[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Tellof]

You mean something a minority of players will get? It is sad that feral's "AOE's redemption" will come from a set bonus.

Arguably, the people who have to worry most about feral AoE are those who will be pushing difficult content and be under scrutiny by the team, i.e. raiders. Everyone else doing lower Mythic+ or whatever else don't really have to worry.

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how did you find his gear from warcraftlogs? I always try to find them on armory, but considering this is beta, there's no beta armory right xD?

If you click on the player's name and then go to the "Summary" tab it will sometimes have their gear listed. The person gathering the logs has to turn that feature on, so it isn't always included. You can also see their talents and what artifact traits they've taken.

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This is litterly the only log I also could find the past week that caught my interest.

Was actually wondering if it had to do with the Affixes for him to go full on multi-dotting since I don't think it is Blizzards intention to design Brutal Slash to be weaker than multi-DoTing. But it could also be he wanted to minimize the trade off of losing single target damage.

Do note that the rogue and mage are 10 and 20 ilvl behind respectively and they both are also fully (rupture) or heavily (ignite/living bomb) DoTing trash with ramp up time. I think this is a real beneficial situation but would have worked out badly with a different setup. But it is interesting to see.

My general goal with sharing that log is to hopefully dispel some doubt on Feral's viability in higher Mythic+. Perhaps they won't be bleeding-edge competitive, but it's at least good to see that he was properly scaling with gear. If he were out-gearing the other DPS, playing optimally, and still under-performing that would have been very disheartening. Look at what happened in HFC: specs like Assassination, Survival, etc became completely unused even in non-mythic because they scaled so poorly that they were doing vastly less damage than even the middle of the pack. All I want to see is everyone have a place at the table, and I think a good Feral has a shot at that.

[teddabear]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rYk9XyQtBhfjZPgn

Sure, he's got a lot of gear and the legendary for more combo points, but he's also putting a huge emphasis on multi-dotting by even taking Lunar Inspiration. Meanwhile he's still running Savage Roar and Blood Talons, so it doesn't appear he's really having to make a huge tradeoff.

I feel like Feral is in a better place than some people want to admit.

He has a 10 item level advantage and 6 more artifact points and he did 10% more damage.

Check HFC logs and a 10 item level advantage is 100% more damage. In Simulationcraft a 15 item level is 100% more damage.

If the scaling is even remotely similarly the Rogue would have completely destroyed him with similar gear.

[Tellof]

He has a 10 item level advantage and 6 more artifact points and he did 10% more damage.

Check HFC logs and a 10 item level advantage is 100% more damage. In Simulationcraft a 15 item level is 100% more damage.

If the scaling is even remotely similarly the Rogue would have completely destroyed him with similar gear.

I've noticed a lot of your posts around the Druid forums lately, and I remember them being generally negative. Almost your entire first page of post history is you talking about how bad Feral is in some form or another... I actually stopped counting somewhere around 15. I'm not even sure why you're bothering at this point because your dissatisfaction with the spec has been painfully obvious. As you recommended to someone else in a Druid thread asking if they should go Balance or Feral: "Go Rogue or Mage, you will be glad you did."

What are you trying to accomplish? Seriously. Not once did I suggest that Feral is top tier and will out-scale Assassination. I shared one log where a Feral was demonstrating that they are viable in high level Mythic+. Who cares if the Rogue COULD do better? The fact that the feral wasn't doing only 180K DPS even with all of that gear makes me pretty happy, because people like you have been parading around the forum spreading doom and gloom. Why should raid leaders and people starting PUGs take Feral seriously if someone with 1300 posts in the Druid forums does nothing but talk shit on it? Seriously man, it's not helping anyone.

[Deleted]

Feral has only one problem, AOE, Single target is ok and brutal sash doesn't solve anything. I took it today for a spin, my single target dropped byt considerable amount but on adds that usually live past 4-5 sec in mythic +3 guess what, brutal slash was useless. Recharge time is infinity on trash and doesnt really matter on bosses. There is 99 solutions to this problems and Blizzard doesn't want to implement any of this.

[teddabear]

I've noticed a lot of your posts around the Druid forums lately, and I remember them being generally negative. Almost your entire first page of post history is you talking about how bad Feral is in some form or another... I actually stopped counting somewhere around 15. I'm not even sure why you're bothering at this point because your dissatisfaction with the spec has been painfully obvious. As you recommended to someone else in a Druid thread asking if they should go Balance or Feral: "Go Rogue or Mage, you will be glad you did."

