Legion is Concerning Me: Spec Deficiencies

[elcapone]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

[Radaney]

So everything sucks?

Quit the game mate, probably the only good option for you.

Or play what class you find fun because no one actually gives a fuck what class you play unless your in the top 1% of PvE guild, or in a shit guild.

That is the only way you can enjoy the game since balance changes all the time. Playing specs and classes based on performance and you're going to have a bad time with WoW. Spec performance isn't even massive nowadays in terms of DPS, some classes do better AoE and some do better single T that's about it...

[Nhiosis]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

The classes and specs all have defined strengths and weaknesses now. Good game design. Can't be a jack of all/master of all anymore.

[elcapone]

So everything sucks?

Quit the game mate, probably the only good option for you.

Or play what class you find fun because no one actually gives a fuck what class you play unless your in the top 1% of PvE guild, or in a shit guild.

Nahh not that, I am just a competitive person in general. If I am playing a pickup game even though its for fun, I still want to win. In this case, do well in 5 mans, raiding, and pvp. Maybe what I said on melee maybe overblown but its what I have read.

The classes and specs all have defined strengths and weaknesses now. Good game design. Can't be a jack of all/master of all anymore.

Interesting, I didnt know that

[SteveRocks]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

Every class/spec as it's own strengths and weaknesses now. A long ramp up time means better than average sustained DPS. As opposed to say a hunter that has good burst DPS but pretty weak sustained.

[nomorepriest]

What about mage or hunter? Both are range and you didn't mention them.

[Deleted]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

If everything is bad, quit game.

[elcapone]

What about mage or hunter? Both are range and you didn't mention them.

Yeah, I have a hunter been playing survival which I kinda like but the mechanics are a little off for me. i will try out BM and MM.

Every class/spec as it's own strengths and weaknesses now. A long ramp up time means better than average sustained DPS. As opposed to say a hunter that has good burst DPS but pretty weak sustained.

Yeah, I didn't about this design philosophy, did Blizz say what their philosophy is for each spec or we have to figure it out?

[orgonutil]

quite or play mage, they are always on top

[middling]

here's the thing that I really don't like about this expansion: Artifact Weapons.. let me explain why.

Things are constantly evolving in WoW. Top DPS, Best tank, Awesome healer, all change during the course of an expansion lifecycle.

If you look at current DPS rankings, Shadow is #2 for example. Doesn't mean it will stay that way for Legion.

The box that Blizzard has put us in is the sheer grind for your artifact weapon. So let's say you start as class A and really love it, you spend X hours on your artifact weapon but then they nerf the hell out of it. So much for all that time building up your artifact weapon.

Therefore, like many others I have taken a completely different attitude. I'm starting with guardian druid.

1. Tank queue time is 0
2. Instant cast flight (for when they enable flight)
3. Port to the class order hall (not all classes have this)
4. Super survivability (some classes are very squishy right now)
5. Best looking class in the game with the new forms.

I am completely throwing out the "what is best" decision

[Blaek]

As everyone above has stated, you cannot simply land on a spec that will perform greatly in everything.

Play a mage if you're so concerned about being "competitive'". Historically they're always running at least one spec that is top (look at fire right now).

To add, just because a class may be weak in some areas that should not deter you from choosing it.

IE: I'd rather have a shadow priest in my group involving AOE fights that's mastered his class and can adapt and perform highly in any situation, compared to a mage thats average but is only playing a mage because they're FOTM.

[Sturmcantor]

As everyone above has stated, you cannot simply land on a spec that will perform greatly in everything.

Play a mage if you're so concerned about being "competitive'". Historically they're always running at least one spec that is top (look at fire right now).

To add, just because a class may be weak in some areas that should not deter you from choosing it.

IE: I'd rather have a shadow priest in my group involving AOE fights that's mastered his class and can adapt and perform highly in any situation, compared to a mage thats average but is only playing a mage because they're FOTM.

Fire is top 3 overall (actually not top overall anymore) right now (at 100) because everything dies in 30 seconds. Go look at the M Archi rankings set to 1 day (i.e. post Flame Patch nerf). Notice how Fire is solidly middle of the pack.

[Blaek]

Fire is top 3 overall (actually not top overall anymore) right now (at 100) because everything dies in 30 seconds. Go look at the M Archi rankings set to 1 day (i.e. post Flame Patch nerf). Notice how Fire is solidly middle of the pack.

I was mostly using Mage as an example. Also assuming the question was referring to Legion and not the next 3 weeks of WOD.

