Is rogue hard to master?

[jSewell]

Rogue has always been a "easy to learn, hard to master class" with a very high skill cap. Their dps rotations have been made more fluid or "simple" for the most part, but they still have the tools to easily distinguish, in pvp anyways, a gladiator from a <2000 player.

[panzaghor]

Deeper Strategem? Wat?

1. That's a 45 talent
2. You don't use it as Sub


Sub now is literally pooling energy and dumping everything into dance/Vanish as often as you can. Oh, and keeping Rupt.. Ehm, Nightblade, up.

If you want to admit it or not its up to you but DS is a good talent even now that we dont have finality, im using it and if you take a look at the logs you will see that I'm not alone

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I've also played it since TBC. And it IS easy. There is literally nothing to it. Pooling for Dance and keeping 1 ability and a buff rolling. That's it.

Please do tell me what more there "is to it".

If you think about it WoD sub was easier, pool for SD and keep rupture and SnD up

[shaunika123]

Nope, after they destroyed the complexity of subtetly, it aint hard to master

god this triggers me so hard

as someone who's basically played sub for 11 years, i just dont see how this particular version of sub was soooo much more complex than anything that came before or after

the only reason it was semi complex is because the setbonuses made it so, but if you strip that away it's basically the same difficulty as legion sub

maintain 2 stuff, manage your cooldowns, manage your energy, dont waste globals during your cooldowns, and learn the proper opener

whoopty fucking do, we need to stop putting t18 sub on a pedestal,

in pvp it's much less complex i do give you that, but it also kinda needed to be since 7 CC spells on one class is basically unbalancable in the current game

Deeper Strategem? Wat?

1. That's a 45 talent
2. You don't use it as Sub

.

that was so wrong it almost became right again, have you even looked at the logs? you use DS on quite a few fights even on 100 and on 110 it's the absolute best talent once you get energetic stabbing

t18 and the generally fast fights also make sub deceptively easy ,as well as the lack of artifact which will add some additional depth

[panzaghor]

god this triggers me so hard

as someone who's basically played sub for 11 years, i just dont see how this particular version of sub was soooo much more complex than anything that came before or after

the only reason it was semi complex is because the setbonuses made it so, but if you strip that away it's basically the same difficulty as legion sub

maintain 2 stuff, manage your cooldowns, manage your energy, dont waste globals during your cooldowns, and learn the proper opener

whoopty fucking do, we need to stop putting t18 sub on a pedestal,

in pvp it's much less complex i do give you that, but it also kinda needed to be since 7 CC spells on one class is basically unbalancable in the current game





that was so wrong it almost became right again, have you even looked at the logs? you use DS on quite a few fights even on 100 and on 110 it's the absolute best talent once you get energetic stabbing

t18 and the generally fast fights also make sub deceptively easy ,as well as the lack of artifact which will add some additional depth

THANK YOU, finally found someone who really knows the spec. If you got 13/13 in one year doesn't mean you know more than a casual player that have been playing the same spec for years.

[Lazuli]

Nope, after they destroyed the complexity of subtetly, it aint hard to master

As much as I and many others thought sub rogue was going to be demolished skill-wise, I think it still has a high skill cap. It feels strong when used well, but if you are trash you won't get anywhere unless you properly CC.

It is easier than it was, but honestly the only thing harder was all the macro's and shit you had to have. It feels almost the same to me but with a built in shadowstep and less bloat. It is more active and fun than just spamming ambush imo plus I love they gave shadow blades back.

Can't speak for other specs atm just resubbed yesterday reluctantly.

[lolpve]

Sub used to have a very high skill cap in pvp, perhaps the highest, but not anymore. All of the specs have low skillcaps in pvp now and they always did in pve since essentially pve is about learning a scripted encounter, the rotation itself can be mastered in an hour on a dummy same as every other class.

Very sad what they did to pvp sub, it was the only reason many people bothered to play rogues. Go watch some old reckful videos and count how many things he does were removed from the spec in legion.

[Schmilblick]

"Was", now it on par with a BC Ret difficulty.

[KiwifruitOCE]

Sub in legion is harder to master than sub was in wod. Assassination is slightly easier. Outlaw is a slightly harder than wod combat.

Seeing as assassination and outlaw are looking like the go to specs in legion, you shouldn't have much issue doing well or even mastering the class. Assassination has very few tricks to it, so its quite easy to play it optimally with a little practice.

[Evolixe]

If you think about it WoD sub was easier, pool for SD and keep rupture and SnD up

Except that managing cooldowns correctly was so much more critical that it could completely make or break your run.
As long as you manage dance correctly now (which is a joke) you can keep up with the pack.
Shadow Blades is so static you can pretty much macro it in your first opening attack and Symbols is just a simple toggle.

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that was so wrong it almost became right again, have you even looked at the logs? you use DS on quite a few fights even on 100 and on 110 it's the absolute best talent once you get energetic stabbing

t18 and the generally fast fights also make sub deceptively easy ,as well as the lack of artifact which will add some additional depth

It's pretty funny seeing you guys defend this iteration of sub the way you do. You can say whatever you want, I find it a hell of a lot less stressful on my brain than WoD's version. I've played Rogue for 10 years now and never have I been able to play sub as relaxed as now. I won't complain, Although the life-expectancy of my 1-key might have shortened a bit with how often we use Shadowstrike now.

