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  1. #141
    Endus is a dishonest and inconsistent person
    Ahhh... so Primary Color throws in the towel and concedes to Endus.

    Well done Endus

    Primary Color, you lost, so you resort to the only thing left to you, which is a false personal attack.
    Keep up the good work Endus.

    And thank you, Primary Color, for surrendering so dramatically.

  2. #142
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Ahhh... so Primary Color throws in the towel and concedes to Endus.

    Well done Endus

    Primary Color, you lost, so you resort to the only thing left to you, which is a false personal attack.
    Keep up the good work Endus.

    And thank you, Primary Color, for surrendering so dramatically.
    Attacking people based on choices or behavior is okay, attacking people based on some uncontrollable factor is what is not okay. If you read the rest of the sentence you would see that I explained how his talking points are inconsistent with each other based on thread topic.
    Last edited by PC2; 2016-08-08 at 12:46 AM.

  3. #143
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    No it hasn't.

    Unemployment numbers have never included underemployed or those not looking for work anymore.
    This is simply untrue. Both underemployed and discouraged workers are explicitly groups included in the U6 measure (introduced as factors in the U6 and U4, respectively).

    These numbers have been measured for decades. This isn't a new idea. The data you're complaining isn't being considered has been a part of the conversation since the mid-90s.

    Yes, those figures matter. And they're already included. If you're claiming otherwise, then you just do not understand how the BLS measures unemployment, and I've already linked their data at least twice this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Attacking people based on choices or behavior is okay, attacking people based on some uncontrollable factor is what is not okay. If you read the rest of the sentence you would see that I explained how his talking points are inconsistent with each other based on thread topic.
    No, you didn't. You made up a false dichotomy, and then claimed, incorrectly, that there were only two positions, which were mutually exclusive. You ignored that there's a wealth of nuance and such to these questions, and demonstrated that you either do not understand what I'm saying, or you just don't care and are willing to make up lies to slander me.

    Because I did not argue that the current economy is healthy in every way. You claimed I did, and that was false. It's definitely easier when you can just make up a fictitious argument and pretend your opponent said it, but that's literally what a "straw man" argument is. It's irrational and pointless.


  4. #144
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    I love how often the "the real number is super high" argument keeps coming up. If the truth about the economy was really so different from what's been talked about publicly, then there would have to be a vast conspiracy in order to cover it all up and push the most positive narrative. Does anyone who believes the real unemployment number is much higher think that this conspiracy exists? How can you justify believeing a narrative that only a minority accepts when we're talking about facts and data?

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, you didn't. You made up a false dichotomy, and then claimed, incorrectly, that there were only two positions, which were mutually exclusive. You ignored that there's a wealth of nuance and such to these questions, and demonstrated that you either do not understand what I'm saying, or you just don't care and are willing to make up lies to slander me.

    Because I did not argue that the current economy is healthy in every way. You claimed I did, and that was false. It's definitely easier when you can just make up a fictitious argument and pretend your opponent said it, but that's literally what a "straw man" argument is. It's irrational and pointless.
    My claim is that you are being dishonest and inconsistent. That you dont believe the economic system is as healthy as you are portraying in this thread and would drastically change it relative to the positions of Obama/Hillary/Democrats. That you are only painting a positive picture of the economy in this specific case due to the wording of Hubcap's thread. In all other cases you would try to paint a negative gloomy picture of the same economy and claim it isn't working and that big change is needed.
    Last edited by PC2; 2016-08-08 at 01:18 AM.

  6. #146
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    My claim is that you are being dishonest and inconsistent. That you dont believe the economic system is as healthy as you are portraying in this thread and would drastically change it relative to the positions of Obama/Hillary/Democrats. That you are only painting a positive picture of the economy in this specific case due to the wording of Hubcap's thread. In all other cases you would try to paint a negative gloomy picture of the same economy and claim it isn't working and that big change is needed.
    Yes, I know that's your claim.

    Your problem is that it's not true. You've created a false dichotomy, and then falsely ascribed me both positions, so you can try to declare me "dishonest", when the reality is that my actual views are just a little bit more nuanced than your invented extremist positions.

    There are more options than "black" and "white". I'm not "dishonest and inconsistent" for saying that there's a fair bit of gray. And that's literally your only argument. "Look at his 'gray', it's neither black NOR white, exclusively, so he must be a hypocrite!"

    No, that's just a ridiculous and reductionist attack.

    I've commented a lot in various threads over the past few years about the woes of wealth inequality and such; there'd be little reason if the economy was awesometastic as-is. You're mistaking my correcting a pretty blatant piece of misinformation with some strange belief that I must think all parts of the economy are all perfect, because those two particular aspects aren't declining as someone claimed.

