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  1. #101
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Maiev on the other hand was never portrayed in a positive light, wasn't a playable character in Warcraft 3,
    erm yes she was?

    (i did not choose crendors vid on purpose if someone wonders, google spit it out)


    Formerly known as Arafal

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Okay, but as far as our government is concerned...https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardo...d-instructions
    Yes fine, that was a retarded statement, I have 0 knowledge as far as how much power the president has.
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  3. #103
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAMyouhaveaids View Post
    Could say the same about your delusional denial about Tyrande breaking into the Warden headquarters
    oh of corse she did, but she told them she wanted them to release him, but they refused

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Yes, actually, a town mayor can say no when the President asks him to pass something, but your piss-poor education is beside the point. The WarCraft 3 mission in which Tyrande frees Illidan makes it explicitly clear that she does not have the authority to do so.
    piss poor no, based on google searches yes, i live in canada so i would say prime minister but.. and no she said she was going to free him, they refused, so she had to go in by force
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    oh of corse she did, but she told them she wanted them to release him, but they refused
    And if someone refuses you something, you have no power over them, simple.
    An'u belore delen'na

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal123 View Post
    erm yes she was?

    (i did not choose crendors vid on purpose if someone wonders, google spit it out)
    Point taken, mistakes were made.

  6. #106
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAMyouhaveaids View Post
    And if someone refuses you something, you have no power over them, simple.
    yes but if i was at work, and my boss asked me to do something, and i refused i would be fired, and so would you, or anyone...
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    yes but if i was at work, and my boss asked me to do something, and i refused i would be fired, and so would you, or anyone...
    And the WarCraft 3 mission explicitly states that Tyrande is not the boss of Illidan's jailers and has no authority there. You being willfully ignorant does not change that fact.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by BAMyouhaveaids View Post
    And if someone refuses you something, you have no power over them, simple.
    That's wrong on several levels. First off, power has multiple definitions. It's pretty obvious that FelPlague is talking about just authority. It's totally possible to disobey someone that has just authority over you. Like, if I'm at work and my boss tells me to do something perfectly reasonable, like faxing off some documents, if I disobey him that doesn't automatically make me right simply by the virtue that I disobeyed him.

    FelPlague's argument is that Tyrande has just authority over the watchers, they disobeyed her so she killed them. You're trying to counter his argument by saying that the watchers disobeyed her, therefore she did not have just authority over them. I don't know if his argument is correct or not, (because I'm not an expert in Night Elf law) but your argument is certainly wrong. It's completely illogical.

    Furthermore, if we're talking other definitions of power, refusal followed by compulsion doesn't really demonstrate much if any power. I mean, if I tell you to die, and you refuse me, then I shoot you four times in the head, who really had the power there?
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2016-08-08 at 12:31 AM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by BAMyouhaveaids View Post
    Yes fine, that was a retarded statement, I have 0 knowledge as far as how much power the president has.
    He has the authority to execute the law, but not to enact it (or at least isn't supposed to be able to), and has little to no direct authority over state and local governments, except perhaps during time of rebellion. In other words, he has the power to enforce Federal law, but he can't force State or Local governments to do things that they don't want to do unless it is a Federal issue. For example, the President couldn't force states to desegregate schools until there was a Supreme Court ruling that said segregated schools were unconstitutional.

  10. #110
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    That's wrong on several levels. First off, power has multiple definitions. It's pretty obvious that FelPlague is talking about just authority. It's totally possible to disobey someone that has just authority over you. Like, if I'm at work and my boss tells me to do something perfectly reasonable, like faxing off some documents, if I disobey him that doesn't automatically make me right simply by the virtue that I disobeyed him.

    FelPlague's argument is that Tyrande has just authority over the watchers, they disobeyed her so she killed them. You're trying to counter his argument by saying that the watchers disobeyed her, therefore she did not have just authority over them. I don't know if his argument is correct or not, (because I'm not an expert in Night Elf law) but your argument is certainly wrong. It's completely illogical.

    Furthermore, if we're talking other definitions of power, refusal followed by compulsion doesn't really demonstrate much if any power. I mean, if I tell you to die, and you refuse me, then I shoot you four times in the head, who really had the power there?
    exaclty... yes either 1 or 2

    1. as the leader of the night elves she also has power over the wardens
    2. as thew leaders of the night elves, for the wardens to disobey such a huge force, would be horrible "yeah us like 100 wardens will disobey the kingdom of a million night elves!"

    she said hey im the leader of all night elves, i need you to let illidan free, and i command you to (either because she owns them, or because the power of the night elf kingdoms is much more then the wardens)
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-08-08 at 12:39 AM.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    He has the authority to execute the law, but not to enact it (or at least isn't supposed to be able to), and has little to no direct authority over state and local governments, except perhaps during time of rebellion. In other words, he has the power to enforce Federal law, but he can't force State or Local governments to do things that they don't want to do unless it is a Federal issue. For example, the President couldn't force states to desegregate schools until there was a Supreme Court ruling that said segregated schools were unconstitutional.
    While that's all true, it does kind of leave out that the military is sworn to obey the President.

