Why doesn't Bolvar just surrender the Helm of Domination?

[Justpassing]

You know, unless he's planning a dick move in the end? The player DK can just wear the Helm and command the scourge to fight against the Legion. They've expressly said that this time Legion means fucking business and it's now or never; so why hold back? Civilian casualties, well shit, people die in war. That's a given.

But I mean why risk losing against the Legion? Why would you not want the biggest, deadliest and most ruthless fighting force on Azeroth on your side against your biggest enemy ever?

[Deleted]

Considering that sending all the undead under his command was what he intended on doing, why should he give the helm to the player for that? He didn't do it because the Ebon Blade made a deal with him, to work as his armed forces against the legion, in return for him keeping all the mindless undead under his command in Northrend. Also, considering the path he's heading down, which is sort of hinted at during the class campaign, the helm might not exactly be the best thing in the world to be around.

[Raikh]

Honestly if we used everything at our disposal which we should have according to the last expansion i doubt would've won the broken shore or even had us sneaking around collecting the world pillars.

The scourge is just one thing. During MoP Jaina charged her staff with Lei Shens power and that power is Aman'thuls soul according to chronicles and Wrathion told us that Lei Shens power was great enough to create worlds, so thats a pretty big deal.
The blood elves attained the technology to create and control Anima Golems, which are powered by the blood of Ra-Den and are pretty scary things and they also have sunwell for magic shenangians.
Then we have mana bombs, which are basically magic nukes. We also have the focussing iris for that matter which is another powerful magic source.

Me'dan who is also laughably powerful by lore should also be around but apparently there seems to be something more important than the legion attacking.

All in all we have or should have an enormous amount of power which we simply dont use in legion because for gameplay reasons. We simply wouldnt have enough to do if we went all out on the legion, unless the big bads themselves ar eon our doorstep.

[Project 501D13R]

Me'dan who is also laughably powerful by lore should also be around but apparently there seems to be something more important than the legion attacking.

Me'dan has basically been ret conned out of existence.
Only instead on an official ret con blizz is just pretending he never existed in the first place.

[Deleted]

Me'dan has basically been ret conned out of existence.
Only instead on an official ret con blizz is just pretending he never existed in the first place.

They didn't retcon him. He's just as canon as always. He's, like they've said, "out doing important stuff"

[Tzalix]

Although not considered entirely canon, the Manual of Monsters state that the Helm of Domination cannot simply be "passed", the Lich King must be killed before another can pick up the helm and gain the powers and become the new Lich King.

Furthermore, and this is canon, the Helm of Domination also contains the spirit of Ner'zhul. To wield the helmet also means battling Ner'zhul for control. Arthas did manage to subdue him and become dominant, but it is likely that Ner'zhul remains within it and Bolvar has most certainly been fighting him for control ever since he became the Lich King. He basically took it upon himself to contain Ner'zhul so the Scourge would not run rampant.

I would not be surprised at all if Bolvar shows up in Legion, having gained control over Ner'zhul and using the Scourge to battle the Legion. Remember that it was Kil'jaeden who created the Lich King, but Ner'zhul betrayed him once he had the powers. He's probably still a bit pissed about that, so he will likely be going after both us and the Lich King.

[Deleted]

Honestly if we used everything at our disposal which we should have according to the last expansion i doubt would've won the broken shore or even had us sneaking around collecting the world pillars.

The scourge is just one thing. During MoP Jaina charged her staff with Lei Shens power and that power is Aman'thuls soul according to chronicles and Wrathion told us that Lei Shens power was great enough to create worlds, so thats a pretty big deal.
The blood elves attained the technology to create and control Anima Golems, which are powered by the blood of Ra-Den and are pretty scary things and they also have sunwell for magic shenangians.
Then we have mana bombs, which are basically magic nukes. We also have the focussing iris for that matter which is another powerful magic source.

Me'dan who is also laughably powerful by lore should also be around but apparently there seems to be something more important than the legion attacking.

All in all we have or should have an enormous amount of power which we simply dont use in legion because for gameplay reasons. We simply wouldnt have enough to do if we went all out on the legion, unless the big bads themselves ar eon our doorstep.

good points you have. sunwell, anima golems, jainas staff, mana bombs maybe?. and the scourges full might.

