[Balance] Legion Discussion

[lappee]

If the targets were spread, I could possibly agree but with stacked up targets, unless something drastically changed in HFC when I stopped playing, we weren't even close from being the best.

If targets were stacked up in a tight 5-10yard radius then sure we werent the best but thats a really small portion of the Area of Effect we had (~5% or so). If you want to consider only the small parts of the AoE concept then we'll be great again in Legion thanks to Fury of Elune

[Deleted]

When was moonkin the aoe king? xD. It was barely top 5 when all cds were up. If you mean multidotting yes, then I could agree but AoE?

Cata shrooms just brings me to drool.

[Selerian]

@Lorgok

that's why I wrote AOE and not cleave. Now apart from semantics would anyone care to answer my original question? What's the Boomkin druid's current identity as a raiding spec? Does it bring anything special to the table or it can be easily be replaced by any other caster with no difference whatsoever?

[Lilija]

@Lorgok

that's why I wrote AOE and not cleave. Now apart from semantics would anyone care to answer my original question? What's the Boomkin druid's current identity as a raiding spec? Does it bring anything special to the table or it can be easily be replaced by any other caster with no difference whatsoever?

Innervate!

But on more serious note I would hope Blizzard is going away from specs bringing something to the table and go for bring the player not the class. Tbh, appart from the very top guilds I really think player means much more than the class. The differences between specs aren't so great that player skill wouldn't turn the table.

[Dragontoth]

Innervate!

But on more serious note I would hope Blizzard is going away from specs bringing something to the table and go for bring the player not the class. Tbh, appart from the very top guilds I really think player means much more than the class. The differences between specs aren't so great that player skill wouldn't turn the table.

They tried "bring the player not the class" in HfC. Instead of having spread classas because of utility or special jobs (burst AOE, mechanics etc.) everybody stacked the class which brings the most dmg. So its more of a FoTM or out kind of situation.

[Deleted]

@Lorgok

that's why I wrote AOE and not cleave. Now apart from semantics would anyone care to answer my original question? What's the Boomkin druid's current identity as a raiding spec? Does it bring anything special to the table or it can be easily be replaced by any other caster with no difference whatsoever?

We have good burst on adds since we can now cast multiple SS back to back without wasting empowerments (and dots being a smaller portion of our single target damage), we have really strong cleave for 10-30 seconds every 1.5 min. (way too niche in its uses atm imo), we have innervate which is absurdly weak in a raid setting unless you 1 heal, and that's about it.

[Lucrece]

They tried "bring the player not the class" in HfC. Instead of having spread classas because of utility or special jobs (burst AOE, mechanics etc.) everybody stacked the class which brings the most dmg. So its more of a FoTM or out kind of situation.

Because they've been screwing hybrids for a while.

Gave shaman's heroism to mages, so you saw shaman numbers in world clears plummet.

Gave rebirth to DK's and warlocks.

Warlocks and mages maintained their unique raid QoL features like healthstones and food tables, while mages, rogues, and hunters remained unique in their access to raid mechanic ignoring immunities.

They took away feral tanking capabilities and didn't make it any better a DPS spec, just a mediocre one with no offtanking capacity.

So now you see what's been happening since WoD and with legion where hybrids lose all the utility that made them desirable over a pure DPS spec, and that fantasy about performing similarly to pure DPS classes went up in smoke.

Because all they did was take away from the already limited hybrid toolkit, without adding new skills in.

I mean, look at symbiosis. The one time we had survival cd's, they took it away, said feral and balance would gain two charges of survival instincts, and then balance druids instead ended up with just barkskin they already had, and ferals with a single charge of SI.

Pures can pretty much change specs on the fly with the same gear, hybrids need to not only collect new weapons and trinkets, but for some ridiculous reason capes and rings and amulets as well.

And now they nerfed hybrid healing away and made rogues, warlocks, DK's, warriors and hunters better at healing themselves.

[Deleted]

Yet,it is still unusable, boring and wrong in parts of the game same as on start. You should even name Collapsing star -> Fury of elune what was change to worse lol, and again rendered spell working only in some parts of the game. Yeah Tigers Fury as a talent is very interesting...



In Cata.

Yeah well, I meant during the last expansion obviously. And you just remind the most fun period of playing balance druid , honestly from cataclysm until now, I've only seen it getting worse.

[cujoe]

Because they've been screwing hybrids for a while.

