I don't get why people think Maiev's a bitch but Illidan is not

[scorpious1109]

She was literally established as a traitor and villain in Wolfheart, I don't know why Blizzard seems to be ignoring all that.

[Deleted]

Her entire life is dedicated to stalking and harrasing one person. Especially after that lesbian died. Maiev is few levels lower than illidan on scale of being miserable.

Which lesbian are we talking about?

[Arrashi]

Which lesbian are we talking about?

The one killed by dwayne "the rock" johnson in warcraft 3.

[Makorus]

She was literally established as a traitor and villain in Wolfheart, I don't know why Blizzard seems to be ignoring all that.

Because Knaak is an awful writer and we should just ignore everything he writes.

[Enthralled]

People got attached to Illidan as an anti hero, they find what he's done easier to excuse. Maiev on the other hand was never portrayed in a positive light, wasn't a playable character in Warcraft 3,

What? LOL. Yes she was. The story of Maiev/Illidan/Malf/Tyrande and the the chase from Kalimdor to the Broken Isles and finally to EK is told mainly from her POV. She is actually a badass to play with awesome abilities.

and crucially has become what she hated, which they've emphasised, but since nobody was ever on her side, people have no sympathy for her as they do for Illidan. She was in the whole for 10000 years watching him after all, that's enough to send anyone mad.

I am in the minority as I do not hate her and I would like to see a redemption of sorts for her as well, since she is so closely tied to him. I think we are going to see that, actually, judging from what happened in the fourth and last part of the audio drama.

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Which lesbian are we talking about?

Oh, Naisha. Some people like to ship her with Maiev.

[oblakoff]

Just read "Wolfheart" and you will know why.

[AvCloudy]

FYI incase you didn't notice, the naga were slaughtering natives and destroying their lands in Zagnarmarsh, then we had the slavepens which basically had slaves from all over outland, Illidan didn't bat an eye

Then we had gruul whom was allied with Illidan who slaughtered Og'rilla ogres, Illidan doesen't bat an eye

Then we have Fel orcs that were allowed to bleed magtheridon dry and use his blood to force Mar'ghars into becoming fel orcs, else they were killed, Illidan doesen't bat an eye

Then we have the dragonmaw clan that enslaves and tortures dragons, Illidan doesen't bat an eye

He gives free housing to both Sinestra and Teron Gorefiend

Then we have the part where the Broken draenei were basically forced into serving Illidan, even if Akama didn't want to he would be forced to because of the shade of akama.

Then we have the part where Illidan attempted to kill Night elves because they saw him take water from the well of enternity, He even assaulted Jarrod shadowsong!

Just some minor corrections: Gruul didn't work for Illidan. They were allied to some degree but I doubt Illidan was able to tell Gruul killing ogres was bad. Sinestra didn't work for him either; his Dragonmaw clan orcs were betraying him to deliver netherwing eggs to her. Shadowsong tried to stop Illidan from taking vials from the Well of Eternity - an action Illidan believed vital to the continued existence of Azeroth (which he is very likely to have been right about).

Not to diminish the fact that Illidan is always eager to enslave others to fight the Legion, just wanted to clear some stuff up.

[Elim Garak]

Bitch implies female so how is this even a mystery?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

What? LOL. Yes she was. The story of Maiev/Illidan/Malf/Tyrande and the the chase from Kalimdor to the Broken Isles and finally to EK is told mainly from her POV. She is actually a badass to play with awesome abilities.



I am in the minority as I do not hate her and I would like to see a redemption of sorts for her as well, since she is so closely tied to him. I think we are going to see that, actually, judging from what happened in the fourth and last part of the audio drama.

Interesting, I didn't know that. I gather most people liked Illidan more though (especially younger players). If you're an Illidan fan, then she's a bad guy. Nostalgia probably comes into it, you know what he did was wrong now but he's still the cool flippy guy you loved as a kid. Maiev's character hasn't developed well either, descending further into madness, completely consumed by hatred. She'd probably make a good demon hunter if she set her mind to it.

[Enthralled]

Interesting, I didn't know that. I gather most people liked Illidan more though (especially younger players). If you're an Illidan fan, then she's a bad guy. Nostalgia probably comes into it, you know what he did was wrong now but he's still the cool flippy guy you loved as a kid. Maiev's character hasn't developed well either, descending further into madness, completely consumed by hatred. She'd probably make a good demon hunter if she set her mind to it.

/whispers
I think she's going to. "Maiev Demonsong" has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

[Fallen Angel]

Bitch implies female so how is this even a mystery?

If we're going to be trying to divert the topic let's at least get it right that it implies female canine.