[SirCowdog]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

1) Blizzard has said there will be a way to respec your artifact, similar to how you used to be able to reset your talents.
2) Whatever issues you have with performance can be overpowered by farming titanforged gear or going ape on your artifact.
3) Gameplay is going to change depending on what legendary items you equip.

Basically you're worrying about class performance and enjoyment before you've even giving it a chance or experienced it yourself. Stop doing that! Find a class you enjoy the mechanics of and max that badboy out! YOU will make the class perform, not the other way around.

[ejpaints]

I enjoyed my BM Hunter in legion beta. It's noticeably weaker in pre-patch without artifact but that's most specs I would assume. Basically just have to accept that they've now given everyone their niche. It sorta makes it so stacking certain classes should no longer be a thing. We'll see if it actually plays out that way. But, even though I've not spent a lot of time on my alts, the ones I have played I've enjoyed well enough. The only one I just can't stand is my WW monk. That one got hearthed back to vale & parked. Not sure it will ever leave again, we'll see.

[Letdown]

here's the thing that I really don't like about this expansion: Artifact Weapons.. let me explain why.

Things are constantly evolving in WoW. Top DPS, Best tank, Awesome healer, all change during the course of an expansion lifecycle.

If you look at current DPS rankings, Shadow is #2 for example. Doesn't mean it will stay that way for Legion.

The box that Blizzard has put us in is the sheer grind for your artifact weapon. So let's say you start as class A and really love it, you spend X hours on your artifact weapon but then they nerf the hell out of it. So much for all that time building up your artifact weapon.

Therefore, like many others I have taken a completely different attitude. I'm starting with guardian druid.

1. Tank queue time is 0
2. Instant cast flight (for when they enable flight)
3. Port to the class order hall (not all classes have this)
4. Super survivability (some classes are very squishy right now)
5. Best looking class in the game with the new forms.

I am completely throwing out the "what is best" decision

You missed the part where Guardian druid is actually super duper strong though

[Hexxidecimal]

Even though I am going to play legion, I am concerned with the viability for a lot of specs regarding 5 mans mythic plus, raiding and pvp.

I mained elemental in wod, I went in without research and I got rekt. I didnt realize until HFC how bad mechanics/dps was until I joined a mythic guild. I have no faith in Blizz regarding elemental. I looked at Demo and affliction, too much ramp up time and mechanics arent great in general plus its boring. I was focusing on demo but it has so many problems. I wanted to shadow priest but apparently they have bad aoe. I am looking at melee but raiding in general is negative towards melee. I was thinking of going balance druid but way too many leather classes. Anyone feel this way?

Without going into too much detail about your post and other potential options I will first suggest Fire Mage as one. Ranged: check, Not Leather: check, Good AoE: check, Good Single Target: check. These seem to address your major concerns.

That being said no spec is going to be the best AoE and Single Target. The talent choices and spec identities push you in one direction or the other for the most part. I have played zero elemental so I can't comment on their effectiveness. I can say Destro is a very strong AoE spec right now, Demo has a lot of stuff you have to track with their plethora of demons but seems to be pretty strong overall, I have seen a number of warlock mains believe it's the strongest. Then there is Affliction. You may have to hit up the warlock forums to get a better feel here. They are back to being multi-dotters and what is a bit of an odd artifact starting trait. I feel like they have the potential to be very strong because of the trait but it requires the death of targets, meaning on long boss fights with few adds it may be a bit underwhelming. They do have long ramp up times however both Demo and Affl are good at high movement fights despite that as a portion of their damage just keeps happening after their spells are cast. Affliction can do all of it's ramp up on the move outside of soul effigy. Shadow priests AoE is very weak, even if you spec for it and they also have extremely high ramp up time. I have heard tell though if well played their single target damage is pretty massive.

Lastly I guess depending on how your guild does loot armor type shouldn't be too much of a concern. Boomkin I feel is really fun. I don't know how effective they are in the end game but they feel very solid to me.

[Aucald]

Well, you can always run as an Unholy DK, at least according to Icy Veins:

[Hexxidecimal]

1) Blizzard has said there will be a way to respec your artifact, similar to how you used to be able to reset your talents.
2) Whatever issues you have with performance can be overpowered by farming titanforged gear or going ape on your artifact.
3) Gameplay is going to change depending on what legendary items you equip.

Basically you're worrying about class performance and enjoyment before you've even giving it a chance or experienced it yourself. Stop doing that! Find a class you enjoy the mechanics of and max that badboy out! YOU will make the class perform, not the other way around.