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962)."

  12. #112
    what am I reading here, lol???

  13. #113
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    He has the authority to execute the law, but not to enact it (or at least isn't supposed to be able to), and has little to no direct authority over state and local governments, except perhaps during time of rebellion. In other words, he has the power to enforce Federal law, but he can't force State or Local governments to do things that they don't want to do unless it is a Federal issue. For example, the President couldn't force states to desegregate schools until there was a Supreme Court ruling that said segregated schools were unconstitutional.
    like how the world is about to end, a beat as big as a sky scrapper is on its way to destroy the world, and she needs this one mans help?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    what am I reading here, lol???
    You're reading me being a complete Jackass
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  15. #115
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAMyouhaveaids View Post
    You're reading me being a complete Jackass
    thank you for admiting it :3 btw dont delete posts, it does nothing but makes you look stupid, as we have qouted it... for a "tactitian whos edge is his ability to anticipate and plan for the moves his enemy will make" you dident anticipate me and a few others would qoute your post you deleted :P

    you fucked up, you got a few lore points wrong, it happens, ive done it a few times aswell :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    While that's all true, it does kind of leave out that the military is sworn to obey the President.

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962)."
    Okay? That's totally irrelevant to the issue of how much authority the President has over state and local governments, and also irrelevant to the issue of Tyrande and the Wardens since the Kal'dorei don't follow the U.S. Constitution or the U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment.

    The WarCraft 3 mission explicitly states Tyrande doesn't have the authority to free Illidan. The dialogue from the Wardens isn't "No, we refuse to follow your lawful orders," it is "The goddess herself condemns Illidan" and "This place is forbidden to you." They opposed Tyrande because it was their duty to do so.

  17. #117
    Maev is a bitch, that is pretty much fact. Illidan is an asshole, you may not like him but he gets shit done.

  18. #118
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Okay? That's totally irrelevant to the issue of how much authority the President has over state and local governments, and also irrelevant to the issue of Tyrande and the Wardens since the Kal'dorei don't follow the U.S. Constitution or the U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment.

    The WarCraft 3 mission explicitly states Tyrande doesn't have the authority to free Illidan. The dialogue from the Wardens isn't "No, we refuse to follow your lawful orders," it is "The goddess herself condemns Illidan" and "This place is forbidden to you." They opposed Tyrande because it was their duty to do so.
    The goddess herself? That's nice, since Tyrande is the highest ranked priestess of the moon of azeroth. So basically her words are of elune herself, and yet the wardens disobeyed her.

    The watchers answer to their head of government. In other words, Tyrande. Taken out of the wiki page:

    To this end, Malfurion Stormrage requested that Maiev Shadowsong form the Watchers, an elite group of guardians dedicated to guarding Illidan and other imprisoned criminals. Initially, this group was picked from among the Sisters of Elune. There were also some wildkin aiding the night elven guards. Maiev was named warden (a rank to which a select few others were promoted, but she herself selected some to share the title) and would answer only to the official head of government.
    Last edited by Sluvs; 2016-08-08 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Formatting
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Okay? That's totally irrelevant to the issue of how much authority the President has over state and local governments, and also irrelevant to the issue of Tyrande and the Wardens since the Kal'dorei don't follow the U.S. Constitution or the U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment.

    The WarCraft 3 mission explicitly states Tyrande doesn't have the authority to free Illidan. The dialogue from the Wardens isn't "No, we refuse to follow your lawful orders," it is "The goddess herself condemns Illidan" and "This place is forbidden to you." They opposed Tyrande because it was their duty to do so.
    I'll leave out how my statement was relevant to the topic that was being discussed, (because it was an idiotic topic to begin with) and just jump back into the heart of the discussion.

    The bolded is simply untrue. A character in the game implies that Tyrande has no just authority over the watchers. That is not even remotely the same thing as the mission itself explicitly stating anything. Even if one of those characters said something like, "You don't have the authority to command us!" that would still just be the opinion of that character. I mean, what would you say if Tyrande countered that argument by saying, "I do have the authority to command you!"? Would both of those statements be true and false in the same way at the same time?

    That's the problem with taking the opinion of a character as fact. I don't know shit about Night Elven law. I don't know what their laws are, who made them, how they were handed down, or who if anyone has the authority to change them. To know who is right, that is information that we need. I don't have that information, and I doubt that you do either.

  20. #120
    Epic! Enthralled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    thank you for admiting it :3 btw dont delete posts, it does nothing but makes you look stupid, as we have qouted it... for a "tactitian whos edge is his ability to anticipate and plan for the moves his enemy will make" you dident anticipate me and a few others would qoute your post you deleted :P

    you fucked up, you got a few lore points wrong, it happens, ive done it a few times aswell :P
    He's not wrong sbout Tyrande, though. She didn't have the authority to release Illidan and what she did was a gross violation of her people's trust. As I recently argued in another thread, this is a dangling plot line which, to me, has never been satisfactorily resolved. Tyrande got away scot-free with mass-murder because she's the High Priestess and Malf's lover. Maiev gets called a bitch.

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