So I handnt looked at the logs because I really don't care right now. I imagne I'm not the only one.
Still, DS is competative right now. Sometimes better and sometimes not. Things will change, and it might affect this.

You can't say whats going to be "best" right now. You just can't.

[panzaghor]

Except that managing cooldowns correctly was so much more critical that it could completely make or break your run.
As long as you manage dance correctly now (which is a joke) you can keep up with the pack.
Shadow Blades is so static you can pretty much macro it in your first opening attack and Symbols is just a simple toggle.

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It's pretty funny seeing you guys defend this iteration of sub the way you do. You can say whatever you want, I find it a hell of a lot less stressful on my brain than WoD's version. I've played Rogue for 10 years now and never have I been able to play sub as relaxed as now. I won't complain, Although the life-expectancy of my 1-key might have shortened a bit with how often we use Shadowstrike now.

So I handnt looked at the logs because I really don't care right now. I imagne I'm not the only one.
Still, DS is competative right now. Sometimes better and sometimes not. Things will change, and it might affect this.

You can't say whats going to be "best" right now. You just can't.

You forgot to do your homework right? You need to refresh both of them at the right time, you can get SoD 46 secs and Shadow Blades with up to 24. SnD was easier than SoD because you just had to press it, with SoD you need to micro manage your SD charges to refresh it at the right time.
You guys are like a bunch of kids complaining that they changed your beloved spec but you guys are pretty new to it because you are always changing to the flavor of month, we are still one of the specs with the highest skillcap out there, I've seen you guys crying about the damned shadow dance stance bar but I managed to solve it with one simple change in my bars, been using it since it was released and I was able to get used to the new one with ease. Wait until you see the complete spec with the artifact.
If DS is competitive now it will be even better with more damage on our finishers, Vigor is better because of our current trinket and legion will change this.

[Evolixe]

You forgot to do your homework right? You need to refresh both of them at the right time, you can get SoD 46 secs and Shadow Blades with up to 24. SnD was easier than SoD because you just had to press it, with SoD you need to micro manage your SD charges to refresh it at the right time.
You guys are like a bunch of kids complaining that they changed your beloved spec but you guys are pretty new to it because you are always changing to the flavor of month, we are still one of the specs with the highest skillcap out there, I've seen you guys crying about the damned shadow dance stance bar but I managed to solve it with one simple change in my bars, been using it since it was released and I was able to get used to the new one with ease. Wait until you see the complete spec with the artifact.
If DS is competitive now it will be even better with more damage on our finishers, Vigor is better because of our current trinket and legion will change this.

Flavour of the Month? Good one, but I've been a Rogue main for the entire time. Through every patch.
And Shadow Dance bar is an easy solve.. just don't use stealth bars.

You don't have to micromanage anything. You got 3 charges that recharge quicker than you can blink your eyes. Just don't use them all up /facepalm

[panzaghor]

Flavour of the Month? Good one, but I've been a Rogue main for the entire time. Through every patch.
And Shadow Dance bar is an easy solve.. just don't use stealth bars.

You don't have to micromanage anything. You got 3 charges that recharge quicker than you can blink your eyes. Just don't use them all up /facepalm

How hard it was to manage your SnD?

[Evolixe]

How hard it was to manage your SnD?

About as hard as it is to manage Nightblade. Without the need to think about Rupture at all. Or the other way around, whichever you'll have

The point was, like I said before, the cooldown management. You had to be pinpoint precise to make the most of it.
Now you just have to "not use it all".. unless the fight is ending soon; naturally.

[shaunika123]

About as hard as it is to manage Nightblade. Without the need to think about Rupture at all. Or the other way around, whichever you'll have

The point was, like I said before, the cooldown management. You had to be pinpoint precise to make the most of it.
Now you just have to "not use it all".. unless the fight is ending soon; naturally.

yes because "shadow dance is coming back up in a few seconds, better not spend energy" is such a strain on the brain
the entirety of t18 sub was literally a script, you did everything the same every time and just tunneled a boss with your rotation, which was relatively complex but once you learned it you couldnt really fuck it up anymore, and as i said, t18 makes legion sub way easier than it actually will be in legion

[panzaghor]

About as hard as it is to manage Nightblade. Without the need to think about Rupture at all. Or the other way around, whichever you'll have

The point was, like I said before, the cooldown management. You had to be pinpoint precise to make the most of it.
Now you just have to "not use it all".. unless the fight is ending soon; naturally.

Yea because using you SD on cool down is soooooooo hard, harder than managing your charges. The only thing that I can see here is that you are possibly dumb but maybe you are just too proud to lose this argument.

[Evolixe]

Yea because using you SD on cool down is soooooooo hard, harder than managing your charges. The only thing that I can see here is that you are possibly dumb but maybe you are just too proud to lose this argument.

Clearly Dance was the only cooldown we had. Yup. lol

I'm way past argueing anything, I have my opinion and you aren't going to change it. Winning internet arguments is such a life accomplishment. Oh wait..
You can agree to disagree, but you won't get any further than that.

[panzaghor]

The first option then.