[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[DanThePaladin]

I actually have another question about the artifact and relics more specifically.

Lets say I've gotten 3/3 points in Shock Treatment, which allows me to learn the next Talent Protection of the Light. I then spend 1 point in this one to "officially" learn it.
However I then get a relic with high Ilvl that adds 1 more point to Shock Treatment thus making it a 3/4 talent. Will this reset my already learned talent in the next tiers and waste Artifact Points?

Hope you understand what it is I am trying to ask..

[Dorkman]

I actually have another question about the artifact and relics more specifically.

Lets say I've gotten 3/3 points in Shock Treatment, which allows me to learn the next Talent Protection of the Light. I then spend 1 point in this one to "officially" learn it.
However I then get a relic with high Ilvl that adds 1 more point to Shock Treatment thus making it a 3/4 talent. Will this reset my already learned talent in the next tiers and waste Artifact Points?

Hope you understand what it is I am trying to ask..

No, those are just bonus points. If you are already 3/3 in a point, and get a relic that adds another point, it just transitions to reading 4/4 iirc. So while the relic raises the cap, it also gives you the point.

[DanThePaladin]

No, those are just bonus points. If you are already 3/3 in a point, and get a relic that adds another point, it just transitions to reading 4/4 iirc. So while the relic raises the cap, it also gives you the point.

But doesn't it still cost AP to learn that extra rank?

[Dorkman]

No, the relic raises the cap as well as gives you the rank at no AP cost.

[DanThePaladin]

No, the relic raises the cap as well as gives you the rank at no AP cost.

That's very odd, because I'm looking at my Beta Artifact right now and I used 2 relics in Shock Treatment to make it a 5/5 but it still says I need to purchase extra ranks and I cannot get the next tier either.
Is it because I used the relics before I reached 3/3?

[Dorkman]

That's very odd, because I'm looking at my Beta Artifact right now and I used 2 relics in Shock Treatment to make it a 5/5 but it still says I need to purchase extra ranks and I cannot get the next tier either.
Is it because I used the relics before I reached 3/3?

If you used the relics before you were 3/3 then yes. You haven't put in the required points of 3/3 before moving on. Otherwise, I don't know because that didn't happen in the 8 months I've been playing alpha/beta.

Edit:

Because I feel like this is more a misunderstanding than a bug or a change, I'll try to explain further.

For instance, if you are 1/3 in the trait before anything, and you add two relics both giving points to that trait, you then bump up to 3/5. You still have to move up to 5/5 because those two relics are increasing the cap by two points as well as giving you two free points. You then still have to finish off the remaining two points in there to make it 5/5 before moving on.

Or you can think of it like you have 1/3 required points and 2/2 bonus points, which still means you have 2 more required points to get.

[DanThePaladin]

If you used the relics before you were 3/3 then yes. You haven't put in the required points of 3/3 before moving on. Otherwise, I don't know because that didn't happen in the 8 months I've been playing alpha/beta.

Edit:

Because I feel like this is more a misunderstanding than a bug or a change, I'll try to explain further.

For instance, if you are 1/3 in the trait before anything, and you add two relics both giving points to that trait, you then bump up to 3/5. You still have to move up to 5/5 because those two relics are increasing the cap by two points as well as giving you two free points. You then still have to finish off the remaining two points in there to make it 5/5 before moving on.

Or you can think of it like you have 1/3 required points and 2/2 bonus points, which still means you have 2 more required points to get.

Well according to talent calculators it is like you say. If it's maxed you don't get penalized for using relics - It just sorta adds the extra point. However if it's not you have to fill out the extra points.
So really, you don't wanna spend any relics leveling up? Is that a correct assumption?

[Dorkman]

Maybe somebody else can explain it better than I can because I don't know how else to make it clear.

[DanThePaladin]

Maybe somebody else can explain it better than I can because I don't know how else to make it clear.

I get it. I asked another question

[Dorkman]

Okay, well that question seems like the same question as before only rephrased differently. Yes, you absolutely should be using relics while leveling up. You aren't spending AP on bonus ranks, they are given to you. So that's why at this point I have no idea how to answer your question because it seems you don't understand.

