New research suggests that the American dream isn’t alive in Scandinavia

[May90]

Is wealth determined by how much you make, or how much wealth you can accumulate? I always assumed it was the latter.

I would argue that it is both. If you can have the same lifestyle for $6k/m in San-Francisco than you can for $2k/m in an unnamed city in Ohio, then one would argue that you still are better off in San-Francisco, because the quality of goods you are getting is higher.

But then, it depends on the person. I wouldn't want to live in a large noisy million city; I prefer smaller, more peaceful places, and they also happen to be much cheaper to live in.

[Suporex]

I would argue that it is both. If you can have the same lifestyle for $6k/m in San-Francisco than you can for $2k/m in an unnamed city in Ohio, then one would argue that you still are better off in San-Francisco, because the quality of goods you are getting is higher.

But then, it depends on the person. I wouldn't want to live in a large noisy million city; I prefer smaller, more peaceful places, and they also happen to be much cheaper to live in.

That's why we have suburbs so do you don't have to go from two extremes. Then again I was born in Southern California and actually lived in a suburb of LA. The problem with SF is the people there think too highly of it so yeah for that lifestyle for $6k/m you're probably better off somewhere else.

[Crispin]

The most significant implication of this paper is not a happy one: Equality of opportunity is a fantasy. It does not exist in the U.S., it does not exist in Denmark, and it probably doesn’t exist anywhere.


Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school.

I think what the article is saying is that if you're not a material person, social welfare is a good choice instead of a career. So a lot of Danes do the bare minimum know the state will take care of all their needs.

Not entirely wrong, in Denmark we take education for granted and it does have some unwarranted effects.

I'll use an example from my sisters family, her oldest boy is more hooked on playing computer and smoking cigarettes, than doing, well anything whatsoever, much like his mom and dad I'm afraid, and he can quite easily do this by enrolling to an education that he's qualified to, show up whenever he cares for soem months and get the money that the state pays young ones to take an education, when he's kicked out he'll just start on another education and on it goes.

iirc they did put a limit on how many times you can start a new education (correct me if I'm wrong), but imo the state should turn it into a loan when you do not finish your education.

His younger sister works 2 jobs besides going to school, her ambition level is unlike her brother and other sisters (and parents), at her confimation (party around 13 year old), her parents told her in a speech to take it easy and not be so ambitius (/facepalm)


But I somewhat agree with the article, anything that's "free" (just an fyi, if you take your education and leave Denmark then your education was in fact free, you even got paid for taking it) for everyone doesnt seem like a privilige, heck you'll her students bitch about having to buy books and not get enough money from the state (omg I have to work if I wanna go out and party!)

[The One Percent]

The American dream doesn't exist anywhere because you aren't entitled to shit that you aren't willing to fight for.

[Lupinemancer]

I take it you don't understand many of your economies have been lackluster and your social policy has allowed migration that is against your own interest.

That is a different matter entirely. And it's something we are about to fix.
But a country that consists mostly of immigrants has no business talking about that stuff really.

[Deleted]

Now, minimum wage in Indiana is $7.25/h. (insurance is provided by the employer)

Is it common practic that minimum wage work have full health insurance?

[Barnabas]

Depends on what your idea of the American dream is if you can really achieve it.

[May90]

Is it common practic that minimum wage work have full health insurance?

I'm not sure, honestly. I've had a minimum wage job only once, and it did provide full insurance.

Even if not, you can get a basic insurance for like $100/m, which should be enough for the vast majority of needs.

[Blobfish]

No Picketts for a Pickett fence maybe!!!

[Kokolums]

The Atlantic appears to be operating on the assumption that a university degree is the only form of education worth having and anyone who instead goes to trade school, etc. is unworthy.

You can make a lot of money with a trade. But if you aren't educated, the odds of successfully managing the money that you get also is lower.

[Daerio]

I'm not sure, honestly. I've had a minimum wage job only once, and it did provide full insurance.

Even if not, you can get a basic insurance for like $100/m, which should be enough for the vast majority of needs.

Nothing you say here is correct.

First of all, it's hard to even find a "full-time job." I think what you meant was two part-time jobs. Scheduling conflicts, extra travel on your 10 speed bike, all that extra bullshit.

Second of all, what state can you get insurance for 100$/month? I'm a healthy late 20s adult with no medical history, and it was 230$/month for catastrophic coverage only. Yeah, I don't have insurance.

They were offering decent plans at 50$/month when Obamacare first hit; but then they realized they weren't actually going to pay for anything and still make money at those rates so they evaporated pretty quickly and lied to everyone who had already purchased them.

