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  1. #101
    Ah... the famous Noxxxic bulls..t over and over again. I wonder if they ever posted any accurate information at all, given that every time someone links their charts, they seem miles off of any respected actual logs or simulation website (simulationcraft, warcraft logs, etc.). Really, how do they still exist? From what parralel dimension was their info taken?

  2. #102
    Epic! marinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    Ah... the famous Noxxxic bulls..t over and over again. I wonder if they ever posted any accurate information at all, given that every time someone links their charts, they seem miles off of any respected actual logs or simulation website (simulationcraft, warcraft logs, etc.). Really, how do they still exist? From what parralel dimension was their info taken?
    Thats from simcraft,not noxxic.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by marinos View Post
    Thats from simcraft,not noxxic.
    The chart on the first page screams noxxic to me. and in any case, you do realise that simulation craft have not updated their numbers yet for 7.0.3? Partly because current balance in WoW targets 110 (i.e. little point to it) and partly because APL for 7.0.3 simulations for majority of the classes do not exist yet. At least I am 100% sure that Azortharion and Effinhunter still struggle to present a decent code to simulationcraft for hunters, and that the numbers there can be waaay off.

  4. #104
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    The chart on the first page screams noxxic to me. and in any case, you do realise that simulation craft have not updated their numbers yet for 7.0.3? Partly because current balance in WoW targets 110 (i.e. little point to it) and partly because APL for 7.0.3 simulations for majority of the classes do not exist yet. At least I am 100% sure that Azortharion and Effinhunter still struggle to present a decent code to simulationcraft for hunters, and that the numbers there can be waaay off.
    The chart i linked is 110 from simcraft. No one is talking about the OP anymore.

    Though worth noting 2 things.

    First, the noxxic charts were actually made with the simcraft tool, according to them and refers to characters without legendary rings and set bonuses. Before you claim them to be wrong, you need to find an accurate source to compare to. They refer to lvl100.

    Second, simcraft doesn't have an official new release yet, because some things are still under development, but it is acessable and its where the chart i posted come from. It is obviously not officially endorsed as they only want to release data that is as accurate as possible.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-08-06 at 11:23 PM.

  5. #105
    So at this point can we reasonably assume that anyone stating Ret DPS is either shit or great is full of shit?

    Nobody seems to have accurate information which would lean one way or the other.

  6. #106
    High Overlord Temna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    So, i came across this chart. I am not gonna claim it is super accurate on anything. Some things are clearly not finished but it does continue to show the same trend:
    http://imgur.com/iINFSWn?r

    Very worrying...
    Basically all the specs I enjoy thematically are in the the vacuum toilet...hilarious...glad healers aren't there, trying to get my disc-foo going but man is it tricky :/

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    So at this point can we reasonably assume that anyone stating Ret DPS is either shit or great is full of shit?

    Nobody seems to have accurate information which would lean one way or the other.
    I would say there is a trend that actually is consistently showing it beeing very weak. Usually where theres smoke, there is fire. But, hopefully we can get final and accurate charts soon enough. Would be great if they came before the release of legion, but we'll see.

  8. #108
    Two things:

    1.) Those numbers are not from the official sim, therefore can be disregarded as misinformation.

    2.) Patchwerk sims rarely represent the value of a class.

  9. #109
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shadycharacter1 View Post
    Two things:

    1.) Those numbers are not from the official sim, therefore can be disregarded as misinformation.

    2.) Patchwerk sims rarely represent the value of a class.
    This is true only when difference between 1 and last is <20% here you see 52% difference.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackalackin View Post
    Wanted to confirm that even on WCL GBoM is bugged if you have a Ret GBoM himself, and another Ret also GBoM them. Paladin A will get credit for both their GBoM on Paladin B and Paladin B's GBoM on themself.

    Example - Logs from last night

    At 2:15.719 I (Crackalackn), have a BoW tick for 23040 damage. At the same time another ret who has two GBoM's. (himself and me) has a double GBoM tick for 13824 (60% not 30% or does GBoM double-dip on Gorefiends +100% taken debuff?). They don't proc on the same hit often, but when they do they also tick for double(Unless double-dipping), assigned to only one of the two GBoM casters though. Doranos had 50 procs of GBoM from me, while I only had 219 damage incidents over the course of the fight, a 23% proc rate which explains how WCL records me as having no GBoM damage from my self buff.
    Wow, that's a very nice catch. I can't say that I've ever seen that before. That said, I don't think that Ret is exactly high on the totem pole for receiving Might.

    Btw, it looks like Details! was updated to credit Might to the Ret.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    It's also with 3 wings stacks. Thas what worries me the most. We won't have that in Legion. The noxxic chart looks to be in general ballpark to me. At least before any legendaries and new tier sets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, i came across this chart. I am not gonna claim it is super accurate on anything. Some things are clearly not finished but it does continue to show the same trend:
    http://imgur.com/iINFSWn?r

    Very worrying...
    Lol, a chart with mages at the bottom. Thats from simc it seems, but I doubt itll stay that way for long. Anything with mages at the bottom will get fixed, and if they see that they may see us down there too. Only time will tell where we are actually at.

