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  1. #161
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    For my personally, it's a grudge i carry with the greatest intensity. I can't attest to you, the amount of times, that i have had the fondest of smiles leveled upon me. The most genuine of caring, the softest caress and the most intimate of hugs. Even have people say that they love you.

    But when all that, is met with no reality. No actions. And you are still left with the emotional bullshit, you are still paying the price, of coping with someone who is So irresponsible of their own actions. Of their own merits. And you can't question them. That's an affront, to their very being. To their very emotions.

    And who are you question their sense of emotions? Their sense of , Righteouss?

    I lost a friend of mine, that i had known for years. Do you know why?

    Because she got angry. And altho, i pleaded that i was sorry, that i apologised for her feeling that state. What leveled me, to the ground, and had me removed, can you guess?

    Was that i did not respond, in an argument, when she was angry, and i was not.

    Can you imagine that emotion? That you are burnt on the stake, not because what YOU felt, but because you REFUSED to conjure a lie, to satisfy them?
    Assuming you are a man than it is mostly a society problem. You are not allowed to question said emotions because you are not seen as emotionally literate to understand feelings. Even though you have them, you are seen as illiterate because you do not express them as I might express them or other girls express them. This can manifest in the cultural misogyny of assuming woman are crazy or out of control, or the cultural misandry of men being stunted creatures.

    I think you can look at it in those two ways. Namely that you are either the victim of misandry or misogyny.

    I am sorry that happened to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    What is the problem with any of that? Your strategy seems to be nothing more than trying to scare me into abandoning it with consequences generally considered rather unpleasant by a common sense approach to morality or even human experience in general.

    My reasoning is not circular though. In particular, I explicitly rejected the idea that pleasure was good or bad or that it was even a value. It's simply how things work.

    Also, to be clear, I do not agree with utilitarianism. There are baked in things that are silly, though it is generally more agreeable than other ethical systems. Indeed, I reject that moral right and wrong are anything other than arbitrary personal preference that is later rationalized into an ethics system so that you can try to sell others on adopting your set of preferences. It's certainly not the worst strategy.
    I am just checking if you fully do not care about the negative consequences. You can't fault me for checking and trying to do an "Are you the Ultimate edgelord?" test. And I will say then that you do not view pleasure as good, but as an end worthy of attaining simply because...... reasons?

    I see your point and now respect that you are genuine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Indeed, I reject that moral right and wrong are anything other than arbitrary personal preference that is later rationalized into an ethics system so that you can try to sell others on adopting your set of preferences. It's certainly not the worst strategy.
    http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1899

    "A" IS MADE OF FIRE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  3. #163
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Women are much more in tune with their emotions than men, it's like we walk around with boxing gloves on.

    Not that you would do this but when you find a mate, she will be your emotional guide dog so to speak.
    It is just societal conditioning. Not all of us are walking around with boxing gloves on.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Assuming you are a man than it is mostly a society problem. You are not allowed to question said emotions because you are not seen as emotionally literate to understand feelings. Even though you have them, you are seen as illiterate because you do not express them as I might express them or other girls express them. This can manifest in the cultural misogyny of assuming woman are crazy or out of control, or the cultural misandry of men being stunted creatures.

    I think you can look at it in those two ways. Namely that you are either the victim of misandry or misogyny.

    I am sorry that happened to you.
    But that's the thing, technically, i have the right to question them. That's not what gets to me.

    What gets to me, is that it's so implicit, that it's accepted. That people don't see the error, of overflowing with emotion and expressing it, where it has no place.

    It's merely a "human" trait, after all, no?

    It's "Human", to feel "Love", isn't it? To feel, anger? But at what point, are we accounted for in our actions?

    That, is what i wonder. I am not saying Women are crazy loonies, i met crazy loonies ; And some of em might accidentaly been women, but i also saw men who were insane, thus, it's not a one-sided issue..

    It's just something deeper. It's this, sense, of that our primal urges and primal senses, this, raw format of emotions and no verification of reality, is somehow accepted. Is somehow, a thing that is alright? Somehow, something that people don't question?

