Non-Illidari Demon Hunter/slayer

[Lochton]

Hey guys,

I've come to think about a small few things, and this is one.

Is there, or would there be non-illidari Demon Hunters? Or Demon Slayers? (An unhealthy example would be, Diablo 3 Demon Hunter).

Weilding enchanted blade, bow or crossbow to lay down the scourge of the undead or the demons.

Just a curious thought.

[Enthralled]

Yes, Illidan trained some night elf demon hunters (a small few) during the time after his release from imprisonment when he was roaming the forests of northern Kalimdor during the Third War, until he was finally banished by Malfurion.

[Netherspark]

There could be demon hunters, but they would have nothing to do with Demon Hunters.

But bear in mind, demons are generally far too powerful or strong for mere mortals to fight.

[Deleted]

A considerable amount of elves seemed to be inspired by Illidan's sacrifice during the 10,000 years he was imprisoned, and it seems some even found ways to become demon hunters. We do encounter a couple of modern day demon hunters that roam Kalimdor, The Kingdoms, and Outland who are unassociated with the Illidari.

Illidan is arguably the most powerful demon hunter, as he was the first, and he absorbed dark power in the Warcraft games to enter a sort of... permanent Metamorphosis. It's why he has wings and goat hooves 24/7, whilst we as players will only be able to look like that for a short time (In a DPS cooldown for Havoc). All other demon hunters had to figure out how to tap into that demonic power themselves. That implies some demon hunters taught themselves.

The reason why these elves didn't ally with Illidan is generally because they felt Illidan was leading the Illidari in a direction that supported the Legion, which is everything demon hunters stood against. So, yes, there are demon hunters outside of the Illidari.

Just not many. But then, there aren't supposed to be that many Blood Elves alive today, and they dominate the Horde player population. So in-game and lore populations are different regardless.

[Deleted]

snip

Which non Illidari Demon Hunters are these? Like the one in Felwood?

Never heard of self trained Demon Hunters until now. Someone can elaborate more?

[Enthralled]

Which non Illidari Demon Hunters are these? Like the one in Felwood?

Never heard of self trained Demon Hunters until now. Someone can elaborate more?

It's all head canon.

[Deleted]

It's all head canon.

Illidan became a demon hunter in very unique circumstances. Sargeras burned out his eyes and replaced them, and branded him with magical tattoos. Illidan's metamorphosis then came from the skull of Gul'dan.

Not every demon hunter had Sargeras or the skull of Gul'dan around, for obvious reasons. So that train of thought (because I'm pretty sure it isn't confirmed either way) leads to the idea that all of the demon hunters after Illidan had to adapt his teachings. Maybe after Illidan was locked up, demon hunters created their own methods of training. Maybe they rigidly followed Illidan's techniques? But if that were the case, how could they translate that to not having the skull of Gul'dan or Sargeras to empower them?

I think all demon hunters have roots in the Illidari, but some have (if only one or two) have defected, like Altruis the Sufferer. and others, like Loramus, seem quite independent.

I've avoided Legion story spoilers, but is there any insight into the loyalties of Loramus in the next expansion? Is he an Illidari agent? The fact he stayed on Azeroth whilst Illidan went to Outland seems odd, if that's the case.

[Katchii]

According to Warcraft lore, there are no "Demon Hunters" outside of the Illidari. There may be folks who hunt demons out there, but the player character Demon Hunter is from an invasion force Illidan sent directly from the Black Temple, therefore, all player character Demon Hunters in game are all Illidari. If you read the book "Illidan" it will give you all the information you need, and IMO is a decent enough read.

[Fyersing]

It's all head canon.

You can't accurately describe the suggestion that some DH's exist outside the Illidari as "head canon", especially when there are at least two examples where the DH being independent of them (the Illidari) is possible and/or likely.

It's possible that Telarius Voidstrider is independent of the Illidari; he utilizes verbage that the Illidari don't often resort to and never once mentions membership in such an organization. (Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Telarius_Voidstrider)

It's likely that Loramus Thalipedes is independent of the Illidari; his questlines throughout previous expansions never mention the Illidari and, indeed, in Legion the Illidari treat him as an outsider fighting the same fight. (Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Loramus_Thalipedes)

I've avoided Legion story spoilers, but is there any insight into the loyalties of Loramus in the next expansion? Is he an Illidari agent? The fact he stayed on Azeroth whilst Illidan went to Outland seems odd, if that's the case.

He works with the Illidari. As far as I've seen, he's never been spoken to by any of the Illidari as if he were a member, nor has he spoken of himself as if he were a member.

[Enthralled]

According to Warcraft lore, there are no "Demon Hunters" outside of the Illidari.

Well, that's untrue right there. As I stated above, there was a small number of night elves trained by Illidan in northern Kalimdor. It was canon in Warcraft 3 and they were in game in classic WoW.

What isn't canon are self-trained demon hunters.

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You can't accurately describe the suggestion that some DH's exist outside the Illidari as "head canon", especially when there are at least two examples where the DH being independent of them (the Illidari) is possible and/or likely.

And I never did, not even my first post in this thread did. Read it again.

