Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Carthh]

Si, it will total all the damage for AoE (let's face it.. ST fights are *not* common in warcraft) and throw it to wherever *you* are. Not where it hit for FoTI) hits then focus it to a single target. Very very good for gaming (basically the ring on a smaller scale).

They've also said the exact same thing, then nerfed the damage of it which changed absolutely nothing So.. don't count it 'til it's walking, because a lot of the fixes have massive unintended consequences. It's also really not that awful to play, but yes, it would be an overall nerf given that prepared and da (not that you'd go da; you'd go prepared) CANNOT proc FBar by their very nature. There's just no way that they can compete, so Dblades actually comes down to the competition between Dbite and Dblades rather than anything else (which dblades wins by a good margin currently).

FoTI does not snap-shot, correct. So you'll want Mom up the entire time to buff it. I'd have to do more testing (or people in discord that might know for certain) to see if RoTI gets a 20% increase in what it should hit for, but gut feeling says it shouldn't; it should just take the damage, then do a set amount of damage. Could be wrong, no data either way right now. That sort of double-dipping is.. strange, and would be counter to how bloodlet currently works as well.

That's super interesting about where RoTI damage is applied and really good to know. I don't have anywhere near enough AP to get it anytime soon to test stuff with it which is why I was curious about the double dip with momentum which I would also assume wouldn't apply twice, but it is a separate damage source from FoTI as opposed to Bloodlet which is a dot so I was just curious.

I agree about Dblades, unfortunately I feel like they would simply have to redesign most of the tier with removing Dblades and adjusting or replacing the others to make up for the lost damage but I don't see that happening this late into the beta and they sound like they want to keep Dblades so you're probably right about just playing it no matter what.

[Qck]

That's super interesting about where RoTI damage is applied and really good to know. I don't have anywhere near enough AP to get it anytime soon to test stuff with it which is why I was curious about the double dip with momentum which I would also assume wouldn't apply twice, but it is a separate damage source from FoTI as opposed to Bloodlet which is a dot so I was just curious.

You can always test it on the PvP realm, the artifacts there are fully maxed out.

[Carthh]

You can always test it on the PvP realm, the artifacts there are fully maxed out.

Oh nice that's good to know thanks for the heads up.

Si, it will total all the damage for AoE (let's face it.. ST fights are *not* common in warcraft) and throw it to wherever *you* are. Not where it hit for FoTI) hits then focus it to a single target. Very very good for gaming (basically the ring on a smaller scale).

Does this mean RoTI does damage where ever your character model is? I just tested it and RoTI damage is applied in the same location that FoTI does damage not where your character is so I think I misunderstood what you were saying.

[Racthoh]

It's not a bit silly though, you've said it yourself, there are legitimate issues with the style. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a viable playstyle, at least on single target, where you don't have to Fel Rush for DPS. Right now it seems like if you want to do your maximum DPS you have to use it almost on CD. The problem is if you can't do that, or want to save it for some other reason relating to the mechanics of a fight, you lose damage.

A Rogue doesn't have to worry about that, a Feral Druid doesn't have to worry about that, a Monk doesn't have to worry about that... I think you see where this is going. I'm probably in the minority, but I couldn't care less about being a unique snowflake. I care about raid performance and how I'm going to feel playing the spec for long raid days/nights for 5+ days a week.

Any illusion that Nemesis being close on single target gives us options or choice in playstyle is fallacy, you still want to Fel Rush consistently for damage to be competitive at all. In my view, that's a problem.

while i'm in complete agreement with you, it's just too late in development for any real change to come. you'll be moving around the boss unnecessarily for the entire tier and likely entire expansion if you plan on raiding demon hunter. at this point it's just something you'll have to accept or move on to another class. for me, i've decided just to not raid with my guild and have fun with the class in other areas.

[Jhos]

It's not a bit silly though, you've said it yourself, there are legitimate issues with the style. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a viable playstyle, at least on single target, where you don't have to Fel Rush for DPS. Right now it seems like if you want to do your maximum DPS you have to use it almost on CD. The problem is if you can't do that, or want to save it for some other reason relating to the mechanics of a fight, you lose damage.

A Rogue doesn't have to worry about that, a Feral Druid doesn't have to worry about that, a Monk doesn't have to worry about that... I think you see where this is going. I'm probably in the minority, but I couldn't care less about being a unique snowflake. I care about raid performance and how I'm going to feel playing the spec for long raid days/nights for 5+ days a week.

Any illusion that Nemesis being close on single target gives us options or choice in playstyle is fallacy, you still want to Fel Rush consistently for damage to be competitive at all. In my view, that's a problem.

I've heard top players say that demon hunters are in good spot in raid,someone said that is the second melee after DKs.Now you have what you want,we can have our diverse playstyle AND performance

[Qck]

I've heard top players say that demon hunters are in good spot in raid,someone said that is the second melee after DKs.Now you have what you want,we can have our diverse playstyle AND performance

Demon Hunters' are in a good spot, I'd put them behind Rogues currently as well though.

Let me put this to you - Fel Rush no longer does damage. We get a new ability with the same stats; 10sec recharge, 2 charges, same damage, 50% modifier talent, Momentum procs from it. It does damage in a line in front of you so it hits all targets in range. Exactly the same thing Fel Rush does, just without the mobility tied into the damage ability.