    It makes no sense whatsoever.
    Last edited by Endus; 2016-08-08 at 01:56 AM.


  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by wdh1974 View Post
    Watch clinton cash on youtube and kindly stfu about hillary.
    Oh, you mean that book/movie that even the WRITER doesn't have evidence to support? http://www.politicususa.com/2015/04/...on-crimes.html

    From his own words:
    STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you have any evidence that she actually intervened in this issue?

    SCHWEIZER: No, we don’t have direct evidence. But it warrants further investigation because, again, George, this is part of the broader pattern. You either have to come to the conclusion that these are all coincidences or something else is afoot.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: And that — that is that — the Clintons do say it’s a coincidence. As they say, you have produced no evidence. And I still haven’t heard any direct evidence and you just said you had no evidence that she intervened here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombergy View Post
    When you stop counting people who are unemployed the unemployment figures look better.

    You really can sell certain people on anything.
    It was good for Republicans when they were in the oval office, why isn't it fine for Obama? Oh right, he's a Democrat. What is good for Republicans, isn't good for Democrats.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by WiggleTillFriday View Post
    Endus getting destroyed in here. He asked for it, thinking he can just start throwing stats around like he actually knows what is going on. Internet jockey at it's finest.
    Nope, If anyone is getting destroyed, it is the people that don't know how the unemployment numbers are calculated. Namely you and spinner. But then again, spinner has been wrong most of the time on this forum. So I don't expect anything from him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Can you be more specific?
    About what? That prediction he so kindly pulled out of his ass?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenotetsuken View Post
    Sadly, Trump being Trump is the only thing that Hillary needs in order to get elected.
    Sadly Hillary being Hillary is enough to get ANYONE else elected. She's such a turd a SOCIALIST almost got the nomination - and only managed to lose because of DNC shenanigans.

    Even sadder? Idiots who still vote for her corrupt ass.
    [color=blue]This thread has lived beyond its life expectancy. ... It's also met the forum quota for posters insulting the intelligence of their peers to grasp the age-old upper hand in argumentation, I believe officially coined by Plato: "Ur, like, dumb and that's why I'm right." Zarhym


  10. #150
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yes, I know that's your claim.

    Your problem is that it's not true. You've created a false dichotomy, and then falsely ascribed me both positions, so you can try to declare me "dishonest", when the reality is that my actual views are just a little bit more nuanced than your invented extremist positions.

    There are more options than "black" and "white". I'm not "dishonest and inconsistent" for saying that there's a fair bit of gray. And that's literally your only argument. "Look at his 'gray', it's neither black NOR white, exclusively, so he must be a hypocrite!"

    No, that's just a ridiculous and reductionist attack.

    I've commented a lot in various threads over the past few years about the woes of wealth inequality and such; there'd be little reason if the economy was awesometastic as-is. You're mistaking my correcting a pretty blatant piece of misinformation with some strange belief that I must think all parts of the economy are all perfect, because those two particular aspects aren't declining as someone claimed.

    It makes no sense whatsoever.
    You are not understanding the interconnectedness of these issues. You can't simultaneously claim the economy under Obama is healthy but that inequality is not attributable in the same way. Leaders have to take responsibility for the bad and the good, you can't cherry pick.

  11. #151
    Herald of the Titans Zenotetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WernerCD View Post
    Sadly Hillary being Hillary is enough to get ANYONE else elected. She's such a turd a SOCIALIST almost got the nomination - and only managed to lose because of DNC shenanigans.

    Even sadder? Idiots who still vote for her corrupt ass.
    If she were going against literally anybody but Trump, she wouldn't stand a chance... Curious that it worked out that way isn't it? The one person that questionably makes HER look like the lesser of 2 evils, out of ALL of the Republican party, is the one person that she just happens to be up against.

    There is "coincidence", and then there is "Come on people, how can you sit by and do nothing when you are shown like Toto pulling back the curtain on the Wizard, that this whole goddamn system is rigged!?!"


  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenotetsuken View Post
    If she were going against literally anybody but Trump, she wouldn't stand a chance... Curious that it worked out that way isn't it? The one person that questionably makes HER look like the lesser of 2 evils, out of ALL of the Republican party, is the one person that she just happens to be up against.

    There is "coincidence", and then there is "Come on people, how can you sit by and do nothing when you are shown like Toto pulling back the curtain on the Wizard, that this whole goddamn system is rigged!?!"

    I wouldnt say that. If we had Ted Cruz then it would be the same.

  13. #153
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenotetsuken View Post
    If she were going against literally anybody but Trump, she wouldn't stand a chance...
    I take it you were a believer in the runner up Ted Cruz. He was a religous weirdo, I don't think Trump cares about religion very much.
    Last edited by PC2; 2016-08-08 at 02:41 AM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    225 jobs add. People who haven't worked in years returning to work. 4.9% unemployment which is very good for the US. Wages are rising.

