"We're putting everything we have into Legion"

[Blaek]

While the communities are not as close as they used to be due to cross realm etc. I disagree that they are "dead" or non existent.

Im optimistic for Legion in seeing more open-world activity (look at Beta) and a overall more lively community. However what you describe is simply gone, games change, times change, and people move on. WoW is nothing of its former self from Vanilla/BC, so wanting that feeling back is nothing more than nostalgia.

I agree Vanilla and BC were some of the best times ive ever had playing WoW, and its when I fell in love with the game. But i still re-sub for new content and stay optimistic about changes. If i dont like the direction, i simply stop playing if i cant find another avenue to enjoy.

Its all personal perception though. To say most people that played in Vanilla/BC dont anymore is just false. Infact MOST people I play with are all veterans.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Deleted]

Well the realm community of my realm has shrunk to a handful of guilds and the forum is dead.

I also want to socialize, but due to CRZ, most of the people I meet are from other realms.

As I said, I don't expect anyone here to have much problems with the game as it is.

[miffy23]

Well the realm community of my realm has shrunk to a handful of guilds and the forum is dead.

I also want to socialize, but due to CRZ, most of the people I meet are from other realms.

As I said, I don't expect anyone here to have much problems with the game as it is.

That's probably because people left realm forums and came to places like MMO-C for the toxic banter. They're barely used for guild recruitment these days and that's about it.

[ryanmahaffe]

People are cutting Blizzard a lot of slack and I don't know why. Considering they have a much better tech now, than when they did TBC and WotLK. Can anyone right now put his hand on his heart and say Legion feels as massive in scope and content as TBC and WotLK? Because it doesn't feel like it to me.

TBC and WotLK had twice as much content at launch mind you, than Legion will have in it's whole duration. Both TBC and WotLK made massive strides in both PvE and PvP, adding new battlegrounds, buffing classes that needed buffing(Ret), adding massive new popular systems(Arenas), improving on raiding after feedback going into 10/25 man.

Compare this to what we have in Legion - world quests(daily quests), artifact weapons(5-6 skins with different colors), a lot less dungeon content, class halls(is this even content?), no new battlegrounds, no new impactful pvp systems etc.

It's a very barebones expansion, but they made it look all nice and fancy. Will I play it? Of course I will because even with this little content WoW is still far ahead of any other MMO on the market, but comparing Legion to WotLK is just ridiculous, even MoP was a much bigger expansion.

Oh my god
Take off the goggles dude
Holy christ

Legion has 10 launch dungeons, same as Wrath
The difference being, Legion dungeons are all completely unique and look completely different where as Wrath (and TBC) were the same reused models and design for 2-3 dungeons

World quests are not daily quests, if you would have read instead of just rubbing it to your Arthas poster you would have known that, they are missions for out in the world, this can be a world boss (11, more than all other xpacs COMBINED) dungeon, FFA pvp event, or just a rare mob. It directs you what to do in the open world.

Raids, Legions raids are completely new with breathtaking artistic design and 17 bosses, a lot for any mmos first tier. Wrath had...oh right, Naxxramas

Counting colors and skins, Legion has more weapon variants than WoD... and it is not just a weapon with different skins, again, try reading, I heard it makes people smarter. It is an entire progession system that will keep you farming for a while after the expansion launches

Mythic+ at anything past level 7 or 8 makes Wrath dungeons look like kindergarden, and 10+ makes TBC look like daycare. So if WoW was about difficulty to someone, this is the xpac for them.

Order halls themselves are not content, but they unlock content such as questlines, narrative storyarchs

Most people in beta are LOVING Legion, people loved WoD in alpha because they had no idea what little there was to actually do. But many of them in beta KNEW by the end of beta that there was not much

And people also enjoyed WoD in beta because 6.0 was a FINE patch, it just wasn't supported, and if you would just leave wrath and TBC in the past, YOU would realize that Legion has more launch content (FAR MORE) than BOTH of those expansions, and we already know what 7.1 is, hell, it's been being worked on since pre blizzcon.

[Deleted]

I do kinda of believe on this.
The amount of system changes, application of other systems to other area, the overhaul and streamlining of classes and talents, and so in is an amount of work that is clearly vastly superior to what was put into wod.

Zone scaling for levelling
Mythic+
Artifact system
Itemization scaling expanded
Wardrobe
Revamp of pretty muc every spec talents
New class
Complete overhaul of at least two spec
Massive changes to most of classes/spec
World quest system
Better and more encompassing pre expansion event
More things that i may not remember

While we may agree or not on how much we like certain things or not it's undeniable that Legion has so much more work and effort than wod put into it.

Please note that even if some features were already used somewhere else, reimplementing them in different places and areas is not effortless both implementation and design wise.

