New Mark of Honor system blows :(

[bloodmoth13]

You don't lose out on gear, win or lose you get gear/gold, but only winners get marks of honor that can be used to buy any gear sold by vendors (xmogs) that is what all this is about - sadly..

Pretty sure you only get loot boxes from winning, atleast that has been the case for me leveling my warlock, though i havent played pvp max level yet so i could be wrong here

[Kazuchika]

Nah you get boxes for losing too.

[Deleted]

Losing should not award anything. Did you ever get loot because you wiped 100 times at the same boss? Same here. Try to win or just stay where you are.

I am extremely happy that since this system was implemented I have yet to see the random prick who says "lose fast and go to next game". There is no next game. There is THIS game and you have to win it.

GG system.

A boss isn't another player. The same rules don't apply.

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Wow, so much fuss about a system that as is will be around for less than a month. Losing shouldn't be rewarded, that's the spirit of "sport". Winners get the glory and spoils etc, the losers get to try again. There's no fucking way a winning team/athlete shares the trophy with the losing party. There are no participation trophies or rewards to help make them feel better about " wasting " an entire season. They lose, end of story. And this isn't bad design by Blizz. If players would rather lose quick for a little something rather than actually try since losing is easier, that's all on the players. But, this is societies mentality today, people want more for less and will come up with any type of reasoning to justify it.

This would make sense if the match-making system was fair. But its not.

[Pvp guy]

It does make sense, I think you're still trying to justify it. And fair is found in RBGs, we're talking randoms. Emphasis on the random. I've been in bgs where we get crushed by a solid premade but I've also been in bgs where we crush their premade. I've been in bgs where we have 3 heals and they have none and we lose, and vice versa. That's why it's random bgs, and it's still entirely on the players to try and win. But yes I will concede that sometimes the match making makes that almost impossible

[Stormspellz]

Irony: this system isn't new.

You used to buy PvP gear with marks from BGs.

you still got marks for losing back in the day. While wining should be rewarded the nature of randoms makes it simply unfun to not be rewarded for time spent, of course this is a temporary situation as the marks are meant for mogg gear only

[Otimus]

Pretty sure you only get loot boxes from winning, atleast that has been the case for me leveling my warlock, though i havent played pvp max level yet so i could be wrong here

Pre 100, it doesn't give anything for losing except XP. At 100, it rewards them for losing.

[klaps_05]

Even if they don't add anything for losing they need to up the winning marks, 1 a win is just so awful. And add more mark rewards for longer bg's ioc/av/ashran.

the classic 3 marks for win 1 for loss from back in the day seems fine. i would even accept if they fully bring back the marks, it used to be fun collecting them.

[Thelxi]

Yeah it's terrible. First the stupid boxes and now this. They managed after all to spread RNG cancer to PvP too. But hey we are in the minority, most people think casinos in MMOs are fun.

[DrStiglit]

I haven't been into PvP since season 3 and I suck at it. But I like the new system. How is anyone supposed to improve when no one is trying and just wants to lose asap? This way if I keep putting effort into it I'll get better at least.

[Eats Compost]

I don't really like the new system. Win requirements obviously work well in small group environments (like arena) and organized group environments (like rated BGs), but random BGs? Not so much. I haven't been in a single BG tight enough to feel like I, personally, could make a difference. That just makes the Mark of Honor reward feel like a roll of the die to see what teammates I get.

Obviously this will all be offset a bit by the honor system coming back at 110. Still, I think it'd feel a lot better if a losing player still had a chance to get one, based on the type of lockbox they got. Losing feeling terrible is one thing if we're looking at a system with proper matchmaking/ranking and high individual impact, but it's another entirely in WoW BGs.

[Pickynerd]

random BGs are the equivalent of LFR in terms of content
in LFR you can afk and get full gear, in BG you can do the same

so implying that any sort of personal skill matters even in the slightest, or "those who want to win" get the gear is just a logical fallacy.






you still dont get it do you? it doesnt matter if i try or not, random BGs are a coin flip, it's physically impossible to carry 14 idiots unless you're a healer or a warlock, it doesnt matter how hard you try at best itll give you like an extra 5% winrate

also your entire argument so far has been a cherry pick so yeah... i just shortened it cos that's what your post boiled down to.

/sigh

My entire argument has been this: promoting losing is bad.

Cherry pick away.