What are you trying to accomplish? Seriously. Not once did I suggest that Feral is top tier and will out-scale Assassination. I shared one log where a Feral was demonstrating that they are viable in high level Mythic+. Who cares if the Rogue COULD do better? The fact that the feral wasn't doing only 180K DPS even with all of that gear makes me pretty happy, because people like you have been parading around the forum spreading doom and gloom. Why should raid leaders and people starting PUGs take Feral seriously if someone with 1300 posts in the Druid forums does nothing but talk shit on it? Seriously man, it's not helping anyone.

Did you play WoD? Blizzard didn't finish the spec and left in terrible shape the entire expansion. Then for legion it receives almost no work while many specs that were fine get complete overhauls. It still has ramp up and terrible target switching, and even if they take a level 100 AoE talent they have crappy AoE. My "negative" posts are rebutting false information. People deserve to know what they are getting into before they waste another entire expansion on a broken spec. Half the theorycrafters are quitting the spec. What effect do think that will have long term? The fact is raid leaders do not take Feral seriously, or PUGs for that matter. Players should be making their dissatisfaction known or looking for another spec if they don't want to spend another expansion struggling for a raid spot.

[Epoch]

Feral has only one problem, AOE, Single target is ok and brutal sash doesn't solve anything. I took it today for a spin, my single target dropped byt considerable amount but on adds that usually live past 4-5 sec in mythic +3 guess what, brutal slash was useless. Recharge time is infinity on trash and doesnt really matter on bosses. There is 99 solutions to this problems and Blizzard doesn't want to implement any of this.

I have been, and still am of the opinion that the current devs in charge of class design couldn't come up with an original idea if it was right in front of them. Watching the train of fail that is their ideas makes me /facepalm irl, and continues to remind me of the massive attitude and egos of the d3 devs who acted like they were gods gift to gaming while ridiculing and talking down to the d2 devs who did literally 95% of the work.
It's comparable to that friend you have who really likes this gorgeous girl, she in turn only keeps him around to boost her ego by throwing him hints here or there, but generally really does nothing.

Blizzard is, and has been for a very long time, in a unique position to talk to feral theorycrafters about what to do - or just bounce ideas off of eachother. These same theorycrafters (that are on fluiddruid) interestingly enough, have offered hundreds of opinions over the years, most of which go into extreme detail of how to fix a number of problems. The response that is and has been the norm from these same devs can be summed up to the following:

"Oh....you did our work for us. We didn't even have to pay you! But since we came from (insert game here that has nothing to do with class design, an mmo, or they have a degree in an entirely different background) and our egos are too big, we won't listen. We will however keep giving out tidbits of hope and doing the exact opposite of what we previously stated."

Watching them post on twitter, or mentioning their ideas for each change to feral would be hilarious if they weren't / aren't actually serious. It's like the kid that touches the burner on the stove which he knows is hot and burns himself, but continues to touch it.

When it gets to the point where you are at over 700 days played on a character you love, but are seriously considering either changing to outlaw rogue or dh just to be able to continue raiding (but not in mythic with current changes) that is a good indication that their is a problem, and that someone has failed at their job.

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I've noticed a lot of your posts around the Druid forums lately, and I remember them being generally negative. Almost your entire first page of post history is you talking about how bad Feral is in some form or another... I actually stopped counting somewhere around 15. I'm not even sure why you're bothering at this point because your dissatisfaction with the spec has been painfully obvious. As you recommended to someone else in a Druid thread asking if they should go Balance or Feral: "Go Rogue or Mage, you will be glad you did."

What are you trying to accomplish? Seriously. Not once did I suggest that Feral is top tier and will out-scale Assassination. I shared one log where a Feral was demonstrating that they are viable in high level Mythic+. Who cares if the Rogue COULD do better? The fact that the feral wasn't doing only 180K DPS even with all of that gear makes me pretty happy, because people like you have been parading around the forum spreading doom and gloom. Why should raid leaders and people starting PUGs take Feral seriously if someone with 1300 posts in the Druid forums does nothing but talk shit on it? Seriously man, it's not helping anyone.

