Clawing Shadows Stealth Nerfed

[Drakonskyr]

It's nice the acknowledge it, but it doesn't mean both specs will be that way. It's nice to hear, but that means both specs should be doing more damage than all specs but equal to rets when on target as far as melee goes. I can guarantee that won't be the case.

Yeah, well... yeah. I know it's a bit of wishful thinking, which is why I say we're supposed to hit harder. But were all things fair, then there should be no reason not to expect both dps specs of Death Knight to be the hardest-hitting melee specs on a patchwerk-style encounter in the game. At the very least I'd say in light of this Frost is due for some buffs.

[Alucarde]

It was 200%, is now 150%. Thats a 25% overall loss.

Right, maths misintepretation on my part.


Regarding the Clawing Shadows (CS) talent tier,

I think we can all agree that this talent tier is about DPS boost. There is a theme that I (my own opinion) see with the three talents: Unholy Frenzy (Haste). Castigator (Crit) and CS (Mastery). The talents appear to work with specific secondary stats.


Regarding the OP-ness of Clawing Shadows (CS),

I don't think it is OP to have a talent that improves DPS. It should be a DPS increase and not a decrease for picking a DPS talent. The range is the icing on the cake, but it is the pure shadow damage (which scales to mastery) that attracted me to the talent.

Devs can rework CS to a passive that says "Your Scourge Strike now does pure shadow damage, and scales to 200% weapon damage." (pre-nerf damage, no range) and I would still gladly pick it. I have more mastery than crit, so it would make sense for me to pick it.

There is also the opportunity cost for picking one talent over others: you don't benefit from the other unpicked talents. Castigator is also a DPS increase talent, so there is no reason why CS cannot be a DPS increase.

[Rothulean1]

Their twitter post clearly shows that having great damage + range wasnt going to happen. So now we get range, but crap damage.

[Puzzony]

Right, maths misintepretation on my part.


Regarding the Clawing Shadows (CS) talent tier,

I think we can all agree that this talent tier is about DPS boost. There is a theme that I (my own opinion) see with the three talents: Unholy Frenzy (Haste). Castigator (Crit) and CS (Mastery). The talents appear to work with specific secondary stats.


Regarding the OP-ness of Clawing Shadows (CS),

I don't think it is OP to have a talent that improves DPS. It should be a DPS increase and not a decrease for picking a DPS talent. The range is the icing on the cake, but it is the pure shadow damage (which scales to mastery) that attracted me to the talent.

Devs can rework CS to a passive that says "Your Scourge Strike now does pure shadow damage, and scales to 200% weapon damage." (pre-nerf damage, no range) and I would still gladly pick it. I have more mastery than crit, so it would make sense for me to pick it.

There is also the opportunity cost for picking one talent over others: you don't benefit from the other unpicked talents. Castigator is also a DPS increase talent, so there is no reason why CS cannot be a DPS increase.

UF is giving attack speed, not haste.

- - - Updated - - -

Seems like we have confirmation for the removal of DA , but they will also reduce the cd of WW to 45 sec , hopefully 30 sec for unholy when talented. https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...56306579476481

The hotfix is in, WW is 30 sec CD with talent.

[Galathir]

The hotfix is in, WW is 30 sec CD with talent.

Live on EU too.

This is bullshit. I was defending the CS-nerf but I am absolutely unsympathetic to this change.
Just now I am seriously considering rolling Havoc.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Live on EU too.

This is bullshit. I was defending the CS-nerf but I am absolutely unsympathetic to this change.
Just now I am seriously considering rolling Havoc.

Yeah, I agree ... bullshit doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Tyrannica]

well, that totally blows. I thought at least unholy was the savior of the whole friggin dk class, since frost dks are really looking dull now.

And unholy was allready silence nerfed before those recent OBNOXIOUS silence nerfs, or why should it be amusing to not heal your pet anymore with coils? it does die pretty quickly in the prepatch at least and this in PvE 5 man mythics only!

And i am not going to talk about the miss of blood presence in the pvp section of things, where its dearly missed, along with the cut off heals there is indeed only that cadaver shield absorb mechanic to use for. Maybe since this might be too powerful macroed together with huddle they might nerf this, too.

And i am afraid, blizz nerfed the passive movement speed of unholy so it does not compete too much with the frost spec. -.-

Ideally, there might be a new selfheal design incoming for dks, because it feels wrong to play a tanky and immobile class without any good ones. I hope its this, because otherwise the class designers of the DK are out of their mind.

Not that i planned to main one in legion, because 7 years of silent nerf design is enough, while quite some other classes remain unnerfed where a nerf is due.

[Zetsumai258i]

"Death Knights are meant to have lower mobility then other classes, but feel very strong once they're in range"

This statement is just laughable because as soon as we feel we do good damage we get nerfed behind high mobile classes. What exactly is the point of these changes other than pissing everyone off?

No smart DPS would ever use Wraith Walk if they can reapply there diseases + Epidemic from range if they have more then 3 runes available.

So I guess their next step is to nerf Epidemic into the ground. Maybe they'll be more secretive about it this time and leave the tooltip unchanged.

[Tyrannica]

Seems like we have confirmation for the removal of DA , but they will also reduce the cd of WW to 45 sec , hopefully 30 sec for unholy when talented. https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...56306579476481

Stupid WW is bugged, i saw it not working on flat grounds sometimes, DA was 100% more reliable. Oh, well warrior was planned anyways for legion an example how a plate class can be mobile and truly melee.

About the CS nerf:

Taking away the ranged aspect with nonsense like this won't do good for the UH gameplay and wonders why not taking the boring frost spec again if its just get slightly buffed that is.

[Rothulean1]

Are we particularly strong when we get on a mob? I havent had a chance to raid test since the recent changes.

[Grimskull22]

Are we particularly strong when we get on a mob? I havent had a chance to raid test since the recent changes.

apparently, yeah. we're still nipping at the heels of the top 5 or so on most fights apparently.

[Rothulean1]

Does that apply to both frost and unholy?

[Galathir]

Does that apply to both frost and unholy?

No, Frost is worse off than Unholy. Thus it gets the WW buff without the drawback Unholy has. Hooray for balancing...

[cRawmode]

This feels so wrong and bad. Do we good DPS currently? Yes? Are we better than any other melee that has way more mobility? No.

[Rothulean1]

Youd think Ret, Unholy and Frost having the worst mobility would equate to highest on-target dps. Not to say we arent strong. But strongest?

[Deleted]

Shit, this really pisses me off. Back to being a snail. First my hunter now this.

[Coldvibes]

Just do as history dictates:

Roll a pure.

[Adlian]

"Death Knights are meant to have lower mobility then other classes, but feel very strong once they're in range"

Im hearing this statement since Wotlk but once Death Knights end up doing sightly better than usual they are getting nerfed to the ground. As you can see they already nerfed CS, now they nerfed our mobility. I dont expect any buffs in return.

[Deleted]

Im hearing this statement since Wotlk but once Death Knights end up doing sightly better than usual they are getting nerfed to the ground. As you can see they already nerfed CS, now they nerfed our mobility. I dont expect any buffs in return.

We don't need any buffs. Unholy is fine as it is.

[Deleted]

Just got two questions;-
1. Has AWS actually been touched/buffed? Can't seem to find any blue post saying it has.
2. Has choice of weapon changed since the CS nerf?

Any input would be appreciated