[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well, I know right now on live if there's enough targets that will live for the full duration, Consecration is worth it. I think a few good parses on Iskar used it. I'm skeptical however that it will keep up with FV at 110, since there are 3 traits that buff Divine Storm, and none that buff Consecration.

Don't you think this information should be tested, confirmed and delivered to devs, then?

[OrcsRLame]

Don't you think this information should be tested, confirmed and delivered to devs, then?

People smarter than myself are working on it. I actually have provided feedback on the official forums, and I think in general no one is really picking Consecration on beta right now, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it buffed at some point.

[Deleted]

Well the community has going all out on blizzard last months and they just gave us a steed to ride on ....
Anyways Storm u are absolutely right. Tier 1 as a whole requires a great deal of reworking if anyone apart from twinks gonna pick another talent than FV. The sole reason for that is that i cannot see how anyone would pick anything else since Ashbringer traits buff FV related finishers while leaving the rest untouched.

[Deleted]

Ret's should be able to fight on their Mount 24/7. This would be real class fantasy and actually something cool. This super mobility would also justify the low damage.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well the community has going all out on blizzard last months and they just gave us a steed to ride on ....
Anyways Storm u are absolutely right. Tier 1 as a whole requires a great deal of reworking if anyone apart from twinks gonna pick another talent than FV. The sole reason for that is that i cannot see how anyone would pick anything else since Ashbringer traits buff FV related finishers while leaving the rest untouched.

I did not think about lolbringer traits when I raised this question, to be honest.
What bogs me is that Consecration is in no way inreacting with any of Ret mechanics. It's incredibly bland and boring.

[Deleted]

This thread isnt just about pvp.

Not only is this thread not "just for pvp", its just about pve and is nothing about pvp at all. So its kinda strange how some people here are flooding it with pvp stuff. Like there is no thread where all that pvp talk is normal and all(with its 415 pages), lets go to pve one and make it unfriendly and hard to find useful info and answers for anyone trying to do pve and make it so they have to go through pages and pages of useless pvp talk.
Like storm and snegovik are on a mission to just bury this pve thread, as they prefer pvp.

How about anyone saying anything PVE-wise @110? In both paladin thread i can't see anything else but "NO GLAD PVP PALA SHIT QQ", not a single bit of information about pve performance.

Yeap, quite strange since we are in ret pve guide. But anyway, at 110 its terrible at anything pve-wise, so maybe thats why there is no info. Bad at everything except tunnel vision single target boss fights. And terrible at high mythic+ dungeons.

[Puzzony]

Waddya wanna know? I'm not an expert, but I've played quite a bit of beta and I like to think I'm not shit at the game, and I'd be willing to answer any questions you have.

I'd be interested about the viability in a raid, i've checked numerous logs from nighthold, and on "legit" fights (not Tichondrius with the retarded aoe spam) we seem to be in the top 4-5 on the most logs, though lot of them features the t18 4pc and the legendary ring being scaled up to 850. Are we really in a good spot dps-wise or just the setbonus-legendary ring combo trolling the charts?

[Deleted]

I did not think about lolbringer traits when I raised this question, to be honest.
What bogs me is that Consecration is in no way inreacting with any of Ret mechanics. It's incredibly bland and boring.

Well it really bothers me that the design was made "on foot" to loan a greek saying, meaning that they made only one talent from tier 1 viable by failing to design ashbringer traits horribly when it comes to synergy and all....
Now when it comes to conc i feel it is an iconic paladin ability and shouldn't get removed but making it that weak and outside the box of design makes me think that they just rolled a coin to decide whether to remove conc or our hammer finisher when they re-designed the spells for the expansion and just threw the spell randomly somewhere during a hard constipated defacation

[Deleted]

I personally feel like this is the worst change they could have done ( knowing that they had to do SOMETHING since the mobility was absurd), it is NOT a good spell and I really dislike the visual/gameplay it provides. Steed on it's own doesn't even cancel snares so you still have to overlap it with freedom (remember that's 2 GCD's and freedom is stealable) to get any real mileage out of it.

Making Seal of Light our passive and adding Long Arm as a talent to replace it would of been the call.

[Sigxy]

Ret's should be able to fight on their Mount 24/7. This would be real class fantasy and actually something cool. This super mobility would also justify the low damage.