Just some more info for the OP on the topics you brought up.

1)Yes we can respec artifact, it's expensive though and generally a bad idea unless it's very early on. I highly suggest doing some research into your artifact weapon and what it does. Look at how other spec and why then plan that out. The way you spec is by spending AP = to the next talent point. That can be stupid expensive or relatively cheap depending on how far along you are in the tree. Either way you are directly impeding your progress speed.
It IS there if you need it though.

2)Titan forged gear isn't something you can really farm. It's just going to be a rare happy accident when it happens. But when it happens it will be a nice shot in the arm. As far as your artifact goes, working on it will help significantly. You get little Artifact Power Consumables. You can hold onto those as you play around with the different specs. When you find one you like use those consumables (not before) then pour your acquired AP into that specs weapon. Additionally the other way to improve your Artifact is equipping "relics". You start off with two relic slots. Basically instead of weapon drops in Legion you will get relics that you then equip to your Artifact. This will do two things, firstly it will increase one of your weapon talents by 1 point. (i.e. a talent gives 2% increase to one of your abilities and you can put 3 points in for a total increase of 6%, with a relic it essentially gives you 4 points in the talent for an increase of 8%). The extra point helps but the real bonus is that relics increase your Artifacts over all item level, stat bonus and DPS. It's a huge thoroughput increase to get good relics. Just like weapon drops of previous expansion relics will come from the same place you would expect (quests, dungeons, raids, etc...).

3) Just like SirCowdog says, there are Legendaries that can come from multiple place (like world quests) that can completely change how your rotation works. Without full data on these it's hard to say what one class/spec may be capable of down the line. You can look them up and theorycraft but I would suggest finding a spec you think works and is fun through testing yourself. Once you find that then get to work. Worry over legendaries when you get them.

Oh and Aucald said above me, Unholy DK is Unholy good at the moment. Don't worry about being Melee, you can just Deathstrike your health back if you like. But they are one of the few specs that has excellent burst, excellent sustain in both AoE and Single target. The only place they lack anything is mobility. Even then they have a 45 second cool down on wraithwalk soooo it's not the worst thing ever.

[elcapone]

Just some more info for the OP on the topics you brought up.

1)Yes we can respec artifact, it's expensive though and generally a bad idea unless it's very early on. I highly suggest doing some research into your artifact weapon and what it does. Look at how other spec and why then plan that out. The way you spec is by spending AP = to the next talent point. That can be stupid expensive or relatively cheap depending on how far along you are in the tree. Either way you are directly impeding your progress speed.
It IS there if you need it though.

2)Titan forged gear isn't something you can really farm. It's just going to be a rare happy accident when it happens. But when it happens it will be a nice shot in the arm. As far as your artifact goes, working on it will help significantly. You get little Artifact Power Consumables. You can hold onto those as you play around with the different specs. When you find one you like use those consumables (not before) then pour your acquired AP into that specs weapon. Additionally the other way to improve your Artifact is equipping "relics". You start off with two relic slots. Basically instead of weapon drops in Legion you will get relics that you then equip to your Artifact. This will do two things, firstly it will increase one of your weapon talents by 1 point. (i.e. a talent gives 2% increase to one of your abilities and you can put 3 points in for a total increase of 6%, with a relic it essentially gives you 4 points in the talent for an increase of 8%). The extra point helps but the real bonus is that relics increase your Artifacts over all item level, stat bonus and DPS. It's a huge thoroughput increase to get good relics. Just like weapon drops of previous expansion relics will come from the same place you would expect (quests, dungeons, raids, etc...).

3) Just like SirCowdog says, there are Legendaries that can come from multiple place (like world quests) that can completely change how your rotation works. Without full data on these it's hard to say what one class/spec may be capable of down the line. You can look them up and theorycraft but I would suggest finding a spec you think works and is fun through testing yourself. Once you find that then get to work. Worry over legendaries when you get them.

Oh and Aucald said above me, Unholy DK is Unholy good at the moment. Don't worry about being Melee, you can just Deathstrike your health back if you like. But they are one of the few specs that has excellent burst, excellent sustain in both AoE and Single target. The only place they lack anything is mobility. Even then they have a 45 second cool down on wraithwalk soooo it's not the worst thing ever.

Yeah the more I am reading about legendary artifacts and the legendaries, really hard to tell how classes will perform, alot unknowns atm which is both scary and exciting.

Well, you can always run as an Unholy DK, at least according to Icy Veins:

haha looks like I found my main.