[Redroniksre]

They didn't retcon him. He's just as canon as always. He's, like they've said, "out doing important stuff"

Like the guy said, they havn't official retconned him, but i high, HIGHLY doubt you will ever see him again.

[Kank]

nice, this is what I need

[Justpassing]

Honestly if we used everything at our disposal which we should have according to the last expansion i doubt would've won the broken shore or even had us sneaking around collecting the world pillars.

The scourge is just one thing. During MoP Jaina charged her staff with Lei Shens power and that power is Aman'thuls soul according to chronicles and Wrathion told us that Lei Shens power was great enough to create worlds, so thats a pretty big deal.
The blood elves attained the technology to create and control Anima Golems, which are powered by the blood of Ra-Den and are pretty scary things and they also have sunwell for magic shenangians.
Then we have mana bombs, which are basically magic nukes. We also have the focussing iris for that matter which is another powerful magic source.

Me'dan who is also laughably powerful by lore should also be around but apparently there seems to be something more important than the legion attacking.

All in all we have or should have an enormous amount of power which we simply dont use in legion because for gameplay reasons. We simply wouldnt have enough to do if we went all out on the legion, unless the big bads themselves ar eon our doorstep.

This is what I'm talking about, full-on brutality. I mean the same shit could've been done for the Iron Horde, we could've just thrown in a couple of Mana Bombs. It sounds simple but I'm working with what's in the fucking lore; why hold back when your -entire- world is in danger?

It's pretty much as if Aliens with 10,000 years worth more technology suddenly appears to wipe the life off Earth's face and the people going "Ehh...let's just not send Americans to the battle, they are too wild." or "Let's just not nuke them, we might have casualties".

I know Warcraft universe is fiction and an amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary to hold the coherence of the story together, but this getting more absurd by the expansion. First, the biggest threat so far Iron Horde, and now Legion. I get the gameplay reasons part of it but why spin a story so if your game can't support it?

[Jonnusthegreat]

Like the guy said, they havn't official retconned him, but i high, HIGHLY doubt you will ever see him again.

Did we ever actually see him? Doesn't ring a bell to me. I knew Medivh had a kid but I don't remember him being important or involved in any way.

[Sorshen]

Did we ever actually see him? Doesn't ring a bell to me. I knew Medivh had a kid but I don't remember him being important or involved in any way.

He's not ingame, and he was considered the Guardian of Tirisfal before Legion's retcon. It's pretty official.

[Puddlejumper]

Not really convinced anyone could ever say the Iron Horde was the biggest threat ever, in any context. Garrosh went to Draenor with the idea of forging a Horde that could compete with Azeroth, but the reality is that the lore of WoD has the entire Iron Horde being beaten into submission by a relatively small squad of Azerothian heroes, and a whole lot of Draenor natives. I don't think anyone ever took the Iron Horde super seriously as an existential threat the way the Legion is. I mean, come on. The Iron Horde never even managed to take over their own world, let alone the one they decided so ill-advisedly to invade.

WoD was always intended to be a transitional narrative that brought characters like Gul'dan and Kil'Jaeden back into relevance. The fact that it ended up taking so long to get here was a mistake, it shouldn't be taken to mean that the Iron Horde was actually important.

[Saverem]

Main reason would be gameplay. Giving DK class dominion over all undead in the game will literally break balance. They'd have to give the helmet to an NPC because it's way too powerful lore-wise for any playable DK to control.

Would be like giving Priests power over an Old God, Warlocks power over Kael'Thas, Mages power over time traveling, etc.

[Eats Compost]

It's pretty heavily implied that, even disregarding stuff like the spirit of Ner'zhul, the Helm of Domination is one of those corrupts-the-user deals. It's not exactly surprising; it was made by the Legion, after all.

If someone with good intentions put on that helmet with the intent of embracing its power and making the Scourge fight the Legion, they'd probably be overwhelmed and become evil in no time. There could be all kinds of explanations that get us to that end result, but I don't think that we can ever have a good Lich King that isn't constantly struggling just to hold the Scourge back.

