Legion raiding : ML or PL?

[Papadragon]

Talking to GM and RL that will lead an organized group (20M Mythic). What will you choose to distribute loots?

Master Loot : Loot Council / Points System

or

Personal Loot: new 7.0.3 system with tradeable item

What's your thoughts on this? And Why?

[Deleted]

Talking to GM and RL that will lead an organized group (20M Mythic). What will you choose to distribute loots?

Master Loot : Loot Council / Points System

or

Personal Loot: new 7.0.3 system with tradeable item

What's your thoughts on this? And Why?

Master loot. Always master loot.

It allows you more control over where you want gear.

Generally we gear our DPS > Tanks>= Healers. So if gear on personal loot lands on a healer its not as useful as it might be on a dps.

Also personal loot only lets you trade if it wasnt an upgrade for you. So again if an item lands on a healer or tank but it was an upgrade we cant trade it to a dps (who you want to gear first).

We loot council our gear. Make sure its a strong loot council without people who just favor their friends. Good class knowledge will help you make the best informed decision with loot.

[Summer]

Master loot, of course. Loot council will decide where the loot helps our progress best as before.

The only exception I'm thinking is we might do the first week in heroic / normal with PL to get more drops, and also because we have like 15 people on fire relic and 5 on fel etc. so who needs what is pretty unevenly distributed. But not really decided on that and it's a minor detail if we do end up doing it.

But overall we want to gear people up with upcoming fights in mind and PL just won't allow that. It's a complete waste if someone who's just going on a 2 week holiday gets a super duper titanforged item, for example.

[Saiona]

ML use loot council with non-biased people with brains. Gear dps first

[munkeyinorbit]

Lol. Unless you doing split runs before you even get into mythics the obvious choice is PL. It is a no brainer. More loot for the whole raid is far superior than "targeted" (give your friends or the guild gf loot) looting. No self respecting mythic guild would need advice on how to distribute loot.

[Deleted]

Lol. [..] No self respecting mythic guild would need advice on how to distribute loot.

Do you know that you can't trade PL at all in several cases? That includes obvious problems like a healer not being able to gear a dps because that might be the guild strategy, not being able to trade something when you have something better because it has a socket and in general when distribution of gear is not based only on ilevel/current item. That's the main problem with it.

[Ardlec]

Lol. Unless you doing split runs before you even get into mythics the obvious choice is PL. It is a no brainer. More loot for the whole raid is far superior than "targeted" (give your friends or the guild gf loot) looting. No self respecting mythic guild would need advice on how to distribute loot.

The entire argument fails to be able to respect some of the realities of raiding and how much of an upgrade certain pieces are. Here are two examples of situations where materloot will help guild as a whole:

1) 3 Pieces of tier on any raider.
2) Raider A has an 830 relic and Raider B has an 860 Relic, an 865 relic comes from the boss you are about to do.


In addition to the above legitimate examples you would be able to consdier personal loot a failing during mythic progression:
1) Every time you get a <10 ilvl upgrade that could have went somewhere esle
2) Every time a healer gets loot at all.


Using PL may be a no-brainer for you, but that seems to be because you and your "Self Respecting" mythic guild are not using their brains. Me and my Casual Mythic Progression guild will use masterlooter because there is no justifiable reason not to.

[Deleted]

The entire argument fails to be able to respect some of the realities of raiding and how much of an upgrade certain pieces are. Here are two examples of situations where materloot will help guild as a whole:

1) 3 Pieces of tier on any raider.
2) Raider A has an 830 relic and Raider B has an 860 Relic, an 865 relic comes from the boss you are about to do.


In addition to the above legitimate examples you would be able to consdier personal loot a failing during mythic progression:
1) Every time you get a <10 ilvl upgrade that could have went somewhere esle
2) Every time a healer gets loot at all.


Using PL may be a no-brainer for you, but that seems to be because you and your "Self Respecting" mythic guild are not using their brains. Me and my Casual Mythic Progression guild will use masterlooter because there is no justifiable reason not to.

completly agree. progression ML. PL if youve killed a boss like 5+times already and are gearing new people/alts.

[CParker1987]

2) Every time a healer gets loot at all.

I find this funny... while I do see the point of DPS getting gear first... it also wont help the raid if the healers cant out heal the damage coming in. Instead of DPS>Tanks>Healers... it should be more DPS>Tanks=Healers

[KaPe]

Titanforged items made me dread doing Loot Council in Legion. Dealing with +6ilvls could already lead to some headaches and now there can be absurd differences in item quality. Sure, it's probably a rare situation, but getting that uber item dropping and deciding about +30 upgrade, +35, +20 but on better players... And what about healers who have yet to get anything and are getting annoyed by constantly passing everything for "good of the guild", because it's always an upgrade? It's going to be a mess unless your raiders are absurdly disciplined and have huge trust in officers.

Loot changes mean it's not a "no brainer" question.

[Deleted]

I find this funny... while I do see the point of DPS getting gear first... it also wont help the raid if the healers cant out heal the damage coming in. Instead of DPS>Tanks>Healers... it should be more DPS>Tanks=Healers

Yes but damage taken in a fight doesnt change. You can avoid more damage, stack to make healing easier use healing cds and personals better to reduce damage taken.

Gearing DPS over healers actually reduces damage taken in a fight. That extra dps can kill adds faster and kill the boss faster. Meaning less damage overall in the fight. It can allow you to skip phases/abilities.

There is no point gearing healers to compensate for bad players making mistakes often and taking extra damage or a bad/inefficient tactic.

[l33t]

ML of course. Gearing damage dealers at start is top priority, which determines how good your raid's overall progress will be. Personal loot, while looking great on paper and being overall much better now with tradeable items, will still gear your healers ahead of everyone, give awesome dps trinkets to a worthless ele shaman alt, give people with 860 gear equipped a 865 upgrade over people who have 830 ilvl in that gear slot, give people with no tier pieces a piece over people who can gather 2/4 set bonuses instead, etc, etc. In other words, PL is for pugs, not for a serious raiding guilds.

[Dezminion]

For guild groups I fail to see why would anyone run with anything but ML with a loot council.

[Kuruption]

We might try personal on the first week in there, but our goal is just clearing heroic since a lot of us don't care about mythic.

But man, if I was in a mythic guild, and they did personal loot, I'd probably think twice about staying (and this is coming from a healer).