Any consensus on what spec will be the spec.

[Gaidax]

but if u take sow the seeds and PS u have literally no single target dmg

Nobody gives a damn about that in Mythic+, by far the most time consuming thing there is trash, especially on higher Mythic+. You need AoE and Cleave there to beat the timer - balls to the wall single target? It's only really has a point for some bosses and some select mobs.

Do you really think anyone would give a damn about lock doing 15% less single target there while every other pack he does like frikkin' 200% damage of next DPS after him aside from some very specific exceptions?

[Deleted]

Nobody gives a damn about that in Mythic+, by far the most time consuming thing there is trash, especially on higher Mythic+. You need AoE and Cleave there to beat the timer - balls to the wall single target? It's only really has a point for some bosses and some select mobs.

Do you really think anyone would give a damn about lock doing 15% less single target there while every other pack he does like frikkin' 200% damage of next DPS after him aside from some very specific exceptions?

you are right. but I can only talk from my perspective, never had a group in beta which was confident enough to pull large groups of enemys, so I was struggeling with affli when the packs were kinda small.

[Gaidax]

Well yes a pack of 2 mobs is anemic (there is a caveat though - if you start with 5 shards - that's the whole another story), but 3+ and you can go to town, also take Drain Soul - it's the key that makes the magic happen - snipe shards with it and pump them into next pack. This spell literally removes the whole ramp-up issue for Affliction in Mythic+

[benjaminandjen]

As a returning player, it's just weird to me that we have to choose between aoe and single target specs. I wonder how long it will take to max the artifact for two specs, because I guess we have to...

[Koobs]

Well yes a pack of 2 mobs is anemic (there is a caveat though - if you start with 5 shards - that's the whole another story), but 3+ and you can go to town, also take Drain Soul - it's the key that makes the magic happen - snipe shards with it and pump them into next pack. This spell literally removes the whole ramp-up issue for Affliction in Mythic+

What would you say is the best spec to start out as in legion, that is competent in mythic dungeons as we gear for raiding and higher mythic+? Cheers for your input.

[Gaidax]

Tough question, Destruction is a safe bet (provided one can press Havoc button at the correct moment, which was a great challenge for many over the years). But affliction has quite a bit of cheese to it as well.

Destruction it is for me.

[Deleted]

What would you say is the best spec to start out as in legion, that is competent in mythic dungeons as we gear for raiding and higher mythic+? Cheers for your input.

Either Affliction or Destruction. Affliction has impressive AoE if talented and long ramp up times, thus making it decent as long as mobs live for a while. It'll have the highest relevance at the start of the expansion when people don't know how to play and don't really have the gear, meaning that mobs tend to live a fair bit longer than they will later down the line. Once that is no longer the case, you really cannot play anything but Destruction. No ramp, excellent target swapping and cleave still make it desireable later on. Take note that if you don't pick Cataclysm, your AoE relies on ramp up times for shards (or sniping mobs from the previous pack with Shadowburn) AND it is not instant AND it is damage over time, thus making Destruction's AoE somewhat lackluster when compared to Affliction's StS/PS/Shadow Flame combo. Destruction also has a much better toolkit for early raiding and raid progression. Affliction will do well on certain encounters thanks to the way it deals damage and Soul Flame. Other than that, Destruction will probably outperform it on many encounters early on.

Yes, I'm aware of Mythic+ and the fact that, at high levels, Affliction will still have its opportunity to shine. Destruction is just far less situational.

[Deleted]

affliction, shadow flame, what?

[Deleted]

affliction, shadow flame, what?

Soul Flame*. I'm stupid, don't mind me.

[zakalwei]

I've played Destro for so long now I am seriously contemplating going Affliction just for something different! Been mucking around with it the last couple days and it seems pretty straightforward. Just a bit concerned about the viability come raid time. We are a relatively small and casual guild so I'm not sure if it's going to make that much difference, but the other warlock I'm pretty sure will be Destro and I MUST beat them

[Walrock]

I've played Destro for so long now I am seriously contemplating going Affliction just for something different! Been mucking around with it the last couple days and it seems pretty straightforward. Just a bit concerned about the viability come raid time. We are a relatively small and casual guild so I'm not sure if it's going to make that much difference, but the other warlock I'm pretty sure will be Destro and I MUST beat them

cool story bro

[Verdugo]

I hope it wont be demo, otherwise I would have to reroll. I dont care that imps would shoot fire mages out of their ass, that spec is just awfull. And thats coming from someone that enjoys summoning classes in RPGs.

[Deleted]

It won;t be because as you say demo is awful.