    I still wonder, why, people do such strange things in sense of emotions. Does the common rabble, really lack that much critical thought, that their process is merely a flow of emotions, and when that emotion is invoked, they react? Is that all there is to it?

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    It's just something deeper. It's this, sense, of that our primal urges and primal senses, this, raw format of emotions and no verification of reality, is somehow accepted. Is somehow, a thing that is alright? Somehow, something that people don't question?
    We need more Gom Jabbar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  6. #166
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    But that's the thing, technically, i have the right to question them. That's not what gets to me.

    What gets to me, is that it's so implicit, that it's accepted. That people don't see the error, of overflowing with emotion and expressing it, where it has no place.

    It's merely a "human" trait, after all, no?

    It's "Human", to feel "Love", isn't it? To feel, anger? But at what point, are we accounted for in our actions?

    That, is what i wonder. I am not saying Women are crazy loonies, i met crazy loonies ; And some of em might accidentaly been women, but i also saw men who were insane, thus, it's not a one-sided issue..

    It's just something deeper. It's this, sense, of that our primal urges and primal senses, this, raw format of emotions and no verification of reality, is somehow accepted. Is somehow, a thing that is alright? Somehow, something that people don't question?

    I still wonder, why, people do such strange things in sense of emotions. Does the common rabble, really lack that much critical thought, that their process is merely a flow of emotions, and when that emotion is invokved, they react? Is that all there is to it?
    I think the errors that occured were less about overflowing emotion, but more the other party did not trust your emotional literacy.

    We trust emotions primarily because we feel it is peoples right to narrate their own lives and experiences. There is an equally delusional aspect of pure cold rationality, My reasoning is that it is often consists of calculation but not thought. I would caution against self-confidence in ones own reason or those who seem rarely to doubt their ability to prevail. They are not just intelligent, but pride themselves on being ‘rational,’ and those types of people are indeed to a rather frightening degree above ‘sentimentality’ and in love with ‘theory,’ theirs is a world of sheer mental effort. One can manipulate facts to fit logical argumentation, but also to fit self-serving narrative and delude themselves into believing their self-serving narrative is actually cold hard undeniable logic and reason.

    Emotions color our understanding of memory and situations, I would argue one cannot divorce the emotional from ones ability to reason and think one has done so is merely a self-deluded individual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  7. #167
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    I would say that as described they do not constitute negative consequences at all. I think you are applying your real world conception of rape (and a variety of other things) and all the feelings and thoughts about it that go with it to this hypothetical which has decidedly unrealistic and unconventional parameters. It'd be like asking whether or not muffins are an acceptable thing to offer people, but also muffins all have concentrated HCl in them, and you're like, "Fuck, muffins are really good. Sure, why not?" Since it's very unlikely you want people to get a gigantic mouthful of acid, such an answer would suggest to me you didn't approach the hypothetical free of baggage.
    I am just trying to parse what is the value of providing pleasure in the first place? If everything else has no or little value or no objective value why privilege pleasure any more than any other thing humans desire?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    How do you know? Have you experienced it from womens perspective? I don't have a male vision of emotions to compare either. But, you know, I'd still be willing to give men some credit, and say they should be able to figure out love like I could.
    Just by living with a woman you can see the difference between the sexes is obvious. A woman knows she's in love immediately. A man might mistake love for indigestion.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I think the errors that occured were less about overflowing emotion, but more the other party did not trust your emotional literacy.

    We trust emotions primarily because we feel it is peoples right to narrate their own lives and experiences. There is an equally delusional aspect of pure cold rationality, My reasoning is that it is often consists of calculation but not thought. I would caution against self-confidence in ones own reason or those who seem rarely to doubt their ability to prevail. They are not just intelligent, but pride themselves on being ‘rational,’ and those types of people are indeed to a rather frightening degree above ‘sentimentality’ and in love with ‘theory,’ theirs is a world of sheer mental effort. One can manipulate facts to fit logical argumentation, but also to fit self-serving narrative and delude themselves into believing their self-serving narrative is actually cold hard undeniable logic and reason.

