[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[keqe]

I did some BC and LK timewalks and while the damage was quite high it was nothing that couldn't be managed. I think it is important to note that even 100% stagger isn't instantly lethal. In the past high staggers like that were quite dangerous because we still took at least 50% of the damage directly even with high mastery.

But now we have 75% stagger with IsB up so while stagger ramps up quickly there no immediate danger when it rises. Using this knowledge and the Blackout combo stagger delay made timewalks quite manageable and fun. The trick is to get most out of the purifies.

Having/Using T18 set bonuses is important and helpful too. 2 set generates a lot of orbs and they heal a lot in TW.

[Brewschii]

From a Celestalon post. Except it's 0-60% now, I guess.

So what I wrote about GotM was wrong. Still think it's worth writing a plain-English version for people to understand (and for myself when I return to it after a while). How's this (I changed it in the original post too, but pulling it out here to make it easier to find):

Gift of the Mists moves your orb counter along an extra percentage based on the amount of health you're currently missing and will be missing after the next hit (think Warlord's Unseeing Eye re: a missing-health mechanic), but it's capped at 60%. Say you're at 50% health and you take a hit that would be 30% of your health. On the next hit you take, your orb tracker moves as it ordinarily would times PLUS 60% of the 30 (b/c you'll be missing 80% of your health after the hit, but the bonus increment from GotM is capped at 60%). 60% of 30 is 18. So the counter increments 30+18 for 48 total.

[Rynzler88]

So you just want a bar that represents stagger amount relative to your health percentage? If so then I've already done a Health Bar group that overlays stagger percentage on top of your health: https://wago.io/4kzBd4k_W

If you don't want the health functionality, just click "Extract from group" on Wago and grab the Stagger bar only.

Great W/A Red!

[Ampere]

You don't have to be low health on a Brewmaster for any reason at all, unless you have Gift of the Mists talented. I'm starting to wonder how long that piece of outdated information will stay around... If we will still hear people say it in the final tier of Legion...

It's not outdated information. Obstinate Determination is incredibly strong and has no cooldown.

[keqe]

It's not outdated information. Obstinate Determination is incredibly strong and has no cooldown.

Yeah but people think that brewmaster has to stay low for wrong reasons. It can be beneficial to bounce around 35% to game OD but not otherwise.

[DisposableHero]

I did some BC and LK timewalks and while the damage was quite high it was nothing that couldn't be managed. I think it is important to note that even 100% stagger isn't instantly lethal. In the past high staggers like that were quite dangerous because we still took at least 50% of the damage directly even with high mastery.

But now we have 75% stagger with IsB up so while stagger ramps up quickly there no immediate danger when it rises. Using this knowledge and the Blackout combo stagger delay made timewalks quite manageable and fun. The trick is to get most out of the purifies.

Having/Using T18 set bonuses is important and helpful too. 2 set generates a lot of orbs and they heal a lot in TW.

I strongly suspect the difference between your experience in timewalking and the previous poster's experience was the presence of tier sets. It is really hard to understate how much free brew is being generated by the tier sets and class trinkets right now, and I feel sorry for anyone trying to tank on a Brewmaster without them. This is more than filling the spot that Face Palm and Potent Kick are going to need to fill at 110.

[PinDrop]

So what I wrote about GotM was wrong. Still think it's worth writing a plain-English version for people to understand (and for myself when I return to it after a while). How's this (I changed it in the original post too, but pulling it out here to make it easier to find):

Gift of the Mists moves your orb counter along an extra percentage based on the amount of health you're currently missing and will be missing after the next hit (think Warlord's Unseeing Eye re: a missing-health mechanic), but it's capped at 60%. Say you're at 50% health and you take a hit that would be 30% of your health. On the next hit you take, your orb tracker moves as it ordinarily would times PLUS 60% of the 30 (b/c you'll be missing 80% of your health after the hit, but the bonus increment from GotM is capped at 60%). 60% of 30 is 18. So the counter increments 30+18 for 48 total.

If I understand it correctly this is a bit off. The bonus increment caps at 60%, depending on estimated health after the hit, as you said. So, if you were at 50% health, and took a hit for 30%(before stagger, etc), you would gain a 48% increase in the orb counter. 48% of 30 is 14.4, so the counter increments 30+14.4 for 48.4 total.

I don't know what formula gift uses exactly, but I came up with a multiplier of (1+((100-((HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger)*100/MaxHealth))*0.006)), which gives a linear increase from 0% at full health, to 60% at 0 health, which is where I got my numbers above.

[Leblue]

It's not outdated information. Obstinate Determination is incredibly strong and has no cooldown.

and if you try to convince people to abuse that 35% in actually challenging content and not world content/heroic dungeons they're going to end up smears on the ground.

[Brewschii]

If I understand it correctly this is a bit off. The bonus increment caps at 60%, depending on estimated health after the hit, as you said. So, if you were at 50% health, and took a hit for 30%(before stagger, etc), you would gain a 48% increase in the orb counter. 48% of 30 is 14.4, so the counter increments 30+14.4 for 48.4 total.

I don't know what formula gift uses exactly, but I came up with a multiplier of (1+((100-((HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger)*100/MaxHealth))*0.006)), which gives a linear increase from 0% at full health, to 60% at 0 health, which is where I got my numbers above.

Interesting. I think we still don't know how this works exactly. Celestalon said the formula is: (DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger/Maxhealth)*(2-(HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger) / Maxhealth).