Put yourself in the shoes of a person who has played the same spec since 2005. Now consider over the years since then, the amount of changes that have been made to the spec, which incidentally 90% + of the time were caused by players (who mained other specs / classes) whining on the forums because they would rather have a change made in their favor instead of learning how to fight a feral in pvp, which has always resulted in negative changes to pve.

Now, with that in mind consider the following - blizzard notices that over the course of years since wotlk, for example, feral really excelled at certain things (single target, arp, and so on) however because they never really understood how to tune feral, due to not actually playing feral themselves, they got too excited with tuning and over-nerfed the spec.

Now, you might be thinking "hey if that happens once or twice that isn't so bad!" I agree, once or twice wouldn't be so bad. But, every single patch or expansion for as far back as I care to remember we have had to adapt with their incompetent changes and over-nerfing only to be midpack through an entire expansion, hoping to catch up with other classes / specs midway or sadly at the end of an expansion.

The repeated slap in the face to ferals was the response of "We will fix this issue in the next expansion."

What were they doing that was so important they couldn't get aroung to looking at a forum where theorycrafters did the work for them, for free mind you?

Mobile auction house, barber shop, pet battles. Want to change color in forms but we don't want to fix your spec? WE GOT YOU BRO! Moved their more experienced devs over to titan, and brought in a group of new devs who were more in the role of customer service.

Nobody who chooses to play a spec they love should ever have to go through that. If i pulled that same crap and had the same ego in IT I would have long ago been out of a job.

The bottom line is it boils down to 2 things:

Numbers. They notice "hey we have a group of players who are less than 5% of the playerbase, should we devote millions to fix the issues that we've caused?" Like any corporation they decide to either put it off hoping to fix it later or to ignore it.

Laziness / incompetence. They could fix it, but either don't care or simply don't know what to do.

Whether you choose to accept the following or not is up to you. At one point in time we were pigeonholed into the idea of "that spec is a hybrid, since with a change of talents, gear and provided the player spent enough time learning the other spec, he / she could fill a needed role. Therefore they should never do as much damage, as much healing or be as good at tanking as other tank specs."

Now, since that idea has essentially been destroyed over the years and is not still around. Why are we as feral still being forced to endure that same mindset?

Want to do top single target dps? Ok, but you can't also be good at aoe. You will also have to work really hard unlike other specs who will do the same amount of damage or more, while you are trying twice as hard.

Want to be good at doing single target and aoe on a level comparable to rogues, warriors, mages and so on? Not happening, you can either pick single target or aoe, but you can't do both because we said so. Never mind that rogues, warriors, mages and so on are able to do so and have been able to for years, we said NO.

It's like being in an abusive relationship. Over the course of time you get fed up with the incompetence, the egos, the talking down to by someone who should know better. Why should we be forced to endure someone's ineptness? If they are in the position of class changes, but don't know what they are doing, or don't care, then admit that and either learn how to fix the issues they caused or gtfo of the way and get someone in there who can do the job.

[Lucrece]

I switched away from my druid in 737 gear into a 695 gear one, and it just revealed to me how horrendous BT/JW/SR combo will be to play. Anything with BT and JW, really.

I don't think people understand how much end tier raid gear is masking the serious issues with these talents.

I don't understand how they possibly thought Jagged Wounds or BT was a good idea, because come legion during leveling and early raid tiers you are going to be so energy starved, juggling those horrendous talents is going to make for the worst playstyle I've come across in the game.

I can cope with SR because it just replaces FB, but Jagged Wounds is a cancer. They even increased the energy cost of savage roar, it's truly laughable when it's the only good talent in that tier.

BT has been an atrocity for as long as it has existed. Having to waste a global on an overheal just to buff up rake and rip and time the activation of predatory swiftness to coincide with the application of a desynced rip and rake is plain obnoxious.

The spec is absolute misery to play in single target under the meta build, and it will be even more horrendous once cleave/aoe comes into play.

[Ifritlol]

I switched away from my druid in 737 gear into a 695 gear one, and it just revealed to me how horrendous BT/JW/SR combo will be to play. Anything with BT and JW, really.

I don't think people understand how much end tier raid gear is masking the serious issues with these talents.

I don't understand how they possibly thought Jagged Wounds or BT was a good idea, because come legion during leveling and early raid tiers you are going to be so energy starved, juggling those horrendous talents is going to make for the worst playstyle I've come across in the game.