[Blobfish]

At least the United Kingdom and Australia have free Healthcare

Even those poor Rugby luving Sods in New Zealand have to pay something to see a Doctor

[May90]

Nothing you say here is correct.

First of all, it's hard to even find a "full-time job." I think what you meant was two part-time jobs. Scheduling conflicts, extra travel on your 10 speed bike, all that extra bullshit.

Second of all, what state can you get insurance for 100$/month? I'm a healthy late 20s adult with no medical history, and it was 230$/month for catastrophic coverage only. Yeah, I don't have insurance.

They were offering decent plans at 50$/month when Obamacare first hit; but then they realized they weren't actually going to pay for anything and still make money at those rates so they evaporated pretty quickly and lied to everyone who had already purchased them.

Hard to find a full-time job? What do you mean? What's hard finding a job in a grocery store, or McDonalds, or something?

I don't know the details, but when I was given the insurance, I was also offered other suggestions for getting my own insurance, not taking the employer-provided one. There were offers, among others, around $100, and the coverage seemed decent. And I don't even have permanent residence; I would think that the number of options for citizens should be much higher. It is much higher with regards to dental insurance, at least: I can't find a decent one, because they all require citizenship.

---

The point is, you absolutely don't have to have as much money to live in the US as some folks here say. They expect a luxurious quality of life and then complain that low income doesn't allow for that. Well, of course it doesn't: it is low income, after all.

And I've still yet to see statistics demonstrating that it was somehow different a few decades ago.

[Masark]

Hard to find a full-time job? What do you mean? What's hard finding a job in a grocery store, or McDonalds, or something?

You appear to be missing the "full time" bit. Those jobs do not typically give full-time hours.

[May90]

You appear to be missing the "full time" bit. Those jobs do not typically give full-time hours.

Maybe depends on the location? I know that the two grocery stores I frequent definitely offer full time positions, and so do a few restaurants on and near the campus.

[Daerio]

Maybe depends on the location? I know that the two grocery stores I frequent definitely offer full time positions, and so do a few restaurants on and near the campus.

It doesn't depend on the area, that's what statistics are for.

[Deleted]

The Atlantic appears to be operating on the assumption that a university degree is the only form of education worth having and anyone who instead goes to trade school, etc. is unworthy.

The Danish system also means less people feel disenfranchised, it means less crime and that even the poor can be spenders.
Yeah I don't get that either. I thought it was universally accepted that higher education usually doesn't mean shit for you and you often end up with a completely different job and massive debts.
Something like trade school is vastly superior.

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You are making a big step here to claim that people will chose welfare. You can also end your education after High school and have a career as a handyman. Plumbers, Electricians, carpenters etc charge like 40 Euros per hour plus tax (self employed), so there is good money to be made and your skills will be needed in a zombie apocalypse ^^

I might be Swedish, but nobody in this fucking world would choose welfare over a job. It's HELL to be on welfare. It's right wing slander that anyone would WANT to live like that.

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I only make $1460/mo and I have about $600 extra PER MONTH that I can spend on anything I want, and a lot of people here say that since my yearly income is so low (25,000-30,000~ yearly, depending on overtime) that I make shit money. I pay $425/mo for rent, water is paid for, and gas and electric are under $100/mo combined. Why on earth am I poor? People in certain parts of CA making three times as much as me have less money per month than I do.

Is wealth determined by how much you make, or how much wealth you can accumulate? I always assumed it was the latter.

When talking about income, factoring in living costs is very important.

[Sierra85]

These scandinavian countries are always in the top country lists of the places people are most happiest / best countries to live. They must be doing something right.

[TwistedSkull]

Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school.

Hmmm thats odd... The last few years Denmark had a record high admittens into education of higher learning...

[Deleted]

So basically what you're saying is... Some young people in Denmark decide they'd rather be a carpenter than an economist because that's what their father/mother was before them and that means our system is bad? Not at all. In Denmark anybody, anybody AT ALL can become what they want despite their social circumstances. In The US you're not posed that choice. If your parents are poor, you'll 9/10 (bullshit statistics ftw) be as poor as they are because you'll be limited to their economical situation. In Denmark, being poor is excessively rare and if you are, the government helps you get on your feet and provide the opportunity for you to become middle class or even upper class. And then you can contribute to society again. It's not a perfect system by a longshot... But it sure as hell is a good system. I wonder, why should the American Dream exist in Denmark? We're danes, not Americans. We prefer to have a strong country and people over strong individuals.