Recent Nerfs - Blizzard feedback threads

[Galathir]

And those fights where you need to stun or interrupt usually have to happen with particular timing. During a cast or an enrage.
A 5 second lead in for a group stun that burns your best dps cooldown, or a 10% chance on a critical obliterate to stun aren't either not on demand or reliable.
While unholy has 100% chance to happen immediately stuns, via ghoul or asphyxiate, albeit only to a single target.

For slows unholy can spec for a better toolkit than frost. While frost has the better baseline.
Both have chains of ice, and remorseless winter being the only baseline advantage frost has.
Talent wise the only slow frost can gain is white walker while unholy essentially stole frosts old chillblains with destabilising infestation, giving them a ranged spammable aoe slow that refreshes itself for 6 seconds around the main target, so it actually turns into a 9 second slow.

So overall it would seem unholy has better on demand single target stunning capabilities and can exceed frost in the slowing area with frost only having an edge in group stunning by blowing a dps cooldown and combining it with remorseless winter if they can stay within range for 5 seconds.

I hardly classify that as an assload of stuns or slows for frost, especially when comparing the specs.

Except Sludge Belcher, Asphyxiate and Debilitating Infestation all in the same talent row, so we need to decide on what we want to do and it costs us dmg too.

P.s. You don't need to answer. I'm just extremely pissed and salty right now that even other DKs would approve of this nerf because the entire class should be brought down to Frost's level. This is mind-boggling to me.

[Vynny]

So icy-veins did some prepatch guides for the classes based on the changes and they added in an interesting Strengths/Weaknesses section for each class. Now these guides were made by hardcore raiders and theorycrafters who tested them thoroughly and only one class had a statement such as this listed under "weaknesses", so try and take a guess what's under the spoiler bar before clicking it.

"We cannot currently think of any weaknesses for Unholy Death Knights"

So can you see why Blizz might not want a single spec to be so well rounded that it literally has no weaknesses that players and raid comps have to make up for?

[Krazzorx]

So which artifact will this "DK" be feeding all his artifact power cookies?

Here's how it'll work in Legion: you don't play "DK", you play the spec of whichever artifact you built, and if that artifact spec is weak then you struggle and get benched. Specs are important and they must be competitive with each other now more than ever.

Unholy was - and possibly still is - king, and Frost was the doghouse spec, they needed to be brought closer to each other. I realize "nerf" is a dirty word that makes people angry, but game devs can't just buff and buff and buff some more, because then they end up with power creep, and power creep breaks games. And it's important to do as much of it before launch, because the changes will hurt way more after people have already invested in a spec that turns out to be a raiding/pvp/whatevertheywant to do dead-end.

Then you haven't done much research into dual speccing (or even tri speccing for that matter) it is incredibly efficient to keep up 2 specs at once instead of just 1.

[Emophia]

"We cannot currently think of any weaknesses for Unholy Death Knights"

So can you see why Blizz might not want a single spec to be so well rounded that it literally has no weaknesses that players and raid comps have to make up for?

Unholy DKs are the hero class spec, it shouldn't matter.

[Drakonskyr]

/sigh, you know it's bad when one of the best DK players in the game is calling this a "swing and miss".

[Skraal]

Except Sludge Belcher, Asphyxiate and Debilitating Infestation all in the same talent row, so we need to decide on what we want to do and it costs us dmg too.

P.s. You don't need to answer. I'm just extremely pissed and salty right now that even other DKs would approve of this nerf because the entire class should be brought down to Frost's level. This is mind-boggling to me.

Oh I don't agree with the nerf myself. Unholy should be the faster movement spec, frost should be the better at slowing. Give each their own identity and work from there. Not leave both worrying wth is actually meant to be the identity of their spec.

Was just stating frost lacks viable and decent tools like your statement seemed to claim. It is pretty appalling when it comes to utility atm and the only future utility it will seem to get is better self healing.

[Vynny]

Unholy DKs are the hero class spec, it shouldn't matter.

What the fuck? What kind of idiocy is this? I mean, are you seriously saying that hero classes shouldn't be balanced with everyone else? I mean, cause that worked so well in the beginning of WotLK, right?

[Choot]

So are these frost fanboys high grade trolls or actually insane someone help me. You want to drag unholy down into the discombobulated mud that frost resides in so you can feel better about yourself? We're taking icy veins as gospel? I honestly am not understanding the though process of some of these people. We've hit full unfettered bullshit. What a day.