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Winning has never been as good as losing for PvP. People are just asking for some semblance of progress for putting the effort and time into it. Even in dungeons if you fail to beat the final boss, you still get XP, trash drops, and a little gold out of it.

The system now is temporary, yet people want to gut it already for their precious mog gear.

[bloodmoth13]

Pre 100, it doesn't give anything for losing except XP. At 100, it rewards them for losing.

ah, so im seeing things a little differently then.

Well in that case, if the only bonus for winning is xmog gear, then its really not that big a deal imo, in that case the alliance will just be better dressed.

[Ryxxi]

I like this change, can exploit it by joining BG's and leaving if they look bad and joining another one on a new char, completely ignoring deserter debuff.

[Osmeric]

Nah you get boxes for losing too.

If they are anything like the loser boxes in WoD, they will be almost entirely worthless.

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/sigh

My entire argument has been this: promoting losing is bad.

Cherry pick away.

Yes, that is your argument, and it's a stupid and clueless one.

Losers in PvP are vital. Without players willing to lose, PvP falls apart.

If players are performing a service for the game (in this case, allowing the winners their ego/gear reward), then unless those players are rewarded this service will be underprovided. Blizzard needs to pay the losers adequately for the service, being punching bags, they are providing.

If you argue that losers don't deserve to be rewarded, then we can counter that Blizzard doesn't deserve the losers' business. This moralistic approach leads to participation collapse as those judged undeserving stop playing. We've seen this happen many times in PvP; you have to be deliberately dense not to understand how it can happen again.

Casual PvP participation is very likely going to collapse in Legion, not just because of losers getting nothing, but because of unrated players getting very little even if they win. Casual players who find themselves losing will have a double reason to stop PvPing.

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It doesn't even matter. Its a loot path. Same rules should apply to all loot paths otherwise there is a clear message that "unlike pve when you fail in pvp you still get a reward so lets go pvp".

The difference is that the losers in PvP are, in effect, providing content for other players (the ones they are losing to). In this way PvE and PvP are very different.

[Chemii]

The thing is right now people just want to PvP - and when I say that I don't mean play the objectives. All they want to do is fight, very few care objectively if they win or lose, as long as they personally are scoring high.

For some reason in my battle group Horde totally dominates in win/loss and that's mostly because Alliance don't try to win in an pseudo organised fashion after a few weeks into the season.

[Kazuchika]

If they are anything like the loser boxes in WoD, they will be almost entirely worthless.

Keep movin dem goalposts.

[Osmeric]

Keep movin dem goalposts.

Well, you sure addressed the point I made there. A reward that is worthless isn't a reward.

[Kazuchika]

Well, you sure addressed the point I made there. A reward that is worthless isn't a reward.

Worthless to who exactly? First you complain you don't get anything for winning and now it's "well it's not useful to me therefore it's worthless". Here's a wild idea. Don't PVP then or go do arenas so you're not having to lower yourself to playing with scrubs. Or don't I really couldn't care less because you'll just complain about something else.

[Osmeric]

Worthless to who exactly? First you complain you don't get anything for winning and now it's "well it's not useful to me therefore it's worthless". Here's a wild idea. Don't PVP then or go do arenas so you're not having to lower yourself to playing with scrubs. Or don't I really couldn't care less because you'll just complain about something else.

You seem to think that if someone gets a reward, even if it's inferior to what they can easily get elsewhere, they will be happy.

The loser boxes in Legion, if they are anything like the loser boxes in WoD, will be sources of vendor trash. How can this possibly be a motivation for someone to PvP?

[shaunika123]

My entire argument has been this: promoting losing is bad.
.

except that has no connection or relevance to this topic

a: it doesnt promote losing, at worst it promotes winning less because in the old system(any of them) you got more reward for winning still(by quite a big margin)

b: it doesnt even really promote winning, it just makes people hate the game because not only do they have no influence on the general outcome, now they dont even get anything for their time investment if they're unlucky, gear aquirement now boils down to a coin flip literally.

c: random BGS are garbage in the competitive sense, you dont go there to "win" if you want that do rated bgs or arenas, you go there to have fun or to gear up for the actual pvp, of course you should try to win, but it's literally the least competitive form of PVP in the entire game, it's basically pvp LFR, it doesnt matter if you tryhard or not because it will rarely influence the outcome of the game the worst players in the world will win a lot of bgs and the best players in the world will lose a lot, so why tie it to winning when winning a BG isnt your achievement but your team's?