[Melsiren]

Rule of cool my friend, rule of cool.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

/whispers
I think she's going to. "Maiev Demonsong" has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

I'd be super interested to see the story go that way. Nobbel would be happy about it I'm sure, one step closer to Illiev being a thing.

[Deleted]

She also tried to kill malfurion, tyrande, and anyone who support highbourne returning

Yes, but in Legion that part is somewhat changed as far as I know, I think in a conversation with her brother it is claimed that there was something affecting her, like a corruption of sorts

[Deleted]

well, technically she is a bitch, other than that well, no, not really, although she is responsible for the Lich King, so she is kind of a dumb bitch, but then it is nothing out of norm. oh and she is a traitor technically, right? so hm yes, she is a bitch after all, dumb bitch.

[Deleted]

Well. Illidan is not exactly mentally unstable, neither has he directly done anything to jeopardize the world, night elves just painted that target on him, with probable cause (from their own perspective) that has since been proven as falsehood. Illidan also lead a group of night elf mages in combat effectively during the War of the Ancients, he was helping every single step of the way. Illidan never chased or tried to kill his brother or people who disagreed with his life choices, instead he avoided them. He tried to raise an army and enough power to effectively combat the Legion and was struck down by a traitor and a (at that point in time) partially insane grief-stricken shadow priestess who used to be his jailer.

Maiev killed INNOCENT highborne who were trying to live their lives peacefully after having reconnected with the night elves and been invited back into their lands. She actively chased and tried to capture and kill them. When people tried to stop her she actively tried to kill them including Malfurion and HER OWN BROTHER Jarod. She chased someone who literally was harming no one except demons and demon-worshippers, the only nelves he ever killed was in self-defence.

That's why Maiev is a bitch, and Illidan isn't.


Edit: The only genocides perpetrated by the Illidari have been ON THE BURNING LEGION! I'm not saying they're good and guilt free or anything like that. But you're painting a way worse picture of them than how it actually was OP. Oh yeah, and Illidan is already proven as NOT BEING A VILLAIN, he's an anti-hero. He has never been the villain of any story. Know who has? Maiev has.

"neither has he directly done anything to jeopardize the world" - except planting a new Well of Eternity that attracted the Legion again. And trying to shatter Northrend to kill the Lich King, leading to a flooding of epic proportions and earthquakes all over that would have killed countless. And then for Outland, sending Vashj to suck out the water of Zangarmarsh and concentrate it at the Black Temple so that all the inhabitants would flood to him or die.

"the only nelves he ever killed was in self-defence" - except, of course, the Illidari. The future to be demon hunters entered a circle made by Illidan where a demon from their memories would be summoned. They'd battle it and either win or die. Except... Illidan would not intervene even if they did die. He'd let them die. Even if he could have used them as other kind of troops, he simply let them die.
And let's not forget that Maiev followed his tracks after his escape through night elf fishing villages, all destroyed... or are you going to tell me a few fishers posed a significant threat to him?
There are also instances of the skirmishes between demon hunters where one would get lost in their crazyness and kill another while Illidan and his other demon hunters did nothing as long as the demon did not leave the circle.

Maiev is not sane, that is very much true, but to claim Illidan is is madness.

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Which lesbian are we talking about?

Naisha, the huntress she had to leave to die in the Tomb of Sargeras.

[Shaqthefat]

I use this argument way to much but the meaning still stands

Guess killing 6 million jews was alright (My heart goes out to all who died.), because according to some people, the ends doesen't justify the means, well guess what, Axis still lost, and as did the Illidari. While the Illidari didn't commit a genocide at such a massive scale, there was most certainly genocides happening all over outland while they were in power. They both lost and they still commited horrible crimes which their delusional minds thought would help them win their wars.

The Illidari were making progress towards putting a massive dent in the legions army. Illidan had pretty much dedicated hit life to destroying the legion as did the Illidari and Maiev couldn't let go of her charge that she had to stop the only person with the only army that has done anything important against the legion. So how is Illidan actually bad? We literally just went to outland and killed everything except a few factions despite the Illidari secretly helping us which was said in the Illidan novel

[Time Sage]

Well. Illidan is not exactly mentally unstable, neither has he directly done anything to jeopardize the world, night elves just painted that target on him, with probable cause (from their own perspective) that has since been proven as falsehood.
.

He tried to blow up Northrend. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as "jeopardizing the world"

[dokilar]

Both characters are terrible and I never understood the fanboyism for either, or the hate for either. They're the worst kind of bad characters: they make me indifferent, like I don't care either way.

man im glad im not the only one who thinks this. theres nothing about illidan that i find cool or interesting. he's always felt like a whine-o to me.

[Sithalos]

Illidan actually tried to do useful things. I can't think of one useful thing Maiev has ever done.