PSA: You want to use Fel Rush even without Momentum.

[Qck]

I feel like this needs to be somewhere more visible, because I keep seeing people saying that you can take talents other than Momentum if you don't like the playstyle, or saying that people won't use Momentum for raiding.

From what I have seen in the current sims, even if you take Blind Fury instead of Fel Mastery and Nemesis instead of Momentum, not using Fel Rush for damage is a ~13k loss DPS in pre-raid gear. The APL for not using Fel Rush might need some work.. though I'm not sure it will make a large difference.

If you do decide to do that over using Momentum/FM and using Fel Rush for damage you're looking at a ~35k DPS loss, nearly a 15% loss in damage.

The difference between Nemesis and Momentum is actually only in the range of 2-3k, negligible at best. If the encounter is pure single target the vast majority of people will probably do more damage by taking Nemesis.

Hopefully this clears some things up, because if you had hopes of being competitive while not using Fel Rush then you're going to be a bit sad come raid time.

[Gaxar]

Here's hoping that they nerf fel rush damage because while i dont mind fel rushing to move about the place, and hell if it did a bit of damage as well then thats a bonus - but if its required to be used on cd then that sucks.

Momentum playstyle is not really my bag so i likely will be going the nemesis route. Still some tuning for them to do and they seem aware of the playerbase feedback surrounding momentum (and hopefully therefore fel rush damage).

lets see what the next builds bring.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

but if its required to be used on cd then that sucks.

does it trigger you so much to have a little added complexity beyond the mind numbing variation of the DH you probably enjoy?

Infracted

[Leih]

does it trigger you so much to have a little added complexity beyond the mind numbing variation of the DH you probably enjoy?

There's no need to be a dick about it.

I happen to agree that if you don't choose Momentum, it shouldn't be expected that you use Fel Rush as part of your DPS rotation. Isn't that the whole point of momentum, to opt-in to that playstyle if you like it?

[Vanyali]

There's no need to be a dick about it.

I happen to agree that if you don't choose Momentum, it shouldn't be expected that you use Fel Rush as part of your DPS rotation. Isn't that the whole point of momentum, to opt-in to that playstyle if you like it?

Don't pick Fel Mastery?

That's the only time you have to use it in your rotation outside of Momentum.

Now, if you're saying "I want to do the most damage I can!" but not want to take the talents that do so, yes, it's a problem, but a self-made one.

[Wildberry]

does it trigger you so much to have a little added complexity beyond the mind numbing variation of the DH you probably enjoy?

Infracted

I'm all for complexity. Momentum/using Fel Rush for damage is just tedious and unenjoyable. It's not that it's just tedious-and-not-really-complex, it also serves to limit the ways in which talents can add proper complexity to the Demon Hunter rotation.

Nice shitpost though!

[Torrenash]

Don't pick Fel Mastery?

That's the only time you have to use it in your rotation outside of Momentum.

Now, if you're saying "I want to do the most damage I can!" but not want to take the talents that do so, yes, it's a problem, but a self-made one.

OP's defense, is saying that sims are showing it's a DPS loss to not use it even without FM/Momentum. I'd be skeptical of believing that, though, unless the sim is running Demon Blades and erego using FR in otherwise empty globals.

[Deleted]

OP's defense, is saying that sims are showing it's a DPS loss to not use it even without FM/Momentum. I'd be skeptical of believing that, though, unless the sim is running Demon Blades and erego using FR in otherwise empty globals.

You do know that Fel Rush does way more damage than Demon's Bite and will still give you similar fury per gcd, right?

[Gaxar]

I'm all for complexity. Momentum/using Fel Rush for damage is just tedious and unenjoyable. It's not that it's just tedious-and-not-really-complex, it also serves to limit the ways in which talents can add proper complexity to the Demon Hunter rotation.

Nice shitpost though!