- - - Updated - - -

I would not be surprised at all if Bolvar shows up in Legion, having gained control over Ner'zhul and using the Scourge to battle the Legion. Remember that it was Kil'jaeden who created the Lich King, but Ner'zhul betrayed him once he had the powers. He's probably still a bit pissed about that, so he will likely be going after both us and the Lich King.

It's technically a spoiler, but Bolvar is heavily featured in the Death Knight order hall campaign, and he's more or less using the player character as his means of fighting the Burning Legion. Unless I'm mistaken, he's the one who clues us in on where to get our artifacts in the first place, and he has a heavy hand in the creation of one of them.

[Deleted]

I can take it But a frozen scone would be nice too.

[Hctaz]

It's pretty heavily implied that, even disregarding stuff like the spirit of Ner'zhul, the Helm of Domination is one of those corrupts-the-user deals. It's not exactly surprising; it was made by the Legion, after all.

If someone with good intentions put on that helmet with the intent of embracing its power and making the Scourge fight the Legion, they'd probably be overwhelmed and become evil in no time. There could be all kinds of explanations that get us to that end result, but I don't think that we can ever have a good Lich King that isn't constantly struggling just to hold the Scourge back.

From what I can tell from the implications of the whole ICC events, it would seem that even a good individual just becomes immediately corrupted by the helmet and whatever spirits reside inside of it. Bolvar has no reason to destroy humanity but it seems as if he's just another Lich King. He wants the Legion destroyed because they caused his existence to be what it is, not because he's a good guy. It's not any different than what Ner'Zhul or Arthas did as the Lich King, they just had significantly more power during their time. Their goals were essentially to kill and unify everything that they could in order to fight the legion. It just so happened that we didn't really want to all die so... yanno... gotta stop that from happening. There is also the fact that Ner'Zhul was pretty power hungry after being corrupted by the Skull of Gul'dan so... that probably didn't help. Had he been the same ole guy he was when he was trying to protect the orcs from the demon corruption then he might have actually just been helpful. Nobody would willingly die for him but had he just sat on the throne and raised the fallen heroes to fight again I mean... as much as they were abominations, I don't think too many people would have minded if they were all fighting on the same side and their deaths were clearly not intentionally caused by the Lich King.

[LegendaryDude]

So, here's the thing i never got about that whole bolvar/helmet/"allways a lich king" deal. There needs to allways be a lich king to keep the scourge in check, right? So why doesn't he simply order all remaining (braindead) members of the scourge into icecrowns large basin, and we drop a couple bombs on them, or have some mages weave firestorms for a day, so that there simply is no more scourge that needs to be controlled? The scourge would be out of the picture, bolvar could die in peace, the helmet could be sealed away, and all's good.

[Protean]

Not really convinced anyone could ever say the Iron Horde was the biggest threat ever, in any context. Garrosh went to Draenor with the idea of forging a Horde that could compete with Azeroth, but the reality is that the lore of WoD has the entire Iron Horde being beaten into submission by a relatively small squad of Azerothian heroes, and a whole lot of Draenor natives. I don't think anyone ever took the Iron Horde super seriously as an existential threat the way the Legion is. I mean, come on. The Iron Horde never even managed to take over their own world, let alone the one they decided so ill-advisedly to invade.

WoD was always intended to be a transitional narrative that brought characters like Gul'dan and Kil'Jaeden back into relevance. The fact that it ended up taking so long to get here was a mistake, it shouldn't be taken to mean that the Iron Horde was actually important.

Technically it's a relatively small squad of Azerothian heroes with new more modern and powerful equipment / training / magic.

Basically like that movie where a large battleship travels back in time and fights off, by modern standards, ancient technology.


Power overwhelming.

[Deleted]

So, here's the thing i never got about that whole bolvar/helmet/"allways a lich king" deal. There needs to allways be a lich king to keep the scourge in check, right? So why doesn't he simply order all remaining (braindead) members of the scourge into icecrowns large basin, and we drop a couple bombs on them, or have some mages weave firestorms for a day, so that there simply is no more scourge that needs to be controlled? The scourge would be out of the picture, bolvar could die in peace, the helmet could be sealed away, and all's good.

Stop messing blizzards "perfect world" xD