Edit: w/ some photos this time from my 104 DK

Here you see my relic giving me one point in Iron Heart, and I have no previous 'required' points in it at all (or being 0/3 in those 'required' points)
Relic equipped

Here you see my Iron Heart trait being 1/4. You get the bonus from the first rank of the trait from the relic without having spent any AP or being connected to the trait itself.
Trait screenshot

[DanThePaladin]

Okay, well that question seems like the same question as before only rephrased differently. Yes, you absolutely should be using relics while leveling up. You aren't spending AP on bonus ranks, they are given to you. So that's why at this point I have no idea how to answer your question because it seems you don't understand.

It's not the same question. if you haven't unlocked a trait yet to me it makes no sense that you use a relic with that trait since you will have to unlock an extra rank thus spending more AP. To me it makes much more sense to wait and get it for free.

[Dorkman]

If this is troll at this point, you got me, I give up.

[DanThePaladin]

If this is troll at this point, you got me, I give up.

Dont be fucking stupid now - There's no trolling going on.
I'll find my answer elsewhere

[Deleted]

It's not the same question. if you haven't unlocked a trait yet to me it makes no sense that you use a relic with that trait since you will have to unlock an extra rank thus spending more AP. To me it makes much more sense to wait and get it for free.

Why would you need to spend any AP? It's a free rank of a given trait that's effectively unlocked as long as you have the relic equipped.

For example - a 0/3 trait would be upgraded to 1/4. To move past the trait in the tree, you still need to spend the ap to rank up 3 times, because otherwise as soon as you replace the artifact with one that gives a different trait, you'd run into problems with the previously boosted trait suddenly losing a rank.

[DanThePaladin]

Why would you need to spend any AP? It's a free rank of a given trait that's effectively unlocked as long as you have the relic equipped

Because it's NOT - If you spend relics before the trait is fully maxed you have to spend extra AP. For instance if you use 2 relics on a trait thats only 1/3 you will need to spend AP upgrading it all the way to 5/5 before you can move on to the next one.
That's why I'm asking if you should wait with equipping Relics till later or say fuck it and use them whilst leveling up. Ilvl doesn't really matter when leveling up you know

[Dorkman]

You're still only spending AP on three ranks, which is what you would have had to spend without the relics.

[Deleted]

Because it's NOT - If you spend relics before the trait is fully maxed you have to spend extra AP. For instance if you use 2 relics on a trait thats only 1/3 you will need to spend AP upgrading it all the way to 5/5 before you can move on to the next one.
That's why I'm asking if you should wait with equipping Relics till later or say fuck it and use them whilst leveling up. Ilvl doesn't really matter when leveling up you know

You're really not getting it. The relic upgrades a trait completely separately from navigating the tree via maxing out the traits with AP. If you need 3/3 to move to the next trait and you use a relic on it, you will gain 1/1 in addition to the 3/3 that you need to level with AP. You will still only need to spend AP on the 3/3 to progress.

[DanThePaladin]

You're really not getting it. The relic upgrades a trait completely separately from navigating the tree via maxing out the traits with AP. If you need 3/3 to move to the next trait and you use a relic on it, you will gain 1/1 in addition to the 3/3 that you need to level with AP.

Let me show you then since you obviously think I'm stupid.
You see this: http://imgur.com/a/7Ao23 - This is Shock Treatment that had 2 relics used on it before it was maxed out at 3/3. I can't move on to the next trait even if it's not sitting at 3/5 and the only way to be able to is to spend extra AP unlocked both rank 4/5 and rank 5/5.
So really. The way I see it, you shouldn't spend relics before a trait is maxed.

[Dorkman]

If you have two relics that both are giving Shock Treatment and are at 3/5, you only spent AP on the trait once. Which means you are currently 1/3 required (YOU MUST SPEND AP ON THESE) and 2/2 bonus ( YOU GOT THESE FOR FREE FROM RELICS ).

[Deleted]

Let me show you then since you obviously think I'm stupid.
You see this: http://imgur.com/a/7Ao23 - This is Shock Treatment that had 2 relics used on it before it was maxed out at 3/3. I can't move on to the next trait even if it's not sitting at 3/5 and the only way to be able to is to spend extra AP unlocked both rank 4/5 and rank 5/5.
So really. The way I see it, you shouldn't spend relics before a trait is maxed.

Fuck.. my... life. IF A TRAIT REQUIRES 3/3, IT REQUIRES 3/3 IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIC BONUSES.

In your example, you are 1/3. Your relics give you 2/2 as a bonus. You are now 3/5. You haven't maxed it out, you need to still make up the 2/3 that you have not spent. Otherwise, you could progress past Shock Treatment, and break the tree as soon as you replace the relic with something that boosts a different trait.