[Deathbelf]

There are Demon Hunters outside of the Illidari, some who defected and some who just weren't trained during the Illidari time (Lorramus). I believe DHs on the stronger side can/will train new groups of Demon Hunters, although these will likely still be referred to as Illidari. Even Illidan had assistance in training and controlling his Illidari in the book, which leads me to believe it's not too far-fetched more will be trained.
Someone who hunts demons without the power of the Illidari, especially using a bow/crossbow, could just be referred to as a hunter of demons I guess? The Hunter in-game class, just one that hates demons?

[Deleted]

There's certainly ways to accomplish a "hunter of demons" or demon-slayer mentality akin to a demon hunter... Imagine yourself a human spellblade who decides to wield the fel instead of the arcane for his spellbladery and turns this towards demons. A regretful Sargerai turning his/her curse towards the Legion to fight them. A paladin or other wielder of Holy Light like a priestess of the moon, taken to the practice of traversing the lands on an endless trek to track down and slay demons. Even a classic warlock can be played this way, learning of the fel. It's strengths and weaknesses enslaving demons and using THEM to fight the Legion along with absorbing and using the very fel energy empowering the Burning Legion.

There are many ways to write in demon slayers and hunters of demons of all kinds... But Demon Hunter refers to one thing and one thing only. And obviously not all are Illidari, those on Azeroth all seem to have been trained by Illidan at some point, but none of them seems to be Illidari... Though I only know of two. Loramus Thalipedes and Feronas Sindweller. The vast majority of Demon Hunters I think can easily be confirmed as being Illidari. Like non-Illidari demon hunters making up like 1% of all DH's.

[Fyersing]

And I never did, not even my first post in this thread did. Read it again.

I understand what you meant to say, that the idea of self-trained Demon Hunters is head canon, but the context of that initial statement seemed to be in reference to non-Illidari DH's in general -- which was what my response was directed at.

We agree that there isn't any canonical evidence to suggest that random NE's (or BE's) are just walking around figuring out how to become DH's on their own.

[Enthralled]

I understand what you meant to say, that the idea of self-trained Demon Hunters is head canon, but the context of that initial statement seemed to be in reference to non-Illidari DH's in general -- which was what my response was directed at.

It wasn't.

[Katchii]

Well, that's untrue right there. As I stated above, there was a small number of night elves trained by Illidan in northern Kalimdor. It was canon in Warcraft 3 and they were in game in classic WoW.

What isn't canon are self-trained demon hunters.

If they were trained by Illidan, doesn't that make them Illidari? That's how they got their name isn't it? Illidan - Illidari?

[Enthralled]

If they were trained by Illidan, doesn't that make them Illidari? That's how they got their name isn't it? Illidan - Illidari?

No, that name is specific to his Black Temple forces in Outland. They were so named by the council, the council boss fight before him in the raid known as the Illidari Council. They came up with the name.

[Katchii]

No, that name is specific to his Black Temple forces in Outland. They were so named by the council, the council boss fight before him in the raid known as the Illidari Council. They came up with the name.

The term Illidari is derived from Illidan being their liege lord essentially, and would therefore apply to anyone who is under Illidans command or tutelage. Please provide a source that states the name is specific to his Black Temple forces.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidari

[Deleted]

I just want to clarify - when I asked about Demon Hunters outside the Illidari - I don't mean Demon Hunters who were taught and initiated into the Illidari, I mean are there any actual Demon hunters who self taught outside of the organisation altogether?

Someone claimed there are Demon Hunters who are self taught, being a Demon Hunter then defecting is an entirely different situation to self training from the ground up independently to become a Demon Hunter.

[Enthralled]

The term Illidari is derived from Illidan being their liege lord essentially, and would therefore apply to anyone who is under Illidans command or tutelage. Please provide a source that states the name is specific to his Black Temple forces.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Illidari

In Chapter 5 of the Illidan book it states outright that the name originates with the blood elf council. Even the link you gave me specifies that the Illidari is the name given to his Outland forces. Therefore the name could hardly apply to demon hunters trained before the name even existed.

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I just want to clarify - when I asked about Demon Hunters outside the Illidari - I don't mean Demon Hunters who were taught and initiated into the Illidari, I mean are there any actual Demon hunters who self taught outside of the organisation altogether?

Someone claimed there are Demon Hunters who are self taught, being a Demon Hunter then defecting is an entirely different situation to self training from the ground up independently to become a Demon Hunter.

This is what I was referring to as being purely head canon. There's nothing in the lore to suggest such a thing exists.

[DemonHunter18]

I just want to clarify - when I asked about Demon Hunters outside the Illidari - I don't mean Demon Hunters who were taught and initiated into the Illidari, I mean are there any actual Demon hunters who self taught outside of the organisation altogether?

Someone claimed there are Demon Hunters who are self taught, being a Demon Hunter then defecting is an entirely different situation to self training from the ground up independently to become a Demon Hunter.

there are probably other Demon Hunters who were not trained by Illidan himself. you can call them the second generation Demon Hunters while Illidan and the Demon Hunters who are trained by him are the first generation.