The spec plays exactly the same as far as priority rotation goes, you just don't have to run back to the boss on smaller hitboxes, can stay grouped with the other melee as required, and you get to keep you main movement ability to use as required without sacrificing DPS.

Does this kill the spec for you? For me, it's ideal. I don't really care for being special though, so I'm probably the minority in WoW.

My point is, the only thing truly diverse about the playstyle is that we use an ability that moves our character as part of our rotation, it's nothing really revolutionary... and in actual fact, it's more of a hindrance than anything.

[Pigglix]

I like this idea, sir

[jayinjersey]

I'd prefer to leave FM and FR where they are and give the other two (specifically EB) talents a buff to be competitive.



I have no problem with FR doing damage and granting fury with the talent...just the other two (ok mainly 1 as CC is niche, but still needs love...the hitbox for one) to give options.

And I think the damage of FR needs to be tweaked so that even if you don't take FM, you still shouldn't be using FR as a damage ability in rotation (sim does this which I guess means it does more damage natural than say Chaos Nova or whatever)

[Qck]

I like this idea, sir

Wasn't necessarily an idea as such, although I would like it.

More just to illustrate the point that if the only reason the current DH rotation is considered "diverse" is because once every 10ish seconds you end up 15 yards from where you were(and every 25ish seconds you have to rotate your character and backflip as well, I guess), it's not really that diverse at all. It's nothing even especially new in WoW being that Warriors used Heroic Leap in MoP for damage and Monks, albeit in PvP mainly, used Chi Torpedo for burst as well. Funny how neither of those cases stood the test of time.

In my mind, it's not really that different to other melee, except that I have to waddle my way back to the main group every now and then... which is more an annoyance than some amazingly fun gameplay. /shrug We actually have some interesting mechanics aside from FR/VR too.. Eye Beam and FBarr, if you take it, are pretty different to start with.

I really like the class, and I do plan to main it regardless, I just have a different point of view as to what I consider good design in this game and using Fel Rush on cooldown is certainly not it.

[Feawen]

Now that Darkmoon Deck: Dominion can be upgraded to 850 ilvl with Obliterum does that change it's place in the Pre Raid BiS trinkets?

[Vanyali]

Now that Darkmoon Deck: Dominion can be upgraded to 850 ilvl with Obliterum does that change it's place in the Pre Raid BiS trinkets?

I believe the current sims are with upgraded crafted trinkets

[Feawen]

I believe the current sims are with upgraded crafted trinkets

Yeah I reviewed what you linked me before I asked/start a conversation on it. It only has the 815 version in the Heroic Sims, but not the 850 version in the Mythic Sims.

[Vanyali]

Yeah I reviewed what you linked me before I asked/start a conversation on it. It only has the 815 version in the Heroic Sims, but not the 850 version in the Mythic Sims.

Hmm. Appears so. I'll ping Pawkets next time I see him. Misreads FTW!

[Feawen]

Hmm. Appears so. I'll ping Pawkets next time I see him. Misreads FTW!

Not a problem, second silly question of the day. But I cannot find anything on where/cost of the Vindictive Insignia. Is it a reward from Prestige lvl1?

[Vanyali]

Not a problem, second silly question of the day. But I cannot find anything on where/cost of the Vindictive Insignia. Is it a reward from Prestige lvl1?

It's actually really awful to get, depending on your luck.

You'll either get it as a random drop from PvP boxes or it'll show up as a World Quest reward.



Talking with Kib (he loves the DMF trinket, his fav trinket!) he says that it moves up, but doesn't surpass, in part because the high crit on it skews your stats insanely and disrupts your stat balance in an awful way.

[Feawen]

It's actually really awful to get, depending on your luck.

You'll either get it as a random drop from PvP boxes or it'll show up as a World Quest reward.



Talking with Kib (he loves the DMF trinket, his fav trinket!) he says that it moves up, but doesn't surpass, in part because the high crit on it skews your stats insanely and disrupts your stat balance in an awful way.

I wonder high up it would/will end up being since the PvP sounds like a PITA to get.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder high up it would/will end up being since the PvP sounds like a PITA to get.

Yes I am quoting myself, anyways. Van when you see Pawk, let him know Sims are missing Hunger of the Pack also. My mythic one is 1,123 Agil and 898 Crit Strike.

[Ghiroza]

Just had the pvp trink pop up on a world quest, so I do not think it will be hard to get.

[Grogan25]

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere and if it is I apologize in advance but is throw glaive worth using without bloodlet? Since during the prepatch we won't have access to it. I'm assuming it's worth using for multiple targets but I'm not sure about single target.

[Baelroc]

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere and if it is I apologize in advance but is throw glaive worth using without bloodlet? Since during the prepatch we won't have access to it. I'm assuming it's worth using for multiple targets but I'm not sure about single target.

Only as filler if you took Demon Blades. Otherwise, spamming Demon's bite for more fury will be better.

[Deleted]

Hey i watched Lapi stream yesterday, he is a member of From Scratch and he did some beta test with his guild on Ursoc and Krosus. He said that thanks to (or because of) them, there will be some changes or fix in the future days. How do you think these changes will affect the DH later ?

Do you think overall the DH is too strong, or he doesnt need fix or changes ?