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  1. #481
    Scarab Lord Greevir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL1200 View Post
    I'd like to see them eventually remove all addons. I always felt like using them was cheating. Maybe this will give blizz the excuse they need.
    I think it's too late to do that. Now, if Blizz ever does make another MMO I wouldn't be surprised to see it done without mod support.

  2. #482
    I see all the bitching about max distance being nerfed, then counter bitching about how dumb those players are, and it occurs to me that perhaps the naysayers don't *actually* understand the real issue...?

    I bet a lot of "normal" players think we are complaining about how much closer to the boss we are even though we have the mouse wheel "zoomed" all the way to max. Of course Blizz didn't change that distance much, if at all with their nerf.

    What the REAL problem is, is that there was an undocumented(?) console command that allowed you to set the camera distance variable to a very large number, which then zoomed out so far you could see the entire area on your screen and the boss was a very tiny creature in that huge vista. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST PEOPLE. The ability to zoom out far enough to be able to see the entire boss on our screen, which is very useful to melee dps and tanks.

    So, when you call us names and say we're dumb for complaining so loudly, just think if blizz made a change one night to how you have played the game since the beginning, completely changing how you are used to seeing the game world. It would upset you very much. Hopefully you will understand now, this is not born of teenaged angst...it is due to a real problem with how you actually play the game, and affects EVERY part of the game!
    "He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!"--Khan Noonien Singh

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Caanrial View Post

    What the REAL problem is, is that there was an undocumented(?) console command that allowed you to set the camera distance variable to a very large number, which then zoomed out so far you could see the entire area on your screen and the boss was a very tiny creature in that huge vista. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST PEOPLE. The ability to zoom out far enough to be able to see the entire boss on our screen, which is very useful to melee dps and tanks.
    That may be what you got used to, but that zoom was NEVER intended and certainly not how the encounters were designed... you are supposed to navigate the view using your mouse not see it like a fixed camera.

    Nope.. it's gone for good.. just like they took my flying at max level away. Maybe if you guys bitch enough you will get a "ViewFinder" achievement... something to the effect of clear all raid content in the first 3 patches and then you can zoom out all the way.

    That way you get to experience the encounters Blizzard's way before you go and trivialize the content with ultra zoomed out views.

  4. #484
    Scarab Lord Greevir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caanrial View Post
    I see all the bitching about max distance being nerfed, then counter bitching about how dumb those players are, and it occurs to me that perhaps the naysayers don't *actually* understand the real issue...?

    I bet a lot of "normal" players think we are complaining about how much closer to the boss we are even though we have the mouse wheel "zoomed" all the way to max. Of course Blizz didn't change that distance much, if at all with their nerf.

    What the REAL problem is, is that there was an undocumented(?) console command that allowed you to set the camera distance variable to a very large number, which then zoomed out so far you could see the entire area on your screen and the boss was a very tiny creature in that huge vista. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST PEOPLE. The ability to zoom out far enough to be able to see the entire boss on our screen, which is very useful to melee dps and tanks.

    So, when you call us names and say we're dumb for complaining so loudly, just think if blizz made a change one night to how you have played the game since the beginning, completely changing how you are used to seeing the game world. It would upset you very much. Hopefully you will understand now, this is not born of teenaged angst...it is due to a real problem with how you actually play the game, and affects EVERY part of the game!
    I've had a part of the game changed from the way I like it. And guess what? I got the fuck over it. Blizz makes a design choice, I adjust. My favorite spec went from a GCD locked, frantic button mashing, totem toting force of nature to a warrior. I'll adjust. I exclusively play melee, so I know how shit the camera zoom can be. I just kinda think to myself "Blizz hates melee." and I move on.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Caanrial View Post
    I see all the bitching about max distance being nerfed, then counter bitching about how dumb those players are, and it occurs to me that perhaps the naysayers don't *actually* understand the real issue...?

    I bet a lot of "normal" players think we are complaining about how much closer to the boss we are even though we have the mouse wheel "zoomed" all the way to max. Of course Blizz didn't change that distance much, if at all with their nerf.

    What the REAL problem is, is that there was an undocumented(?) console command that allowed you to set the camera distance variable to a very large number, which then zoomed out so far you could see the entire area on your screen and the boss was a very tiny creature in that huge vista. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST PEOPLE. The ability to zoom out far enough to be able to see the entire boss on our screen, which is very useful to melee dps and tanks.