[Deleted]

Well yes a pack of 2 mobs is anemic (there is a caveat though - if you start with 5 shards - that's the whole another story), but 3+ and you can go to town, also take Drain Soul - it's the key that makes the magic happen - snipe shards with it and pump them into next pack. This spell literally removes the whole ramp-up issue for Affliction in Mythic+

What spec do you run as Aff? (which talents?). And how is the boss dmg? And at what mythic + is this?

[Izenhart]

A lot of you seem to have the misconception that leveling a second Artifact will be some sort of freak phenomenon done by only the brave and the ones with 12 hours a day to play

It will be relatively easy for anyone who's raiding or even wants to put some effort in Mythic+ to keep up 2 different specs at the same time

[striderZA]

A lot of you seem to have the misconception that leveling a second Artifact will be some sort of freak phenomenon done by only the brave and the ones with 12 hours a day to play

Yeah well. Lots of people disdain swapping specs, so anything related to it gets blown out of proportion.

[Deleted]

A lot of you seem to have the misconception that leveling a second Artifact will be some sort of freak phenomenon done by only the brave and the ones with 12 hours a day to play

It will be relatively easy for anyone who's raiding or even wants to put some effort in Mythic+ to keep up 2 different specs at the same time

But it will be boring. Levelling anything once can be a grind - doing it twice, well, a whole bunch of no fun.

I think the issue is really, given Blizzard's propensity for allowing specs to enter a new expansion or content patch in the state they do (where you get extremely obvious over and under performers) and their equal propensity for over-reacting with nerfs or buffs, people are justifiably concerned about investing a significant amoutn of time and effort into levelling a specialisation which is exactly what the artifact is, only to find after they've done that, Blizzard pulls the rug from under it all and you have to start over.

It was bad enough when you could switch specs and the only real issue was gear tuning. The artifact adds a whole dimension to that.

It's a dumb question, but can you have three artifacts, given you can switch specs freely now? If not then the problem is worse, because you could be faced with actually throwing away and restarting

Of course, my internal cynic tells me, it's all intentional, because everything in WoW is designed to maximise the hours played whilst minimising the amount of content they are required to provide. The artifact ticks that box very nicely. It requires hardly any effort on Blizzard's part to add a relatively large number of hours played in the same content. When you consider that a lot of spec are shaping up to be niche performers as ever. Most specs have weaknesses, although unholy DK's and MM hunters seem to be very strong all-rounders.

- - - Updated - - -

but if u take sow the seeds and PS u have literally no single target dmg

I wouldimagine the intention is that if you're doing Mythic modes you would be expected to take along the talent-swap consumable.

It's an absolutely crap system...but we're back to that "keep 'em grinding" stuff, it's just a time sink, aimed at making people farm the mats and level professions, which is necessary because there can be very few people that find gathering and professions fun in their own right.

But that's why it's there. Make talents way more important situationally, make the aoe/cleave/single target one smutually exclusive for the most part...then take away the ability to swap them as you please in dungeons and raids, the precise places you will need to. Oh, you can...at a cost....

[Gaidax]

I wouldimagine the intention is that if you're doing Mythic modes you would be expected to take along the talent-swap consumable.

You can not change talents or swap specs in Mythic+ dungeons at all even with consumable used. You can in theory get/port out, swap outside and get back in, but that's a lot of time wasted.

You CAN change in raids and ordinary Mythic+0 and lower.

Other than that, the consumable is so cheap that you can lug hundreds of them for no money. Honestly, I don't see much point - it's as if you are able to swap talents anyway everytime (well except for Mythic+X>0).

[DeadmanWalking]

A lot of people only want to show up on raid night and complain nonstop if their guild forces them to do extra in game stuff to be raid worthy. Those kinds of players won't like spec swapping because they will have to spend even more time getting those extra artifact weapons up to snuff.

[Deleted]

A lot of people only want to show up on raid night and complain nonstop if their guild forces them to do extra in game stuff to be raid worthy. Those kinds of players won't like spec swapping because they will have to spend even more time getting those extra artifact weapons up to snuff.

A convenient strawman, but I don't think the time required to level an artifact up is the problem, as many people have said, it's not that bad.

The issue I (and presumably some others) have with it is no matter how small the cost, every point put into a spec is coming at the expense of the others. That's just not a particularly pleasant feeling imo. I'm glad there's work to be done outside raids, that was one of the biggest problems with WOD, but I'd like the work to be done to be represented when I'm in a raid - not hidden away on other specs that may or may not be useful but nevertheless need maintaining to hedge against balancing changes at the expense of the spec you're playing.