[Extremities]

well, if you analyse it a bit, it goes like this.


BC: blizzard wtf, very hard content, nerf please, we cannot enjoy this.

WOTLK: blizzard wtf, very easy content, buff please, we cannot enjoy zerging.

Cata: blizzard wtf, very hard content, nerf please, we cannot enjoy this.

Mop: blizzard wtf, too much dailies, cut please, we cannot enjoy our life

WoD: blizzard wtf, nothing to do, more content please, we cannot enjoy afk in garrison.

(incoming QQ) Legion: blizzard wtf, TOO MUCH content, cut please, we cannot enjoy our life.


if you see, blizzard had a problem balancing, they either give you hard, or give you way less, they managed to fix the dungeons/raids problem, but i expect them to have problems with content, i would expect legion to be content heavy, and that people would go playing 24/7 and qqing that they cannot take a day break

WoW - The age of cry baby, instant gratification, instant hand me everything on a platter without any challenge, no good people. It's a shame. The reason WoW has gone the way WoW has gone is because of the players. Good size up of all the expansions.

[MasterHamster]

I do kinda of believe on this.
The amount of system changes, application of other systems to other area, the overhaul and streamlining of classes and talents, and so in is an amount of work that is clearly vastly superior to what was put into wod.

Zone scaling for levelling
Mythic+
Artifact system
Itemization scaling expanded
Wardrobe
Revamp of pretty muc every spec talents
New class
Complete overhaul of at least two spec
Massive changes to most of classes/spec
World quest system
Better and more encompassing pre expansion event
More things that i may not remember

While we may agree or not on how much we like certain things or not it's undeniable that Legion has so much more work and effort than wod put into it.

Please note that even if some features were already used somewhere else, reimplementing them in different places and areas is not effortless both implementation and design wise.

It's a weakness people always had, and always will have.
Quantity.

People stare blindly at arbitrary numbers. I mean BC had a ton of dungeons but it was 3-4 reusing the same assets (and it made sense! I wish Blizzard could do that more often because it can be easily justified!) filled with bosses with 2-3 mechanics. But it was still more advanced than classics 1-trick pony bosses.

Emerald Nightmare probably has more mechanics, scripts, voice acting etc than BC combined, but it's still "just one raid".

I think it's obvious looking at Legion that a metric fuckton of work has gone into it, but it's also a ton of polishing, and it's very easy to just compress it into "lol 9 dungeons and 3 raid tiers and woo a class" and ignore everything that isn't quantifiable, like the things you listed.

[Hexxidecimal]

That's simply not true, realm communities are still very much the same.
You just aren't limited to a pool of 500 players anymore for dungeons, that's pretty much it. All the raiding guilds still know each other, same with PvP guilds.

You're really just dumping "feelings" and your nostalgia about your old community into criticism of current content. It's fine to miss all that, but it's not true in any way or form that realm communities are gone. Take it from someone very active on my own realm and within the raiding community there.

I have to disagree here. As someone who was an incredibly active (though not "hard core) PvPer in vanilla our guild had arch nemisis (nemiseis?) with other guilds. The same occured on a player to player basis. We weren't some "big" guild in either PvP or PvE but we still formed these very fun server dynamics that just don't exist anymore for small guild. To quote Fight Club most everyone becomes a "single serving friend". Reputations meant something, however little it was it was still something. If you were infamous you may never get a guild or raid invite because of your infamy. Now you just LFR. Even a few Devs have admitted the community isn't what it used to be.

That being said you CAN still create those sort of bonds to an extent but it requires more effort, which isn't necessarily bad. Also I don't personally entirely hate how the WoW community has changed either. But I find it disingenuous to make the claim that it is just as tight as it was back then. Unlike most people though I don't know if it needs "fixed". Heck at this point I feel like we may as just have one super server. We are pretty darn close to it as is. The only thing people can't do with others from other servers is trade stuff.

[Deleted]

I don't think this hyperbolic rhetoric is helping their cause. In fact I would argue that it is doing more harm than good. It is hard to take Blizzard seriously when this kind of language is used.

Are you really taking about what Blizzard said or the content of your post?

[Deleted]

Nearly anyone who has spent time in beta would agree that the quality of this expansion is leaps and bounds above anything that has come before it.

dont know anyone who would honestly put Legion above tbc or wotlk..."nearly anyone" agrees its above WoD, which, sorry to say, tells you nothing...

[Deleted]

dont know anyone who would honestly put Legion above tbc or wotlk..."nearly anyone" agrees its above WoD, which, sorry to say, tells you nothing...