I totally like the idea of mounted combat, but not at the cost of low damage - would be a problem in PvE. What I would say is making some talent or something that goes like this:

While outdoors, you can fight on your mount at all times. However, when you are struck in melee, your movement speed is back to normal 100% (Ranged attacks, 150%. Each second outside of combat, you gain 5% extra movement speed, up until you are at 200%.

And I'd be fine if it was a talent that also removed Heart of the Crusader (The +20% mount speed) if I was able to fight while mounted - it just never felt the same anyway eversince they made it a personal passive rather than a raid-buff aura.

[Useful]

Will it be possible to reach 100% or close judgement uptime? If yes - how much haste we need? Sorry if that was asked before.

[Snegovik]

Ret Dream is Real boys, did a bg, even though my side lost, i was 2nd top kills, 0 death, 2nd best dmg (UA lock is top) but i managed to out dps another UA lock. Almost doubled dmg of an UH DK

http://imgur.com/irCERsq

I love that we have 2x DS, you are able now to kill a BM hunter =)

[Kinneas]

I'm far from any good with the Theorycrafting side of things, but most of the guides I've seen suggest 30% haste would give close to 100% judgment uptime.

I've gone from 17% at the start of prepatch to around 23% now and I'm definitely noticing the difference.

[Deleted]

Will it be possible to reach 100% or close judgement uptime? If yes - how much haste we need? Sorry if that was asked before.

Hey yea at 30% haste your Judgment cooldown is at about 9 sec. So you have pretty much 1 gcd between each judgment


For those who didn't notice; our Judgment tooltip got fixed too.

[Fredzilla]

Yeah, sadly it only jumping once wasn't a bug.

[Gracin]

I'm far from any good with the Theorycrafting side of things, but most of the guides I've seen suggest 30% haste would give close to 100% judgment uptime.

I've gone from 17% at the start of prepatch to around 23% now and I'm definitely noticing the difference.

Yea, I regemmed and enchanted from numbers pretty similar to yours and it mad a world of difference. If my math is correct on a gear profile I ran from just heroic dungeon drops in legion, we should be right around 30% haste without stepping in a raid.

[Taeldorian]

obviously this piss-poor puddle of piss-poorly animtaed piss is flat out useless in PvP.

What I wanted to know is why and under what conditions Consecration might trumple FV in Slaying of the Scripted Dragons.
If it might.

Stationary adds. In raids and even dungeons theres mobs you pull that just stand there, consecration is worth it for those type of situations which occur frequently when trash pulling. Theres use for it. It doesnt really interact with our rotation, but theres definitely use for it. I wouldnt take it other than for trash mobs though. The animation is sweet, so I dont mind it being bland, feels really good to hit consecration. Since the ability is a stationary one though, theres not much interaction I can think of other than just consecration+DS spam. Im not sure how close FV vs Cons is with the artifact, but if anything they should be really close. If not, then that has to be tuned later, but Im not a theorycrafter so we have to wait and see.

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Not only is this thread not "just for pvp", its just about pve and is nothing about pvp at all. So its kinda strange how some people here are flooding it with pvp stuff. Like there is no thread where all that pvp talk is normal and all(with its 415 pages), lets go to pve one and make it unfriendly and hard to find useful info and answers for anyone trying to do pve and make it so they have to go through pages and pages of useless pvp talk.
Like storm and snegovik are on a mission to just bury this pve thread, as they prefer pvp.

Cant agree. Talking about both pvp and pve in here is fine, I was just pointing out that its not only about pvp.

Both of the people you mentioned I enjoy talking to in this thread and they both give good feedback, so I disagree with you there as well. I talk about both since I used to mythic raid (now its just normal/heroic} with somewhat high rated pvp on the side.

Either way, giving feedback here is okay, but it doesnt really have any affect on anything. If you wanna worry about what feedback goes where, that would be the beta forums. Obviously theorycrafting for pve numbers should happen here, but thats really all I would expect in terms of info so I dont see a problem of pvp and pve being discussed in the same thread.

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U should try that comp, like they rush in pop cds, and aoe everything down, spirit link does not even do anything >.< i think its supperior to the Arms/DH/Hpal cuz Dk can dispell BOPs which is a must vs palla teams.

Ah nice.....college years mmmm funnest years of my life, btw wtf are u doing laying WoW?! u should quit wow for next 4 years, trust me :P enjoy free alcohol, free girls, and free parties, cuz after u get a full time job, ugotta pay for all of that LOL.