    Why should you care? It's a big boost for Hillary, it could get her elected.






    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst.../#424cbf0e782f

    We’ve just got the July employment numbers for the US and they look like there’s strong job growth going on. 255,000 new jobs this month along with an upward revision of the previous month’s numbers. It looks like the US economy is growing well – and what is most important is that those discouraged workers seem to be coming back into the economy and also that they’re able to find jobs. Thus we might say that Janet Yellen’s little gamble on keeping interest rates low for the moment is working and eradicating that rump of long term unemployment that is blighting the US economy as a whole.

    The numbers:
    The American economy roared ahead last month, as employers added 255,000 jobs, a bigger-than-expected gain that suggests the country’s growth rate may be more robust than thought just two months ago.
    Despite the rise in jobs the unemployment number was flat at 4.9%. That would indicate that some more of those dissuaded workers coming in out of their hidden unemployment.
    Payrolls climbed by 255,000 last month, exceeding all forecasts in a Bloomberg survey of 89 economists, following a 292,000 gain in June that was a bit larger than previously estimated, a Labor Department report showed Friday. The jobless rate held at 4.9 percent as many of the people streaming into the labor force found jobs.

    The importance of this is that we know we’ve got two different sets of unemployed people out there. There’s the short term unemployed and as far as they go we think we’re pretty much at full employment. There always will be some number of people because it takes time to get hired, or to choose between possibilities, between jobs. Thus, given that about 20% of all people move jobs each year, it takes a month or three to make the move, there will always be some percentage of “frictional unemployment”. The other group are those who have been out of work for too long to be getting unemployment insurance and so might not even be registered as unemployed. We want to get these people back into the labour force. And what seems to be happening is that they are coming. Thus we can have jobs growth and no change in the unemployment rate.
    Yellen’s gamble has been that this might happen so why not keep interest rates lower for longer. It would appear to be working too.
    Not sure if serious?

    We are living in the historically worst administration in history regarding GDP. I'm not sure how that equates to a roaring economy.

  15. #155
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    You are not understanding the interconnectedness of these issues. You can't simultaneously claim the economy under Obama is healthy but that inequality is not attributable in the same way. Leaders have to take responsibility for the bad and the good, you can't cherry pick.
    I'll wait while you did up the fictitious "everything about the economy is awesome" quote that you apparently think I said.

    Until you do, you're straight-up lying about what I've said. I've corrected you enough times that it can't be accidental any more.


  16. #156
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    I don't get why people are so obsessed with U6. IT'S Fine if you want to use but compare to the historical data of u6 and it pretty much tells the same story as u3

    This one is quite old but it still does the job.
    Last edited by Bollocks; 2016-08-08 at 02:55 AM.

  17. #157
    Herald of the Titans Zenotetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
    I wouldnt say that. If we had Ted Cruz then it would be the same.
    IDK, I think that if it were Cruz in the position, he would be perceived and treated more as just another typical Republican candidate. He would have just sat by and let Hillary and the DNC bury themselves, and just pointed and went 'Do you really want that kind of shit from your President?'.

  18. #158

  19. #159
    Herald of the Titans Zenotetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    I take it you were a believer in the runner up Ted Cruz. He was a religous weirdo, I don't think Trump cares about religion very much.
    God no, I am no Republican.

    Honestly Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that I have seen that actually seems to care about trying to fix the fractures in the country. Everyone else seems to just care about the title, and how they can use it to acquire more power.
    If I can't vote for someone that I feel will be a good President, I will use MY vote to try to push towards change, and vote Jill Stein.
    Last edited by Zenotetsuken; 2016-08-08 at 03:01 AM.

  20. #160
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Cruz is way too much of an extremist (same for Carson and a few others) to win in a general election. If the GOP wanted a candidate to knock out Clinton it would have needed to be someone like Kasich, Rubio, Bush or...maybe Christie if he could do some PR work on his image.

    The problem is that they are all "establishment" and that's not what the GOP base wanted. Unfortunately that's not likely to win them the election and could have some serious downticket issues as they picked the one candidate who not only couldn't attract moderates, but is also pushing away the base.

    Anyway, back on topic -- people really need to understand that google exists and they can't just pull numbers out of their ass in this thread. You may not like the numbers or claim they are magically fake, but things like inflation and unemployment are defined metrics that you simply cannot just make up because you want a certain narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    If only the jobs were those that haven't had stagnant wages for the past 20 years, but I guess that's a whole other issue.
    Actually even that is getting back to historical levels:

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...es/wage-growth

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