    Emotions color our understanding of memory and situations, I would argue one cannot divorce the emotional from ones ability to reason and think one has done so is merely a self-deluded individual.
    But to what end, must another party, know of one's emotional literacy ; other, than that of manipulation?

    It is a delusion to begin with. The basis of this, make-belief idea, this fantasy that is conjured based on emotions. Is it reasonable, to end the contact to a person, whom you put trust in, on no other virtue, than needing to know their emotional context?

    What does it matter? What does it matter, what my emotions would be, if i have proven in actions, proven in words - That i was there for them, that i am a man of my word?

    Would my actions mean less, if i was angry? Would they mean MORE, if i was angry? It's a mere gesture, a farse, a Expression! Nothing, but an abstract expression!

    If i live my actions, as i do my words ; What does it matter, what i feel?

    Then, as far as i see it, the only one delusional, is the Emotional people. For they live a lie, they live a grandiose imagined lie, based on the cowardice of lacking the capacity of living the truth they so desperately desire, clearly.

  10. #170
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    But to what end, must another party, know of one's emotional literacy ; other, than that of manipulation?

    It is a delusion to begin with. The basis of this, make-belief idea, this fantasy that is conjured based on emotions. Is it reasonable, to end the contact to a person, whom you put trust in, on no other virtue, than needing to know their emotional context?

    What does it matter? What does it matter, what my emotions would be, if i have proven in actions, proven in words - That i was there for them, that i am a man of my word?

    Would my actions mean less, if i was angry? Would they mean MORE, if i was angry? It's a mere gesture, a farse, a Expression! Nothing, but an abstract expression!

    If i live my actions, as i do my words ; What does it matter, what i feel?

    Then, as far as i see it, the only one delusional, is the Emotional people. For they live a lie, they live a grandiose imagined lie, based on the cowardice of lacking the capacity of living the truth they so desperately desire, clearly.
    You seem to be operating under the idea that emotions come in like a wrecking ball and disrupt our otherwise rational and thinking mind. Consider the work of psychologists Dacher Keltner and Paul Ekman who suggest that our brains use emotion to organize, rather than disrupt rational thinking. Emotions do not exist in direct difference to rationalism or reason but are instead an inseparable aspect TO rationalism.

    You are reasonably upset about this injustice, but that again is a reasonable thought encoded with emotion. You are angry, justifiably so because you feel you were betrayed for reasons that you do no think make any sense. I would argue the other party was at fault for not believing you understood emotions.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2016-08-06 at 11:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    You seem to be operating under the idea that emotions come in like a wrecking ball and disrupt our otherwise rational and thinking mind. Consider the work of psychologists Dacher Keltner and Paul Ekman who suggest that our brains use emotion to organize, rather than disrupt rational thinking. Emotions do not exist in direct difference to rationalism or reason but are instead an inseparable aspect TO rationalism.

    You are reasonably upset about this injustice, but that again is a reasonable thought encoded with emotion. You are angry, justifiably so because you feel you were betrayed for reasons that you do no think make any sense. I would argue the other party was at fault for not believing you understood emotions.
    But such is the world, that i have observed.

    People that live lies, of emotions and delusional aspects, based on hopes, dreams, neglect, pride, ego - They refuse to cope with reality, based on emotions, and neglect actions in favor of emotions.

    I see no rationalism, in people saying things, for no other virtue, than their own sense of Emotional satisfaction. Where is the rational in that?

    What is the reasoning, in having emotions, run high, and assume things about people ; project things, based on gains, based on motives, on superstision - Where is the reasoning in that?

    It defies any and all rationale ; rationally speaking, insisting to break contact with someone, upon the virtue, of that they refused to respond to you, when you are clearly upset to the degree of not even processing emotion properly anymore.. Where is the reality check?