I would honestly put it far above those two. As a beta player, I should know where Legion is compared to the rest of the expansions. I "rushed through" Legion content, and even after a month of many hours played each day, I'm still nowhere near done. With a single character at that.

If content is what you care about, Legion should certainly provide enough. Quality content? That as well. But yeah, think I'm done arguing about it here, seems pointless when half the people who want to crap on Legion haven't tried it and just want to be negative. I'll let it speak for itself August 30th.

- - - Updated - - -

I have to disagree here. As someone who was an incredibly active (though not "hard core) PvPer in vanilla our guild had arch nemisis (nemiseis?) with other guilds. The same occured on a player to player basis. We weren't some "big" guild in either PvP or PvE but we still formed these very fun server dynamics that just don't exist anymore for small guild. To quote Fight Club most everyone becomes a "single serving friend". Reputations meant something, however little it was it was still something. If you were infamous you may never get a guild or raid invite because of your infamy. Now you just LFR. Even a few Devs have admitted the community isn't what it used to be.

That being said you CAN still create those sort of bonds to an extent but it requires more effort, which isn't necessarily bad. Also I don't personally entirely hate how the WoW community has changed either. But I find it disingenuous to make the claim that it is just as tight as it was back then. Unlike most people though I don't know if it needs "fixed". Heck at this point I feel like we may as just have one super server. We are pretty darn close to it as is. The only thing people can't do with others from other servers is trade stuff.

"Now you just LFR" - Gotta get me some of that sweet crap gear. I guess the text color is purple, which is all that matters, right?

[Hexxidecimal]

dont know anyone who would honestly put Legion above tbc or wotlk..."nearly anyone" agrees its above WoD, which, sorry to say, tells you nothing...

I would put it well above TBC and certain aspect of it above WotLK. Wrath had a very cohesive and impactful story with a known and loved villain with the Lich King. Legion is really just improving on this with more voice work and cool cinematic moments (assuming all those moments where the screen goes black but nothing actually plays are cool cinematic moments). The questing is better in Legion than Wrath in my opinion. Though the scale of the map is much smaller than Wrath had though I find that to be of minimal concern as the quality of content in Legion is much higher in their respective zones. The thing that Wrath REALLY did well was content. That expansion had 4 raid tiers and a TON of dungeons. It was fantastic. We have yet to see if that will be the case with Legion, though I doubt it will have as much. It'll have a lot it seems like, but likely not as much.

Class wise, well that is super subjective. Personally I am a big fan of the prune for the most part. Most of the class have a solid direction and flavorful play style. While being less complicated I feel like there is still plenty of depth, at least for the classes I play. Anyway about half the people I talk to really really like the changes, other half really really hate them.

We are getting a new class as well, like WotLK. Personally I find the DH as fun as the DKs if not more so. Though to be fair DKs are in the best place they have been in since Wrath.

I wouldn't say that Legion is better than WotLK but it's easily has the potential to be better if we can get the same level of content.

- - - Updated - - -

I would honestly put it far above those two. As a beta player, I should know where Legion is compared to the rest of the expansions. I "rushed through" Legion content, and even after a month of many hours played each day, I'm still nowhere near done. With a single character at that.

If content is what you care about, Legion should certainly provide enough. Quality content? That as well. But yeah, think I'm done arguing about it here, seems pointless when half the people who want to crap on Legion haven't tried it and just want to be negative. I'll let it speak for itself August 30th.

- - - Updated - - -



"Now you just LFR" - Gotta get me some of that sweet crap gear. I guess the text color is purple, which is all that matters, right?

Depends on the person right? Some people just want to experience the stuff they haven't before. Some want the best gear available. But assuming you are referring to my actual point of community and how it's less cohesive than it once was let me place before you a scenario. You and your guilds reputation was built not only in raids but in your every day interaction with players in the world, in dungeons and in the communication with other guilds on your server, whether that be cross faction rivalries via the server forums (which are now, other than the most active servers, are dead) or interfaction alliances. So if you were a known ass while grouping, questing or PvPing, your name became infamous. This may close the doors to the best raiding guilds on the server (or open them if you were a really good ass). Now I can do all these things without a soul on my server ever knowing. My interaction is spread across so many people and servers that is simply doesn't matter. I can easily get into a pug raid because no one knows that I am an ass. But lets say I work REALLY hard at being a dick head. Suddenly word spread on my server that I am a dick now no one wants me. I can STILL just LFG for pug raid that will put me into a group of people not on my server at all and have no idea how shitty I am. Absolute worse case scenario I can LFR. It's not the best gear sure but I still get to do the content instead of just being completely blocked for my shitty behavior.