I can cope with SR because it just replaces FB, but Jagged Wounds is a cancer. They even increased the energy cost of savage roar, it's truly laughable when it's the only good talent in that tier.

BT has been an atrocity for as long as it has existed. Having to waste a global on an overheal just to buff up rake and rip and time the activation of predatory swiftness to coincide with the application of a desynced rip and rake is plain obnoxious.

The spec is absolute misery to play in single target under the meta build, and it will be even more horrendous once cleave/aoe comes into play.

That's why I am going Boomkin Tho druid is my alt.

[Gemini Soul]

I switched away from my druid in 737 gear into a 695 gear one, and it just revealed to me how horrendous BT/JW/SR combo will be to play. Anything with BT and JW, really.

I don't think people understand how much end tier raid gear is masking the serious issues with these talents.

I don't understand how they possibly thought Jagged Wounds or BT was a good idea, because come legion during leveling and early raid tiers you are going to be so energy starved, juggling those horrendous talents is going to make for the worst playstyle I've come across in the game.

I can cope with SR because it just replaces FB, but Jagged Wounds is a cancer. They even increased the energy cost of savage roar, it's truly laughable when it's the only good talent in that tier.

BT has been an atrocity for as long as it has existed. Having to waste a global on an overheal just to buff up rake and rip and time the activation of predatory swiftness to coincide with the application of a desynced rip and rake is plain obnoxious.

The spec is absolute misery to play in single target under the meta build, and it will be even more horrendous once cleave/aoe comes into play.

JW/Inc/MoC works well too, less risk/reward than JW/BT with energy capping/Pandemic/PreSwi timing also allows you to use your PreSwi when you want/need. JW is definitely the go to talent for solo/lvling because of faster bleeds. I usually just Rake/Shred and when i do get to 5cp i either FB or save till next mob to drop a 5cp rip on while pulling the next mob depending on my current targets HP/if i have more than 1 on me.

My biggest problem with the LI talent is that it doesn't work with our Mastery or JW

[wombats23]

I switched away from my druid in 737 gear into a 695 gear one, and it just revealed to me how horrendous BT/JW/SR combo will be to play. Anything with BT and JW, really.

I don't think people understand how much end tier raid gear is masking the serious issues with these talents.

I don't understand how they possibly thought Jagged Wounds or BT was a good idea, because come legion during leveling and early raid tiers you are going to be so energy starved, juggling those horrendous talents is going to make for the worst playstyle I've come across in the game.

I can cope with SR because it just replaces FB, but Jagged Wounds is a cancer. They even increased the energy cost of savage roar, it's truly laughable when it's the only good talent in that tier.

BT has been an atrocity for as long as it has existed. Having to waste a global on an overheal just to buff up rake and rip and time the activation of predatory swiftness to coincide with the application of a desynced rip and rake is plain obnoxious.

The spec is absolute misery to play in single target under the meta build, and it will be even more horrendous once cleave/aoe comes into play.

well of course you're going to struggle if you switch from a geared toon to a weaker toon. you've become accustomed to high crit that you had as a geared character.

i really didn't see any issue with leveling (or raiding) with JW at all, even with the greens blizzard gave fresh 100s (went SR/EG or JW/MoC). you just had to sit on your energy more often than not instead of spamming shred (you do realize you're playing an energy class right?). i started off using EG instead of JW just to get used to balancing rake/rip/SR on my targets (i hadn't played feral since... wrath-ish), but i quickly found that for leveling i could just multi dot mobs and i'd get a steady stream of energy from predator (and sometimes MoC). if my SR would fall off, no sweat. this isn't raiding where you have to min/max everything. if you got energy capped for a few seconds because of MoC, big whoop. it's all about smoothing out your leveling experience by reducing the amount of times you're stuck without energy to rake/rip/SR, having the occasional mess up is okay.

for group play, i just had to sit on my energy (seriously, sitting on energy should be second nature as energy specs unless you're combat in full BiS). even with BT, it didn't feel all too awkward unless i was trying especially hard to multi dot adds that would appear.

