always be watchful around them.
    I think Illidan didn't start to train new Demon Hunters till after he was ventured through the dark portal.

  18. #18
    we've been in stasis for about 4.5 years

  19. #19
    Epic! Enthralled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twistedelmo View Post
    I think Illidan didn't start to train new Demon Hunters till after he was ventured through the dark portal.
    He trained a small number of night elves in the period between his release from imprisonment and heading to Outland.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    Normally I'm all for the average Joe background, but the Illidari did not pick average Joes for DH training.

    only 1 in every 5 elves lives to become a DH, that's the same 75%-80% Drop out rate that they Navy Seals have.
    Going by the info in the book, Illidan trained by what he saw in a person's potential, not by their background. Vandel, the DH we follow in the book, was a simple villager in Ashenvale who killed a felhunter with a knife. Illidan happened to come across the village under attack and kill the rest of the demons, witness what Vandel had done, and offered to take him on as a student right then and there. (Vandel was too maddened by grief to understand what was happening to take him up on the offer.)

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthralled View Post
    Going by the info in the book, Illidan trained by what he saw in a person's potential, not by their background. Vandel, the DH we follow in the book, was a simple villager in Ashenvale who killed a felhunter with a knife. Illidan happened to come across the village under attack and kill the rest of the demons, witness what Vandel had done, and offered to take him on as a student right then and there. (Vandel was too maddened by grief to understand what was happening to take him up on the offer.)
    Right, I guess what I mean is as a Blood elf Demon Hunter you were pooled from a military force, not a civilian force. Like in Vandel's case Illidan came across his village as you said. You really have more flexability playing a NE Demon Hunter than you do a Bloodelf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
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