    So, when you call us names and say we're dumb for complaining so loudly, just think if blizz made a change one night to how you have played the game since the beginning, completely changing how you are used to seeing the game world. It would upset you very much. Hopefully you will understand now, this is not born of teenaged angst...it is due to a real problem with how you actually play the game, and affects EVERY part of the game!
    Or consider the reason why that greater distance never had proper UI support via the normal slider.
    Given how there has always been other graphical options which can seriously impact performance, it was never about the gameplay performance aspect.
    I can't say when you could first change it beyond the slider, but it has been around for a long enough time still without the default UI supporting it.
    It was not offering something ADDITIONAL to the UI, that blizzard perhaps best thought for the sake of clutter or complexity should be hidden from most.
    But it was simply a numerical extension.
    Therefore it is blindingly obvious that it wasn't something intended, but perhaps tolerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    That isn't really a tip when we've been tilting and adjusting cameras for years though. I also did try to move the camera every which and it either made it worse in some way or didn't do anything that made it worth it.
    If it wasn't a tip then how come I could create immersion very easily? Look at these pictures and try it again.
    http://imgur.com/a/pkAQt

    Gotta say that it's a very odd example as well since the platform you're standing on is lower than everything else, which makes lowering the camera different than if the ground behind your character was on the same level. So in the last 2 pictures I just went to the side and problem of immersion was fixed (in that example).

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Birgwow View Post
    If it wasn't a tip then how come I could create immersion very easily? Look at these pictures and try it again.
    http://imgur.com/a/pkAQt

    Gotta say that it's a very odd example as well since the platform you're standing on is lower than everything else, which makes lowering the camera different than if the ground behind your character was on the same level. So in the last 2 pictures I just went to the side and problem of immersion was fixed (in that example).
    Eh, I haven't posted any pictures. The idea of that quest is to also stand there and listen to him. Not move all around the map just to see him the correct way. So technically that would break immersion if that's what you really wanted to create. For me, immersion isn't as huge deal as it is to some. For instance, it's like if you and a friend were to carry on a conversation, do you let him talk while you move 10-15 yards away so you can see him better?

    Your second picture is an awful way to look at the target and would cause some people headaches. The rest you can see some more sure, but the problem comes in that you are looking at extremely odd angles that would break immersion for a lot. Secondly, you have to remember this is a static target that doesn't move (other than swaying). Now let's take this same thing and move it into a raid environment. Would you want to spend most of the fight running around so you can see more of the target and be out of range? Or so you can see side targets?

    The problem I know a lot of people have with this is how much it affects melee (which I play). Range isn't affected nearly as bad (and I've played range). Trying to fight bosses bigger than you and trying to see everything you need to for the encounter and simply headache inducing for some.

    Lastly, are those the wildheart pieces? My druid has that same mog I think (minus a few pieces).

    Not saying you are wrong in your way of thinking, just looking at the other side of the coin here. What works for you, doesn't work for a lot of people. I know people who were in beta (and then live in raids) who had to stop after some fights because it was getting to be too much (and had nothing to do with the camera shake or whatever since a lot don't notice it).

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    -
    Well seeing as he stands still you don't have to move all around the map, just a few yards to the side. Sure it would break immersion a little bit, but that's the way their new camera system works. I just shared a tip on how to see the full dragon, as the original pictures made it seem impossible. And yes, if my friend was ten times larger than me I would probably stand far enough back to see him in his full glory.

    For the rest I'll just quote my original post, since you seem to think I'm on a different side of this issue than I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by Birgwow View Post
    You'll also see him from the (apparently) intended POV. Can't really do that effectively in combat though

    And I'm not entirely what transmog that is, but it was available on the template character

  9. #489
    Don't know if this have been posted yet, but the bug that enables this addon to work is being fixed in a hotfix soon.

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...204616#post-19

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by SL1200 View Post
    I'd like to see them eventually remove all addons. I always felt like using them was cheating. Maybe this will give blizz the excuse they need.
    Then don't use them Mr Purist.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by snackfeat View Post
    Don't know if this have been posted yet, but the bug that enables this addon to work is being fixed in a hotfix soon.