[Skraal]

So are these frost fanboys high grade trolls or actually insane someone help me. You want to drag unholy down into the discombobulated mud that frost resides in so you can feel better about yourself? We're taking icy veins as gospel? I honestly am not understanding the though process of some of these people. We've hit full unfettered bullshit. What a day.

Beats me, frost should be raised up. Not unholy lowered.

As a frost player myself I feel frost needs more utility to match unholy, not that unholy needs to be gutted to match frost. Unholy has always been the faster movement and at one point gcd spec, fair enough. Frost had been the better ranged burst and slowing spec. Each had their own perks they could bring.

The legion changes left frost lacking what strengths it used to have over unholy, and instead should of been given changes to make it more viable than unholy in certain facets of the game, not for unholy to lose it's strenghts.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Ya man just get over it. You are trying to complain your way into a buff basically. Unholy dk is stupidly strong thanks to epidemic. Just like enhance was with fire nova. They have tone balance the rest.

[Emophia]

What the fuck? What kind of idiocy is this? I mean, are you seriously saying that hero classes shouldn't be balanced with everyone else? I mean, cause that worked so well in the beginning of WotLK, right?

Why should other classes be as good as hero classes? They're not hero classes.

[Deleted]

Why should other classes be as good as hero classes? They're not hero classes.

Because of competitive integrity in PvE and PvP alike.

A hero class just starts at higher level. a DK is not stronger than others, and the lore does not even support that DK's are better than lets say a paladin, their counterpart. It is the strength of the individual, experience and gear that decides your true power.

[Deleted]

Explain then why Paladins and Warriors are more mobile than Death Knights. Explain to me how Rogues can move faster in Stealth. Does that make any sense? You're sneaking, yet you move faster... The lack of mobility should be compensated by being able to do more DPS, Blizzard even said that themselves. But really, all I've seen is a DPS nerf to Unholy Death Knights.

This shouldn't be based on logic, or class fantasy, lore, whatever; it should be based on fairness, on balance between the classes.

IMHO one of the worst thing to happen to WoW was homogenising classes in the name of 'fairness'. Thankfully there seems to be less of that these days.

I'll take a dose of lore and class fantasy any day.

I'd be happy for my DK to move at 80% of movement speed if it was done in a cool fantasy way.

[Deleted]

IMHO one of the worst thing to happen to WoW was homogenising classes in the name of 'fairness'. Thankfully there seems to be less of that these days.

I'll take a dose of lore and class fantasy any day.

I'd be happy for my DK to move at 80% of movement speed if it was done in a cool fantasy way.

Sadly what they are doing is simply make us move at low speed and then stop there.

[Deleted]

Why should other classes be as good as hero classes? They're not hero classes.

This must be trolling?

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Sadly what they are doing is simply make us move at low speed and then stop there.

So Unholy moves at 100% speed now.

If 100% movement speed is considered 'slow' in a computer game then, maybe that computer game's movement speeds got out of hand.

[Deleted]

So icy-veins did some prepatch guides for the classes based on the changes and they added in an interesting Strengths/Weaknesses section for each class. Now these guides were made by hardcore raiders and theorycrafters who tested them thoroughly and only one class had a statement such as this listed under "weaknesses", so try and take a guess what's under the spoiler bar before clicking it.

"We cannot currently think of any weaknesses for Unholy Death Knights"

So can you see why Blizz might not want a single spec to be so well rounded that it literally has no weaknesses that players and raid comps have to make up for?

"Passive movement speed increase" well, not anymore.

[Deleted]

This must be trolling?

- - - Updated - - -



So Unholy moves at 100% speed now.

If 100% movement speed is considered 'slow' in a computer game then, maybe that computer game's movement speeds got out of hand.

It is when most classes got very good mobility options in their toolbox, wraith walk is a joke.

[FertsBlert]

This must be trolling?

- - - Updated - - -



So Unholy moves at 100% speed now.

If 100% movement speed is considered 'slow' in a computer game then, maybe that computer game's movement speeds got out of hand.

Yup and moving at 100% speed would be absolutely fine.... if the other melee in your raid weren't much faster leading to much higher uptime on mobile bosses, if encounter design didn't often require large amounts of movement to GTFO of bad or get to spawns that need to be handled RIGHT FUCKING NOW, if in small group content especially at Mythic\Challenge mode level you weren't so damn slow you are left behind constantly and spend your entire time catching up to do less than everyone else and so on. This game is built around the idea that melee MOVE fast and easily DK's don't at all not even the little bit they used to.

[Coldvibes]

Worgen confirmed required race for alliance dks.

[TiaMaster]

Worgen confirmed required race for alliance dks.

CD is too long to apply here, but yeah.