Yeh you are still young one, by the time your body is fully matured you will double that weight. I am Russian so i measure everything in killos, in LBs my deadlift is roughly 540 pounds (245kgx2.2) but i have been stuck for past 5 weeks =( but this week i have a feeling i will push that shit or break bones trying =)

Definitely going to try that comp then, thanks for the tip!

Ive partied, dont enjoy it that much. Can only get with so many free girls before it gets boring. Its fun though, I dont spend 12 hours a day on WoW so I still get to experience that college life. I also dont drink mainly because I workout, I dont want that affecting my body in the future. I drink on special occasions though and I seriously enjoy shit like fireball, but thats about it.

Man thats how its done. Gotta push hard if you want it badly. Its feels really weird though, I started deadlifting a little while ago so its really lacking compared to the other weight I lift on back and shoulders day, it feels so weird going from extremely heavy weight to 255 lbs lol.

[OrcsRLame]

I'd be interested about the viability in a raid, i've checked numerous logs from nighthold, and on "legit" fights (not Tichondrius with the retarded aoe spam) we seem to be in the top 4-5 on the most logs, though lot of them features the t18 4pc and the legendary ring being scaled up to 850. Are we really in a good spot dps-wise or just the setbonus-legendary ring combo trolling the charts?

Well, it's hard to say if we're in a good spot relative to other classes for a few reasons. First off, there's no convenient chart comparing the dps between different classes/specs at various ilvls, so I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point. In my experience on beta, I've always been top on single target except for one time, and that was when I ran with a rogue that had about 30 ilvl on me. That could just be other players on beta sucking though. On AoE I don't think we're great like we have been in the past, but I'd also say we're not literally the worst spec in the game either.

Perhaps the best thing I can say about ret, is that Serenity currently has a ret paladin and from what I can tell he's a main raider. It's been like a thousand fucking years since we've seen a ret in a world first video so that on its own is fairly encouraging to me.

If you're concerned about raid viability though, I think you're looking at legendaries all wrong. Every spec is going to need 2 legendaries to be good come mythic Nighthold. I honestly think that anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. If you're not in the sort of guild that would expect you to farm hundreds if not thousands of heroic dungeons for legendaries, then you're probably not in the sort of guild where you need to worry about the viability of your spec. Don't be bad and farm your ass off for artifact power and you'll do more damage than 99.99% of the people that play this game. If you are in that sort of guild, then what you really need to be concerning yourself with is how we perform at 880+ ilvl with double legendaries and 4PT19, and I don't think many people can answer that. From everything I've seen though, I think we do some pretty big dick single target and mediocre but not awful AoE.

[Deleted]

Well straightforward damage output not gonna pay much. Even if we somehow manage to have the same output as last patch we have to consider a bunch of things.
If mythic plus dungeons where quite some gearz will drop from work the way challenge modes did this expansion we almost sure not gonna get a spot. Not enough burst aoe, no mass cc no externals low damage mitigation.
As for progress raids most probably our subpar dps not gonna make it with our next to nothing utility. If i were a raidleader would even prefer a shadow priest with disco os to try things out during progression instead of a crappy melee with zero externals and raid utility

[Snegovik]

Definitely going to try that comp then, thanks for the tip!


Man thats how its done. Gotta push hard if you want it badly. Its feels really weird though, I started deadlifting a little while ago so its really lacking compared to the other weight I lift on back and shoulders day, it feels so weird going from extremely heavy weight to 255 lbs lol.

Yest as i was doing 3s, i was thinking about Cupid, didnt BM lost its traps? So pretty much cupid wont be viable any more since we lost our cc >.<, no trap for hunters, 10 yards on HOJ (a joke, enemy healer can just walk away from you lol) so unless you are running with a Resto drood or Rshammy who can cc healer in place while you get to him for a HOJ hm... I think Rets will have to completely change their comp set ups for Legion based on what i am noticing now.

I totally get u on deadlift part, i only started doing deadlift likea year ago, and for the 1st 6 month my bench was higher than DL lol...but now my DL surpassed it, which good. For me, it was just being able to ignore the weight + proper form, after that my DL weight just flew up.

P.S. For all you PvErs who dislike PvP posts, you can skip these posts, i am not forcing any1 to read it, nor does Storm for that matter, stop complaining. Name of this thread is 7.0 Ret Palla guide and DISCUSSION, hence we are discussing the state of Ret in this patch.