And lets have it right, as this chap is saying, using fel rush is not ''çomplexity''. Movement skills are movement skills. I enjoy them for moving about.

maybe its just me but if blink had fel rush's damage and it was optimal to blink through each pack on cd, i'd have enjoyed my mage far less.
if disengage had fel rush's damage and it was optimal to disengage through every pack, i'd have enjoyed my hunter far less.
if the new shaman charge talent had fel rush's damage.....
if warriors leap had fel.....
if ....

you get my drift. Movement skill usage on cd for the sake of dps is not complexity. its annoying. Thats my feeling, i am quite sure there are many who love that style of play. Just give me a viable alternative, and by viable i mean competitive, not so far behind its retarded to play anything but. And by all means, make that viable alternative ''complex'' in the same way other classes have (or at least used to) have complexity without having to charge 15 yards every 15 seconds. Then the momentum lovers can have their way and those like me can have mine and we can all be happy?

[Deleted]

I don't really get the complaints that Fel Rush is a dps ability in general though. It's not like it's a surprise since it's been like that since the very first video of their gameplay!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMfIMqjHwY

[Pigglix]

I think the problem is not because it does damage but being part of the dps rotation.

And like others have said, at least imo, it does not add complexity, just annoyance.

But oh well, guess i'll deal with that since double jump and glide totally sold me out.

[mitre27]

does it trigger you so much to have a little added complexity beyond the mind numbing variation of the DH you probably enjoy?

Infracted

Complexity is fine, sacrificing your movement skills for that complexity? Bad design in my eyes.

I don't really get the complaints that Fel Rush is a dps ability in general though. It's not like it's a surprise since it's been like that since the very first video of their gameplay!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMfIMqjHwY

Without the talent, it's not worthwhile to use as damage, don't try to make out that it was designed from the start as a DPS skill, it is like heroic leap having damage, just because it has some damage on the tooltip doesn't mean it's used as a dps skill.

Two talents currently force fel rush on cd, both being quite a bit superior to other choices, you're pretty much being forced into that playstyle or you can do sub-par damage.

[Katchii]

The play style you're essentially required to follow to maximize Momentum efficacy is not enjoyable to me, I enjoy doing high DPS, but the amount of effort required to do that in this case vs the alternatives, just doesn't warrant the added difficulty. From what I've seen and read so far the difference between a Nemesis and Momentum build isn't that large and Nemesis seems much easier to pull off reliably.

[ChakanDH]

You do know that Fel Rush does way more damage than Demon's Bite and will still give you similar fury per gcd, right?

That's only with Fel Mastery though, he's talking about using Fel rush on CD without it(ie. no fury gen/reduced damage)

[Deleted]

That's only with Fel Mastery though, he's talking about using Fel rush on CD without it(ie. no fury gen/reduced damage)

Demon's Bite does 260% as Physical Damage, Fel Rush does 294% as Chaos Damage (which is improved by mastery), and that's without Fel Mastery...

[ChakanDH]

Demon's Bite does 260% as Physical Damage, Fel Rush does 294% as Chaos Damage (which is improved by mastery), and that's without Fel Mastery...

Correct, but then you're missing the fury generation.

I'm not saying you definitely shouldn't be using fel rush on CD untalented, but on the surface it does look like it wouldn't be worth it - especially when you factor in the lack of having fel rush for mobility.

[Vanyali]

Demon's Bite does 260% as Physical Damage, Fel Rush does 294% as Chaos Damage (which is improved by mastery), and that's without Fel Mastery...

Without FM it doesn't give fury, without fury you don't hit CS, without hitting CS you start fucking yourself.

[Lillpapps]

I wish they would bring down the damage portion of Fel mastery a bit so fel rush gets slightly better than DB. Makes it synergies with momentum without being the best talent in absolutely every scenario.

[ChakanDH]

From what I have seen in the current sims, even if you take Blind Fury instead of Fel Mastery and Nemesis instead of Momentum, not using Fel Rush for damage is a ~13k loss DPS in pre-raid gear. The APL for not using Fel Rush might need some work.. though I'm not sure it will make a large difference..

Could this be because the sim is assuming you would otherwise be doing nothing? Even looking at a blind fury/momentum sim it has fel rush damage at a little over 6%, which is still enhanced by 20% due to the momentum buff.

Need to see a sim that uses demon bite/fel eruption/blind fury to see how much damage using fel rush on CD would more accurately give.

[Deleted]

Correct, but then you're missing the fury generation.

I'm not saying you definitely shouldn't be using fel rush on CD untalented, but on the surface it does look like it wouldn't be worth it - especially when you factor in the lack of having fel rush for mobility.

Thing is...what talent would you take instead of Fel Mastery in that tier?