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...204616#post-19
    what are these *bugs* i havent read much on this

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by SL1200 View Post
    I'd like to see them eventually remove all addons. I always felt like using them was cheating. Maybe this will give blizz the excuse they need.
    The day that happens is the day that WoW will die and I don't think that is hyperbole.
    A vast majority of the people love the fact that they can customize the UI to fit what they feel is good and I am now only talking about visual addons (fonts & art) then there are the QoL addons (pets, transmog, achievements) and as you can see I have not yet mentioned raid related addons.
    Do you honestly think that Mythic guilds other then the current top 10 could complete bosses at the hardest level and even they would suffer as you have to keep in mind that the current boss mechanics are astronomically more difficult then the bosses in Vanilla or TBC or Wrath.
    The game has evolved to a point where addons are part and parcel of the time you spend in WoW.
    Want to play SWTOR again and get 7 free days of subscription access + free ingame goodies: http://www.swtor.com/r/d5LnJT

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexxus View Post
    what are these *bugs* i havent read much on this
    The addon is exploiting an API by giving it a negative value when it is only meant to be accepting positive values.
    Therefore the "bug" is that it is accepting negative numbers, and as a consequence having the effect of allowing a greater zoom distance than intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHandsB View Post
    If that's true they could state that without giving anything away.
    No they couldn't. Have you not seen how the community reacts to stuff like that. They get pestered constantly, and then if they don't deliver in the time the community feels is appropriate they get bashed on even harder. They have their reason, and they are sticking to it..they don't 'owe' anyone an explaination beyond that. Stop expecting them to give you an aswer to anythign and everything you think needs answered. You are lucky they give you the information they do.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by 4dahorde View Post
    No they couldn't. Have you not seen how the community reacts to stuff like that. They get pestered constantly, and then if they don't deliver in the time the community feels is appropriate they get bashed on even harder. They have their reason, and they are sticking to it..they don't 'owe' anyone an explaination beyond that. Stop expecting them to give you an aswer to anythign and everything you think needs answered. You are lucky they give you the information they do.
    Not sure if serious. As long as they expect people to pay for their services they will have to please their customers. Business 101..

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Birgwow View Post
    Not sure if serious. As long as they expect people to pay for their services they will have to please their customers. Business 101..
    Giving players what they want isn't always pleasing them.
    Look at the demands for less homogenisation, which means that there should be less common abilities.
    To have less common abilities those previously common between multiple specs or classes would need to be restricted to a smaller number.
    Having the consequence of less buttons.
    Then player complain about getting less buttons when they were given exactly what they asked for.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Giving players what they want isn't always pleasing them.
    Look at the demands for less homogenisation, which means that there should be less common abilities.
    To have less common abilities those previously common between multiple specs or classes would need to be restricted to a smaller number.
    Having the consequence of less buttons.
    Then player complain about getting less buttons when they were given exactly what they asked for.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8204616?page=8

    Oh look, they listened to the community.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Giving players what they want isn't always pleasing them.
    Look at the demands for less homogenisation, which means that there should be less common abilities.
    To have less common abilities those previously common between multiple specs or classes would need to be restricted to a smaller number.
    Having the consequence of less buttons.
    Then player complain about getting less buttons when they were given exactly what they asked for.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    "Players" is plural and not a homogenized group - i.e. people want different things. They will often have to go by what will please as many as possible, as well as frustrate as few as possible. The consumers hold all the power and by going against them they would only damage their business. Now apply that to this thread. The majority isn't bothered either way. A minority, however, is very frustrated.

    And I have no idea why people think they can't handle the players' critique. They run a service which we pay for. If we don't like that service we won't pay for it anymore, it's very simple. It's very evident that they do indeed have to give answers, reasons, information, etc. to their customers. We're not privileged with the responses we get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8204616?page=8

    Oh look, they listened to the community.
    Expected and very welcome change. Personally I will probably be content with only a slight increase in distance.
    Last edited by Birgwow; 2016-08-05 at 01:51 AM.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8204616?page=8

    Oh look, they listened to the community.
    While i was reliefed upon reading it at first i sincerely hope that their new value is not just going to be something like 30,5 and is at least going to be 38-40.
    As reference the old maximum via console command was 50, the old maximum via slider was 34,99 and the current maximum via slider is 28,5.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8204616?page=8

    Oh look, they listened to the community.
    Still not disproving my point.
    They are catering to what they term "power users", not applying it as a general change via the default UI.
    Therefore not as "required" as people have been making it out to be.
    Point still stands.

    If it was absolutely as required as that, then WHY is it not in the default UI, why has that NEVER been in the default UI.
    A simple question with a simple answer.
    Because it was not.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Ultimately, we would prefer to address the underlying issues rather than relying on increased zoom to mask those issues
    That is being done to fix a different issue, and a cheap fix at that.
    The quantity of yelling did not change that.
    A demand that it was simply required did not.
    Instead better arguments, and blizzard's inability to properly fix A DIFFERENT problem has prompted that.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2016-08-05 at 01:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

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