    Edit- My b, didnt realize I was a page or two behind. So, thats a single target fight. I dont know why people still consider ST sims worth looking at, they dont represent much of anything as far as I know.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-08-07 at 07:50 PM.

  12. #112
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Lol, a chart with mages at the bottom. Thats from simc it seems, but I doubt itll stay that way for long. Anything with mages at the bottom will get fixed, and if they see that they may see us down there too. Only time will tell where we are actually at.

    Edit- My b, didnt realize I was a page or two behind. So, thats a single target fight. I dont know why people still consider ST sims worth looking at, they dont represent much of anything as far as I know.
    Mages don't have an implemented T19 profile in Simcraft yet. That's the reason they seem to be broken.^^

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Loewenherz View Post
    Mages don't have an implemented T19 profile in Simcraft yet. That's the reason they seem to be broken.^^
    Ah that makes sense. Should just stay away from Simc right now and wait a bit, nobody seems to have accurate information. Either way, Ive been told every single time I look at a patchwerk sim that Im an idiot and that basing anything off of a patchwerk sim is stupid and overtime I realized thats obviously true. So, not like that chart really holds anything.

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Ah that makes sense. Should just stay away from Simc right now and wait a bit, nobody seems to have accurate information. Either way, Ive been told every single time I look at a patchwerk sim that Im an idiot and that basing anything off of a patchwerk sim is stupid and overtime I realized thats obviously true. So, not like that chart really holds anything.
    Basically the specs that say TEMP are not working properly atm. There also doesn't seem to be one with DH T19, wich i'm betting would show them even higher. Its basically a temporary chart. More of a work in progress thing.

    Patchwerk fights naturally are very rare. Every fight seems to have a mix of adds these days, but the single target charts still tell you how you will do on the boss itself. So, in real fights you have a bit more value on bursting or cleaving AoE targets. But don't take this as the bottom class is now going to become top. That just doesn't happen.

    In the case of Ret, single target is supposed to actually be our strong point... so yeah... lol.

  15. #115
    That stuff looks depressing, i dont PvE and this stuff makes me want to add whiskey to my Coffee @ work >.<

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shadycharacter1 View Post
    Two things:

    1.) Those numbers are not from the official sim, therefore can be disregarded as misinformation.

    2.) Patchwerk sims rarely represent the value of a class.
    can´t disagree on the first thing. until there are still bugs to sort out we have to be careful.

    for the second I have to tell you that ret will lose more dps than any other melee so there will be no change to our relative position in the charts (can´t get any worse than last in the charts^^)

  17. #117
    Deleted
    As i don't want to be accused of posting only the ugly stuff, for those that enjoy charts there is a new version, still totally incomplete but better. Please don't take this as anything else than a temporary and limited sample, just like the other chart i found.

    This one is apparantly without relics and 840ilvl. Still alot of things missing. Again i urge you to take this with a whole ton of salt (not the QQ one). Not good for anything but giggles and a seeing where things are trending.

    http://imgur.com/4yjscmf

    Not rock bottom on this one, wich is a nice change. I hear we will scale well with the artifact, so this is looking a bit more promising.
    Again though... incomplete. Don't take it as final numbers.

    This is probably the last time i post one of these as people get angry about them. :P Hopefully won't be too long until we get the final numbers.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-08-17 at 03:20 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    As i don't want to be accused of posting only the ugly stuff, for those that enjoy charts there is a new version, still totally incomplete but better. Please don't take this as anything else than a temporary and limited sample, just like the other chart i found.
    Honestly the way ret works, they have some damage [edit: mitigation] and utility that I find other classes lack, and so I typically expect them to only be in roughly the middle of the bunch. I love ret but I don't expect them to be anywhere but the middle.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    As i don't want to be accused of posting only the ugly stuff, for those that enjoy charts there is a new version, still totally incomplete but better. Please don't take this as anything else than a temporary and limited sample, just like the other chart i found.

    This one is apparantly without relics and 840ilvl. Still alot of things missing. Again i urge you to take this with a whole ton of salt (not the QQ one). Not good for anything but giggles and a seeing where things are trending.

    http://imgur.com/4yjscmf

    Not rock bottom on this one, wich is a nice change. I hear we will scale well with the artifact, so this is looking a bit more promising.
    Again though... incomplete. Don't take it as final numbers.

    This is probably the last time i post one of these as people get angry about them. :P Hopefully won't be too long until we get the final numbers.
    Ret is above Unholy? Somehow I'm not convinced.

  20. #120
    Been playing my retired ret recently and got him a 725 weapon and like 705'ish gear overall. I thought with the 725 weapon the dmg would come but it feels very underwelming. I'm not an expert on paladains but to me the 'Retribution' passive feels wrong. I would rather have like 15% more dmg all the time and the reduction when someone dies. Other than that I enjoy it but feel it could realy use some buff in sustained damage.

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