This mostly holds true in PvP as well though the dynamic was a bit different. Toxicity there is a bit more expected as is anything that is competitive. Just quick example is a guy who loved to dance and spam emote you when killing you back in vanilla days. That dude got so infamous that we just killed him on site. He would get focused down so quick that eventually he had to reroll to enjoy PvP anymore.

The reverse is true as well. If you were helpful/skilled or just nice it also had very positive effects. Alot of that is lost now. Not gone, but defiantly lost.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I can promise you, you won't be disappointed with 7.0.3, the base game.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You know what's not helping them? Your casual pedantic attitude. Play the actual game instead of worrying what debs are doing what and 4 leveling zones. You quitting would be more productive than anything blizzard can do because no matter what you won't be happy.

[Torais]

* No new BGs
* Horrible class balancing despite harping on how they have all these "knobs to turn".
* The absolute worse communication I have seen in any beta with the PvP community to date.

Yeah...No. Sorry Blizzard but sell that line to someone more gullible.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

Or, you know... People actually just enjoy the game?

The thing is, the people who legitimately just enjoy and play the game spend considerably less time defending it, then those who are trolling or hate the game. People who have issue with the game spend more time of forums, and more effort, in trying to make anyone who likes the game feel like a brainwashed twat.

I like the look of Legion. I didn't like Warlords, I think it wasn't their best work, but I also see that Warlords did have some good features and some bad. The same goes for every iteration of the game. Classic wasn't 100% amazing, it had huge issues and downfalls, as did every expansion. Perhaps though, people just like the game, where it's headed and the designs of Legion?

I love puppies, obvious brainwashed puppy cultist here. I honestly don't understand why these people who try so hard to be displeased and outraged are even here. I guess they're just sad people? I honestly don't know what to think about them besides not liking them.

[hulkgor]

Devils advocate here, but a lot of people said the same about Warlords of Draenor.

A lot.

Now, I'll freely admit that I didn't play Mists, but my (personal) assessment of the expansions would be:

Vanilla: Original - and the best for its time. Buggy as shit, simple raid mechanics, but still pretty darn fun. Would flop if released now.
Burning Crusade: Buggy as all hell, but also great for the time it was released. Would also flop if released now.
Wrath of the Lich King: Probably the beginning of a polished game, many great features, and Ulduar still stands out as the best raid tier (for me). ICC dragged out too long. Would probably perform well if released now.
Cataclysm: Initial Heroic dungeons and raids were insanely good. Pity about the nerf. I left after the nerf was announced for the first tier. Would also perform well if released now, but a lot of missed opportunities with the introduction of phasing and overall world content (even if stretched over multiple expansions). Losing the old world was a crime - quests should have been revamped but the story should have remained, especially for levelling consistency.
Mists of Pandaria: Decried by many before launch, eventually accepted because of strong endgame content. Huge complaints about the length of the final tier. Overall a solid expansion.
Warlords of Draenor: Carried by ridiculous levels of GET HYPE until the facade fell away, leaving people to realise this was a shell of an expansion. Coupled with 14(?) months of HFC, has not helped the image cultivated over previous expansions and has generated a lot of cynicism towards Blizzard.
Legion: ???

After the mess that was Warlords, Blizzard has a lot riding on this expansion. I truly believe that this expansion has the potential to (re)make or break this game. For a game with the massive following WoW has, two expansions in a row of sub-par gaming will drive people away in droves.

What a bunch of silly comments. Seriously.

[barrsftw]

When they say "we" they mean the World of Warcraft team; no Blizzard Entertainment.

[Deleted]

-snip-

I never saw any of that, and I never cared much about it. The game is what it is, and how people behave doesn't really change that. If you are in a guild, I don't see how your reputation matters. Wouldn't you want to stay in that guild anyway? And cross faction reputation matters even less, since world PvP isn't really something you get a say in most of the time, and in instanced PvP it is exactly what you signed up for.

I guess I just don't get it, since I never saw it myself. I never cared much about people outside the guild. When people left the guild I was in to join another, we usually just had fun watching them fail over there instead. Unless it was one of the good ones, then it sucked.

[emilylorange]

Oh dear. I've thought WoD was that arrow-in-the-knee for WoW's fanbase, but it seems it didn't leave a scratch on Blizzard devoted lovers.

I'm legit confused why people spend their day talking about a game if they hate it. Seems like you could be spending that energy more positively.

I unsubbed for a large chunk of WoD. That was how I expressed my disappointment - I withheld money. I'm not 17 so I don't need to hold a grudge forever against someone who made a large mistake, realized it, and is trying to fix it. I can be wary (pay in monthly increments) without being childish.

Now, if we were talking about EA, sure, EA earns and re-earns every bit of ire they get, constantly. No remorse beyond 'I wish people would stop choosing us as worst company of the year '