    Where is the reality check, in people asserting assumed facts and superimposing ideas unto others, with no giving logic, more so than favoring emotional logic?

    And whilst that is an idea, infused with emotions, i don't let my emotions run high in terms of exposing them unto others, without reason, do i? Which is why i am so confused, i don't see, how people can live the way of just having an overflow of emotion, just having this, WORLD of Emotions, that doesn't even boil down to rational logic anymore.

    They felt something, ergo, no matter how appropiate, people would express emotions for their own sanity? But where is the reality check?

  12. #172
    Perhaps, depending on what makes a person happy.

    But if it doesn't directly harm anyone else, what business is it of us to judge? You only live once, afterall. Might as well enjoy it as much as possible.
    ~RAWR!

  13. #173
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    You seem to be operating under the idea that emotions come in like a wrecking ball and disrupt our otherwise rational and thinking mind. Consider the work of psychologists Dacher Keltner and Paul Ekman who suggest that our brains use emotion to organize, rather than disrupt rational thinking. Emotions do not exist in direct difference to rationalism or reason but are instead an inseparable aspect TO rationalism.

    You are reasonably upset about this injustice, but that again is a reasonable thought encoded with emotion. You are angry, justifiably so because you feel you were betrayed for reasons that you do no think make any sense. I would argue the other party was at fault for not believing you understood emotions.
    Is anyone actually arguing that they are separable? It's not about becoming an emotionless robot, it's about letting them rise and fall like the tide. Emotions are something you cannot control no matter how hard you try, they will happen regardless of anything you do. What takes practice and patience is letting them come no matter the intensity and not letting yourself be comsumed by them. It's about trying to create a large enough window between the emotion and your reaction to it. For example, if you banged your elbow and instantly started to shake it off you might bang it again because you had no control over your reaction, but what you should want is to be able to calmly deal with your newly smashed elbow. You still feel pain, and that white hot rush of blood, but you're free to appropriately respond to events rather than simply reacting. You can never be 100% happy at all times but you can have inner peace at all times, even if you're depressed, or furious or anything else.

  14. #174
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    It has no value. It's simply how it works. Pleasure is positive experience; it is what is sought. Suffering is negative experience; it is what is avoided. Together they form preference, which underlies all of those values you keep talking about. Asking why pleasure takes precedent over anything else humans desire is like asking why satiation takes precedent over ingesting whatever random thing you name. It's not in competition with ingesting whatever random thing you name. It's the point of ingesting. Likewise, pleasure is not in competition with those desires. Pleasure is the very reason for those desires.
    I would question the assignment of "positive," and "negative," to these emotive states is itself basically saying "Good," and "Bad." People want to have pleasure, sure, that is absolutely true. But our desire for it doesn't make it positive purely because we desire it. Positive is itself a moralistic term. So I would ask again how you can erase all moral concerns from the equation while at the same time requiring us to accept the positivism of pleasure as justification for the "Would you rather" scenario.

    If pleasure isn't in competition why would those other concerns be irrelevant? That it would be okay to deprive people of all those other desires but as long as they are in a chemically induced stupor of endless pleasure it will all be fine/positive or "good?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  15. #175
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    I just received a bucket of KFC containing 1.5kg of hotwings and crispystrips.

    Is happiness bad for us? Yes. Definately yes.

  16. #176
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I read it as "Wouldn't a world be better if it was somehow exactly as it is but everyone was happy about it." That sort of thought has some radical implications. The man or woman dying a miserable death from some incurable disease? Smiles! The woman soon to be married off to her rapist? Smiles!

    I mean I guess there would be peace and happiness, but it would be to my mind a kind of insanity. Unhappiness and discontent are the only means of changing anything or striving for anything to become different, new, reformed, improved or changed. If all the world is content at the very least the world will become a completely stagnate place.
    Hmm..You just gave me a very interesting thought.

    Is it possible to be happy to be unhappy? As in you become averse to being happy due to fear of losing said happiness or a form of general apathy?

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