Then later he said it's capped at 60%. I took that 60% to mean there's the equivalent of an "if" statement: If ((HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger) / Maxhealth) > 60%, then it's set to 60%. You interpreted it differently. I have no idea which is right. Maybe someone should check with the devs. Though it's not clear to me that the practical difference is large.

By the way, where's Totaltotemic when you need him!

[Leblue]

To more clearly explain.

If you don't have gift and have 100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 50 health towards that next GotOx orb.

If you have gift and have 100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 65 towards that next GotOx orb. It puts you at 65 towards the next because it'd put you at 50% of your health (before stagger/absorbs) and 50% of the maximum of 60% bonus is 30% (so 50 x 1.3 = 65).

If you have gift and have 50/100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 80 towards your next orb. It puts you at 80 towards your next orb because it'd put you at 0% of your health (before stagger/absorbs) and 100% of the GotM effect is 60% (so 50 x 1.6 = 80).

The 60% bonus starts from 0% at 100% of your health and scales up to 60% to an attack that would take you to 0% of your health before stagger and absorbs.

In sparkle dragon's post it still says 100% but that was before the nerf to it so its now 60%. It still behaves the same. Your end health percentage(before stagger and absorbs) determines the percentage of the Gift of the mist bonus you get.

[stross01]

and if you try to convince people to abuse that 35% in actually challenging content and not world content/heroic dungeons they're going to end up smears on the ground.

I do it almost exclusively in mythic0-6 and did it in all of the mythic testing that didn't have 2-sec input delay. I'm sure others can too.

[Brewschii]

To more clearly explain.

If you don't have gift and have 100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 50 health towards that next GotOx orb.

If you have gift and have 100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 65 towards that next GotOx orb. It puts you at 65 towards the next because it'd put you at 50% of your health (before stagger/absorbs) and 50% of the maximum of 60% bonus is 30% (so 50 x 1.3 = 65).

If you have gift and have 50/100 hp and take a 50 hp swing you now have 80 towards your next orb. It puts you at 80 towards your next orb because it'd put you at 0% of your health (before stagger/absorbs) and 100% of the GotM effect is 60% (so 50 x 1.6 = 80).

The 60% bonus starts from 0% at 100% of your health and scales up to 60% to an attack that would take you to 0% of your health before stagger and absorbs.

In sparkle dragon's post it still says 100% but that was before the nerf to it so its now 60%. It still behaves the same. Your end health percentage(before stagger and absorbs) determines the percentage of the Gift of the mist bonus you get.

Ah . . . then I was right originally, lol. Not going back and editing more.

[PinDrop]

Interesting. I think we still don't know how this works exactly. Celestalon said the formula is: (DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger/Maxhealth)*(2-(HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger) / Maxhealth).

Then later he said it's capped at 60%. I took that 60% to mean there's the equivalent of an "if" statement: If ((HealthBeforeDamage-DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger) / Maxhealth) > 60%, then it's set to 60%. You interpreted it differently. I have no idea which is right. Maybe someone should check with the devs. Though it's not clear to me that the practical difference is large.

By the way, where's Totaltotemic when you need him!

Your way is actually more powerful, since you'd get the full 60% bonus once you hit 40% health, instead of at 0% with mine. I doubt Gift will see much use outside of leveling/solo content, but it would sure be nice to know the formula for sure.

[Typhod]

From looking at the talents and abilities I can see that we can get a stagger amount of over 100%;

Stagger (baseline) [35%] + Ironskin Brew [40%] + Fortifying Brew [20%] + High Tolerance [10%] = 105%.

My question is, what happens above 100% staggering of all incoming damage?

[redfella]

Caps at 99.9, 1 dmg always comes through.

[DisposableHero]

From looking at the talents and abilities I can see that we can get a stagger amount of over 100%;

Stagger (baseline) [35%] + Ironskin Brew [40%] + Fortifying Brew [20%] + High Tolerance [10%] = 105%.

My question is, what happens above 100% staggering of all incoming damage?

This is important for Magic/Armor Piercing damage where stagger runs at 50% effectiveness.

[stross01]

From looking at the talents and abilities I can see that we can get a stagger amount of over 100%;

Stagger (baseline) [35%] + Ironskin Brew [40%] + Fortifying Brew [20%] + High Tolerance [10%] = 105%.

My question is, what happens above 100% staggering of all incoming damage?

Raider's Training Dummy Melee hit You 1 Physical. (181884 Absorbed)

[Deleted]

seems like they reverted the haste scaling for blackout strike (on beta)

[Xequecal]

So I noticed that Ironskin Brew doesn't actually have a maximum duration, if you just keep pressing the button the duration just keeps getting extended until you run out of charges. Is it actually viable to just use your Black Ox Brew to hit it six times in a row immediately when you taunt the boss and then just use your normal charge generation for purifies?

[keqe]

So I noticed that Ironskin Brew doesn't actually have a maximum duration, if you just keep pressing the button the duration just keeps getting extended until you run out of charges. Is it actually viable to just use your Black Ox Brew to hit it six times in a row immediately when you taunt the boss and then just use your normal charge generation for purifies?

Pretty much been a standard since June.

seems like they reverted the haste scaling for blackout strike (on beta)

Seems to scale with haste for me at least at the moment of this post on beta. It was 3 second on login for 10 seconds maybe but then screen spiked slightly and it became 2,6s CD. Most likely some "hotfix auras" applied with delay. Similar happened when the haste scaling came to live august 1.