BT i can definitely see why it'd be an annoyance to level with, but i don't see why you'd want to level with BT anyway. you yourself were complaining about energy, so why not choose the talent that helps with energy? besides, the free HT will rarely be an overheal as you level. TBH, it just sounds like you hate BT in general, so it's bizarre that you choose to still play a feral druid. raiding wise, i don't have an issue with BT (btw, you know you can heal someone else in group play right?)

tbh, it just sounds like you're playing the wrong spec for your sort of preferred play style. cleave/aoe is horrendous as feral, i'll give you that, but i don't think any feral player would disagree with that.

also, the spec gets way smoother as you get artifact traits. you get 15% crit to shred within your first 13 points.

snip

sorry to tell you this, but the hybrid tax will always exist, no matter how loudly blizzard denies its. you want to have a DPS spec that's solid all around? play a pure DPS class. if you haven't realized this after having played for over 10+ years, you're either naive or a fool. i'm not defending blizzard or anything, i'm just saying this as one player who stuck with hybrid DPS specs (ele, feral, and shadow) over the years but finally just accepted the reality of the situation.

[Deleted]

JW are super good because of obvious reasons but SR is 10% above other talents now so simply instead of FB you will click SR this is a button swap in rotation as you will never be able to click FB with early energy regen in Legion. Maybe you will find a slot every 2 minutes but this is like 1-2 FB per boss fight and FB deals close to 0 dmg anyway so no lose if you will not click it.

I personally dislike SR but 10% is 10%.

[Gemini Soul]

JW are super good because of obvious reasons but SR is 10% above other talents now so simply instead of FB you will click SR this is a button swap in rotation as you will never be able to click FB with early energy regen in Legion. Maybe you will find a slot every 2 minutes but this is like 1-2 FB per boss fight and FB deals close to 0 dmg anyway so no lose if you will not click it.

I personally dislike SR but 10% is 10%.

Which makes the FB artifact trait useless in raids.

While on beta i did suggest that they make SR a replacement for TF, like Incarnation is for Berserk and adjust it accordingly. Letting us pick between a passive talent, a stronger 3 min cd or a stronger 30 sec CD, or they should swap Elunes Guidance with Savage Roar making the 90 Teir about finishers and 75 Teir about energy control. If they would of done either of those and Tuned feral accordingly it would of made for a better feral.


Edit:I've noticed that at some points I'm hitting where I'm at 5 CP both SR and Rip are not pandemic yet but close and im about to energy cap if i FB then i either end up loosing a lil uptime on either SR/Rip because i used that 5cp and energy or i hit energy cap and end up loosing DPS from that

[Owens]

This may be a dumb question, but has SR/JW been tested on beta at 110 with appropriate gear? I know sims says it's the optimal combo and that's what I keep seeing people say. It feels so clunky with the gear I have right now and was just wondering if it's been proven to get smoother at 110.

[Lucrece]

well of course you're going to struggle if you switch from a geared toon to a weaker toon. you've become accustomed to high crit that you had as a geared character.

i really didn't see any issue with leveling (or raiding) with JW at all, even with the greens blizzard gave fresh 100s (went SR/EG or JW/MoC). you just had to sit on your energy more often than not instead of spamming shred (you do realize you're playing an energy class right?). i started off using EG instead of JW just to get used to balancing rake/rip/SR on my targets (i hadn't played feral since... wrath-ish), but i quickly found that for leveling i could just multi dot mobs and i'd get a steady stream of energy from predator (and sometimes MoC). if my SR would fall off, no sweat. this isn't raiding where you have to min/max everything. if you got energy capped for a few seconds because of MoC, big whoop. it's all about smoothing out your leveling experience by reducing the amount of times you're stuck without energy to rake/rip/SR, having the occasional mess up is okay.

for group play, i just had to sit on my energy (seriously, sitting on energy should be second nature as energy specs unless you're combat in full BiS). even with BT, it didn't feel all too awkward unless i was trying especially hard to multi dot adds that would appear.

BT i can definitely see why it'd be an annoyance to level with, but i don't see why you'd want to level with BT anyway. you yourself were complaining about energy, so why not choose the talent that helps with energy? besides, the free HT will rarely be an overheal as you level. TBH, it just sounds like you hate BT in general, so it's bizarre that you choose to still play a feral druid. raiding wise, i don't have an issue with BT (btw, you know you can heal someone else in group play right?)

tbh, it just sounds like you're playing the wrong spec for your sort of preferred play style. cleave/aoe is horrendous as feral, i'll give you that, but i don't think any feral player would disagree with that.

also, the spec gets way smoother as you get artifact traits. you get 15% crit to shred within your first 13 points.



sorry to tell you this, but the hybrid tax will always exist, no matter how loudly blizzard denies its. you want to have a DPS spec that's solid all around? play a pure DPS class. if you haven't realized this after having played for over 10+ years, you're either naive or a fool. i'm not defending blizzard or anything, i'm just saying this as one player who stuck with hybrid DPS specs (ele, feral, and shadow) over the years but finally just accepted the reality of the situation.

