Another dumb Oregon tax increase - Measure 97.

[Kellhound]

On the contrary, it's considerably more difficult because of the 'buddy buddy' phenomenon.

It only takes a small number of voters to change local politics. Local people have little influence over national politics.

Looking at Oregon, the state legislature is made up of 59% Democrat and 41% Republican, voted 54% D-42% R in the 2012 Presidential election, and has a Congressional delegation 85% Democrat. Now tell me, which body more closely matches the voter demographic of the state, federal representation or state representation?

[Cheze]

so our hypothetical example company is one that does 25 million in sales, employs hundreds of people, and has a profit margin of less than one percent? Does this company actually exist or are we just coming up with strange hypotheticals now?

If you are aware of a business that has this profile and would be grievously harmed by the tax I'd be interested in hearing about it, because nobody else seems to be able to find one.

[DesMephisto]

I don't expect everyone on this forum to understand basic business but I can help you.

If taxes cut into your bottom line, you will find ways too get it back. Higher prices do equal higher sales but also equal higher net profits (or the same depending on the raise)

If this tax goes through it is only a matter of time before every business jumps into a Sub S corp company and then we get another tax for them as well. Now everyone has too pay the bull shit gross tax.

The first thing I plan too do is raise prices for government owned customers across the board.

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25 million isn't a whole lot in Gross Sales.

I don't expect everyone on the forums to understand common sense but I can help you.

If you get taxed 10% more at 35M then you save more money by making only 34.99M

You actually cut back on prices, but make more money than if you were to rip off your customers. #Gasp or you could just become a better business.

And I like how you dismiss the fact that you blame the government and not the actual threat which is larger corporations paying off the government to try and kill small businesses.

[Cheze]

I don't expect everyone on the forums to understand common sense but I can help you.

If you get taxed 10% more at 35M then you save more money by making only 34.99M

You actually cut back on prices, but make more money than if you were to rip off your customers. #Gasp or you could just become a better business.

you don't understand how tax brackets work. Only income in excess of the lower bracket limit is taxed at the higher bracket rate.

[Kellhound]

But it isn't being interpreted that way by the dumb ignorant voters in Oregon. It is being advertised as a tax against Big Business and we all know how that will go in a state that has been blue for decades.

Well, somebody has to pay for the 30 year $2 billion dollar tax break Intel got in 2014....

[zEmini]

I don't expect everyone on the forums to understand common sense but I can help you.

If you get taxed 10% more at 35M then you save more money by making only 34.99M

You actually cut back on prices, but make more money than if you were to rip off your customers. #Gasp or you could just become a better business.

And I like how you dismiss the fact that you blame the government and not the actual threat which is larger corporations paying off the government to try and kill small businesses.

lol, yes lets lower prices so we don't have too pay a tax? That is not how business works which is obvious why you don't run one. Besides there is still corp tax for below 25 million, it just caps at 2.5% there.

And I will blame the government all day when they propose stuff so stupid and deceiving.

It's how majority of the people on my facebook are viewing, both conservative and liberal familiy/friends. I know it's anecdotal, but it won't take much to defeat this bill. I didn't even know about it and people on my facebook feed were sharing "defeat the tax on oregon sales".

Hope you are right.

My business is not effected since it is Sub S, however some day that will change if this passes. It is always a slippery slope with taxes and government.

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so our hypothetical example company is one that does 25 million in sales, employs hundreds of people, and has a profit margin of less than one percent? Does this company actually exist or are we just coming up with strange hypotheticals now?

If you are aware of a business that has this profile and would be grievously harmed by the tax I'd be interested in hearing about it, because nobody else seems to be able to find one.

http://koin.com/2016/07/20/could-cor...t-of-business/

Not sure how many employees they have but say good buy too hipsters and used books.

[Killadrix]

The larger the business the larger the profit margin. Starbucks for instance (according to 2014 numbers from wikipedia) has a profit margin of 3B/16B = just shy of 25%.

The larger the business the larger the profit margin? I think you're confused.

[DesMephisto]

you don't understand how tax brackets work. Only income in excess of the lower bracket limit is taxed at the higher bracket rate.

Oh shit, that's how that works? God damn this entire time I've misunderstood that. Man all that tax shit I read is misleading as fuck.

[Reeve]

I don't expect everyone on this forum to understand basic business but I can help you.

If you're going to come at this from the perspective that we're all ignorant dumb fucks, then do us a favor and go away. You know nothing about our business experience, and assuming you do shows us your own ignorance.

[Daerio]

You could do that. But then you would only attract average people to run for office. Or you could pay above average and attract above average people to run for office.

Is that what our current system incentivizes? Above average politicians for above average pay?

Funny, I thought it was incentivizing politicians to sell their souls to the highest bidder. They're good at making money for themselves, spending money for everyone and running for office, but little else.