I played feral during WoD and liked its playstyle just fine before they went and pruned feral druids to hell, turned 2 baseline features of the spec into talents (affinities and savage roar), nerfed Stampeding Roar for no reason and made Feral the dumpster fire spec it is to play right now in Legion.

[Gemini Soul]

With talents JW/SR

On the PvP 110 premades, i've been hitting these points where I'm at 5cp and about to hit pandemic on SR or Rip but i would energy cap by the time it hits or right before it hits pandemic. What would be better in this situation refreshing early or dumping energy via Thrash/Shred.

Also some cycles i will hit a spot where both SR/Rip end up to sync timer wise maybe a second or apart and if i don't refresh earlier i will end up loosing up time on one of them.


Edit: The 100 Talents BS vs MoC i don't care for BT, which one would one would yield more DPS BS using on ST over Shred for CP when the charges pop or MoC. I can see MoC adding room with the SR/JW build.

Edit: As for Legendaries i was wondering how the Ring (+100 Energy in cat form) plays out, because i can see it becoming very useful for a SR/JW build by giving us that extra 100 energy it lets us pool more and gives us greater control over our FB cycles when we don't have to be bothered by hitting energy cap because of needing to hold onto the 5 CP to refresh a SR/Rip. Put simply it gives us an extra 100 energy buffer that we can use to completely remove the wasted energy/CP (refreshing SR sub 5CP/capping out on energy) and turning it into extra FB's instead.

[Epoch]

sorry to tell you this, but the hybrid tax will always exist, no matter how loudly blizzard denies its. you want to have a DPS spec that's solid all around? play a pure DPS class. if you haven't realized this after having played for over 10+ years, you're either naive or a fool. i'm not defending blizzard or anything, i'm just saying this as one player who stuck with hybrid DPS specs (ele, feral, and shadow) over the years but finally just accepted the reality of the situation.

Oh, I've realized it quite some time ago. However, with not really being a hybrid anymore I had hopes that useless excuse, which has no backing, wouldn't continue to influence how my spec plays.

Prior to the current talent changes, If a tank died on a boss fight could I (as a feral) temporarily pickup the boss until said tank was up again, while not hindering the raid? Not really, we lacked the tools to do so.

Where did my innervate go?

Say a main healer dies on a boss fight, how fast will I go oom / how much overhealing will be done, and how much will my loss of dps done hinder the raid?

With those few things, and more, I don't and I haven't considered myself a hybrid for quite a long time.

My ability to switch specs is very similar (in some cases harder to do) than say a mage switching from frost to fire or a rogue switching from sub to assassination for example.

First I would have to hope that someone in my raid group didn't already need the gear required (if running a dkp system this will be near impossible to accomplish), then I have to spend the time learning the spec that is required of me. In this same amount of time, it would have been a lot simpler and less complicated for my guild / raid team if we found the required spec (tank, ranged dps, healer.) Also, given the plethora of tanks, ranged dps, healers on the server I play on their virtually is no reason for this to be done. So, I ask again, why is my spec continuing to be penalized and pigeon holed because of an option we once had?


As to your question about wanting to have a dps spec solid all around.

No, I want a dps spec which is competitive to other dps specs. A dps spec wherein I don't have to work 3 times harder than another spec to either achieve the same goal or wind up mid pack at the end of a boss fight. Their is no reason that I as a feral should not be able to be competitive dps because a fight consists of either st, aoe, or both.

Say, for example I go ST on a boss fight, say their is a rogue with similar gear, ilvl and experience. I'm having to work 2 or 3 times as hard to keep up with the player or surpass them. Why? Because of some archaic thought process? No thank you.

Say a boss fight has a lot of adds and/or requires lots of aoe. I switch to my current AOE spec. Can I be competitive at doing aoe with my current toolkit / abilities? No, I will be lucky to be mid pack on dps. I ask yet again, why is my spec being held back (hindered, if you will) due to an outdated idea which hasn't been current for years? Because someone can't be bothered to fix it instead of saying "will be fixed next expansion"? No, thank you. Not good enough.

Whoever is in charge of class changes needs to pick it up and either bring someone on that has a clue, or (and I've said this for years on multiple forums) actually converse with theorycrafters who are and have been doing their jobs, for free mind you.

[smooth_c]

Been playing around with SotF and MoC, and noticed that I'm wasting energy like crazy, using these two talents at the same time does not make sense to me. I wish they would just swap SR with MoC, making T5 talents more energy oriented, and T7 - the dps talents.

[Morg]

Oh, I've realized it quite some time ago. However, with not really being a hybrid anymore I had hopes that useless excuse, which has no backing, wouldn't continue to influence how my spec plays.

Prior to the current talent changes, If a tank died on a boss fight could I (as a feral) temporarily pickup the boss until said tank was up again, while not hindering the raid? Not really, we lacked the tools to do so.

Where did my innervate go?

Say a main healer dies on a boss fight, how fast will I go oom / how much overhealing will be done, and how much will my loss of dps done hinder the raid?

With those few things, and more, I don't and I haven't considered myself a hybrid for quite a long time.

My ability to switch specs is very similar (in some cases harder to do) than say a mage switching from frost to fire or a rogue switching from sub to assassination for example.

First I would have to hope that someone in my raid group didn't already need the gear required (if running a dkp system this will be near impossible to accomplish), then I have to spend the time learning the spec that is required of me. In this same amount of time, it would have been a lot simpler and less complicated for my guild / raid team if we found the required spec (tank, ranged dps, healer.) Also, given the plethora of tanks, ranged dps, healers on the server I play on their virtually is no reason for this to be done. So, I ask again, why is my spec continuing to be penalized and pigeon holed because of an option we once had?


As to your question about wanting to have a dps spec solid all around.

No, I want a dps spec which is competitive to other dps specs. A dps spec wherein I don't have to work 3 times harder than another spec to either achieve the same goal or wind up mid pack at the end of a boss fight. Their is no reason that I as a feral should not be able to be competitive dps because a fight consists of either st, aoe, or both.

Say, for example I go ST on a boss fight, say their is a rogue with similar gear, ilvl and experience. I'm having to work 2 or 3 times as hard to keep up with the player or surpass them. Why? Because of some archaic thought process? No thank you.

Say a boss fight has a lot of adds and/or requires lots of aoe. I switch to my current AOE spec. Can I be competitive at doing aoe with my current toolkit / abilities? No, I will be lucky to be mid pack on dps. I ask yet again, why is my spec being held back (hindered, if you will) due to an outdated idea which hasn't been current for years? Because someone can't be bothered to fix it instead of saying "will be fixed next expansion"? No, thank you. Not good enough.

Whoever is in charge of class changes needs to pick it up and either bring someone on that has a clue, or (and I've said this for years on multiple forums) actually converse with theorycrafters who are and have been doing their jobs, for free mind you.

Posts like this really make me worry about my choice to potentially main feral with guardian OT when the guild needs it, maybe ill go back with my original idea of ele or DH

[teddabear]

Posts like this really make me worry about my choice to potentially main feral with guardian OT when the guild needs it, maybe ill go back with my original idea of ele or DH

Currently Guardian is really good, so if you wanted to main Guardian with Feral OS that is a legitimate option. However tank balance can change even faster than DPS when Blizzard waves the nerfbat so you never know. I think DH is a very safe choice. While technically a hybrid they only have 2 specs and they are the new class. Havoc is also very strong currently even after the nerfs. Shaman are good right now but I would not have the confidence they will stay that way.

The absolute minimum they would have to do to make Feral viable is increase sustained AoE and rebalance the talent tree. The rebalancing of direct damage and bleeds at the last moment invalidated a lot of the previous tuning they did to the talent tree. Unless they retune it Feral will go through another expansion where most of the choices are not real choices. This is especially problematic because the tiers with the biggest issues are the most important tiers.

[Deleted]

A bit random but can someone with American forum access propose adding the "your maximum energy is increased by 30" from MoM to SoTF as well, with a slight change.
"Increases you maximum energy to 130"
E.g, they'd both have the same non stacking secondary effect.

Soul game play feels somewhat smooth from a pvp perspective and this would somewhat alleviate the energy wastage.

Might help people shift away from Incarn gameplay too, which has been binary and boring as hell.