[Cheze]

the impacts on Powell's suppliers and etc. are obviously complex to evaluate, but if they are indeed barely above $25m gross sales in Oregon (as their president says in the article the trib wrote on the subject) their tax burden should be affected barely at all.

it also sounds like powell's would probably be eligible to reclassify as an S corp, but unclear if they will take that step

[Celista]

2.5% of gross sales does seem excessive, especially when gross margin before SG&A or capex might be something like 10%. Companies will have to gross up their pricing by that 2.5%. Possibly this is being considered in lieu of the sales tax Oregon doesn't have? It is likely to have roughly the same effect.

Usually lack of a sales tax is balanced out by a higher income tax, as is the case in Oregon. Unless you live in Alaska and uhh...I forget the other state...Wyoming?

Really things tend to balance out, Alaska has a low tax rate but a high cost of living, the high cost of living tends to be offset by higher wages etc.

[Azadina]

When the government needs money, they never say " maybe we are paying ourselves too much" They either slash funding to something or juice people for more taxes. They never stop to ask if they should be paying each city council member $150000 a year. Or each superintendent of a school $200000 per year or maybe they don't all need executive administrative aides making $75000 per year.

OT - any business with small margins such as a restaurant or convenience store will be hurt pretty bad by this. Not all of them can get up and move to another state. Some will just have to close down shop.

And when the high ups in corporations pay crap wages to employees, or need to fire them, they also never ask themselves if they are paying themselves too much, with tens of millions a year.

[Celista]

They have to do something to make up for the huge tax breaks they give Nike and Intel.

Nike throws money around a lot at least, we have these hideous orange Nike bike rentals at Trimet stations now which seem pointless as they need to be locked up only at stations unless you want to incur a huge fee.


The bikes in question, also someone being unnecessarily contrarian.

[endersblade]

Portland has a fucking ART TAX for fuck's sake. Oregon is just coming up with all sorts of ways to rape people of money.

And the problem is, or the irony, I guess, is that it hurts native Oregonians, but not the thousands upon thousands of people who have herded here over the past several years. They're the same reason it costs almost $1100 to rent a fucking 1-bedroom apartment in Portland. We can't afford it, but those displaced Californians sure can!

[Manabomb]

Basically it is a tax on Sub C corporations that make over 25 million a year ... in FUCKING GROSS SALES!!!!

GROSS SALES = sales before expenses, before taxes, and before Cost of Goods sold. So if a business has a bad year, they still take a hit in taxes. Some will just default on the taxes and go out of business, others will lay off or stop hiring. We will also be seeing price increases for the consumer because that is economics 101.

The other problem is that there are a lot of stupid ignorant votes in the state that will vote for this because the Yes people play the Education card ... when in fact it will most likely be absorbed into PERS. PERS too my knowledge is a over inflated retirement program for public employees. They get massive pensions when you compare too the private sector. Honestly I say take money out of there first before taxing small businesses.

Alright, let's start off by saying that a corporation making 25 million dollars or more a year has room to wiggle and afford not to tank under non-risky circumstances. If you're playing Russian roulette with your business, then don't be surprised when it does bite that bullet.

And not to mention, a small business defined by Oregon law is a business understaffed by less than 50 people and/or making less than 10 million/year gross. This doesn't effect small business whatsoever and only effects out of state investor class individuals and hyper corporations that have been cesspools for hiring for decades (mcdonalds, walmart, ect.)

Your entire argument is based on this fallacy that these mega corporations matter at a state level where small business is far more important, especially when hand in hand with small government.

[Citizen T]

Tell me how 'low tax, low service' is working out for states in the south.

Without even checking numbers I can say Texas is doing very well

[Kapadons]

Nike throws money around a lot at least, we have these hideous orange Nike bike rentals at Trimet stations now which seem pointless as they need to be locked up only at stations unless you want to incur a huge fee.


The bikes in question, also someone being unnecessarily contrarian.

I think they do that in many down town areas. At least in San Antonio and Miami. Rent a bike and drop it off at another station a couple blocks away.

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And when the high ups in corporations pay crap wages to employees, or need to fire them, they also never ask themselves if they are paying themselves too much, with tens of millions a year.

I'm afraid I'm not certai how this contradicts what I said ?

[Celista]

Portland has a fucking ART TAX for fuck's sake. Oregon is just coming up with all sorts of ways to rape people of money.

And the problem is, or the irony, I guess, is that it hurts native Oregonians, but not the thousands upon thousands of people who have herded here over the past several years. They're the same reason it costs almost $1100 to rent a fucking 1-bedroom apartment in Portland. We can't afford it, but those displaced Californians sure can!

$1100 is pretty cheap for a 1-bedroom, I've seen 1-bedrooms in the trendier areas for $2400.

[Barnabas]

Get rekt Oregon. They could've just removed the breaks they give companies to free up money for schools. Now they propose to increase the costs of commodities instead and make the citizens pay for it indirectly lol.