Gave shaman's heroism to mages, so you saw shaman numbers in world clears plummet.

Gave rebirth to DK's and warlocks.

Warlocks and mages maintained their unique raid QoL features like healthstones and food tables, while mages, rogues, and hunters remained unique in their access to raid mechanic ignoring immunities.

They took away feral tanking capabilities and didn't make it any better a DPS spec, just a mediocre one with no offtanking capacity.

So now you see what's been happening since WoD and with legion where hybrids lose all the utility that made them desirable over a pure DPS spec, and that fantasy about performing similarly to pure DPS classes went up in smoke.

Because all they did was take away from the already limited hybrid toolkit, without adding new skills in.

I mean, look at symbiosis. The one time we had survival cd's, they took it away, said feral and balance would gain two charges of survival instincts, and then balance druids instead ended up with just barkskin they already had, and ferals with a single charge of SI.

Pures can pretty much change specs on the fly with the same gear, hybrids need to not only collect new weapons and trinkets, but for some ridiculous reason capes and rings and amulets as well.

And now they nerfed hybrid healing away and made rogues, warlocks, DK's, warriors and hunters better at healing themselves.

You don't know what you are talking about. Warriors and DKs are hybrids, too, and healing for DPS was nerfed accross the board. It's funny how you mention DKs because their self heal is basically non-existent anymore. Moonkins still have solid passive healing with Yseras Gift.

[Kyanion]

You don't know what you are talking about. Warriors and DKs are hybrids, too, and healing for DPS was nerfed accross the board. It's funny how you mention DKs because their self heal is basically non-existent anymore. Moonkins still have solid passive healing with Yseras Gift.

Why would you want to take Ysera's Gift though? The passive healing isn't amazing and to do any of the spells granted from the talent you have to drop out of moonkin to do them.

I'll stick with guardian affinity where I just flat out take less damage and offer emergency tanking which can be quite useful.

[Madus]

Yeah well, I meant during the last expansion obviously. And you just remind the most fun period of playing balance druid , honestly from cataclysm until now, I've only seen it getting worse.

me too.....
Funny how they slowly fucked up mechanically unique aoes (sf/shrooms) into current starfall aka generic vanilla aoe. Recoloured vanilla huricane

[Cyous]

@Lucrece

That wasn't Blizzard screwing hybrids...No, that was 10man raiding.

All the other stuff is because they made some design choices which led to mediocre gameplay (pruning). Though, we're partially to blame, we are hyper-competitive on balance...and they gave us balance.

[Cadaaga]

me too.....
Funny how they slowly fucked up mechanically unique aoes (sf/shrooms) into current starfall aka generic vanilla aoe. Recoloured vanilla huricane

I loved cataclsym mushroom aoe. It was dynamic and IMO very fun. Need to get #bringbacktheshrooms trending so maybe we can get it as a talent over like fury of elune or stellar drift so that we can have some burst aoe and be pretty competitive in Mythic+

[Lucrece]

You don't know what you are talking about. Warriors and DKs are hybrids, too, and healing for DPS was nerfed accross the board. It's funny how you mention DKs because their self heal is basically non-existent anymore. Moonkins still have solid passive healing with Yseras Gift.

Warriors and DK's are not true hybrids in the sense shamans, druids, monks and paladins are.

If arms sucks, you've got fury to fulfill the same role. If frost sucks, you've got unholy. The hybrids with healing specs have no such alternatives.

And DK healing is 7% hp per runic power spent at a minimum, with icebound fortitude which is also stun immunity, on top of AMS and corpse shield or permafrost. DK sustain is far above what a balance druid has; I mained unholy DK in WoD, don't need you lecturing me what I could or could not heal.

[mikoslav]

they should give back tranquility with resto affinity, instead of regrowth and swiftmend.

rejuvenation from resto affinity helps in bgs where you have no healer in your team, so can't complain too much about it. useful.

[Lilija]

They tried "bring the player not the class" in HfC. Instead of having spread classas because of utility or special jobs (burst AOE, mechanics etc.) everybody stacked the class which brings the most dmg. So its more of a FoTM or out kind of situation.

FoTM the same as stacking certain utility makes sense for top guilds only. For the majority of guilds skill > class/utility

[Lucrece]

@Lucrece

That wasn't Blizzard screwing hybrids...No, that was 10man raiding.

All the other stuff is because they made some design choices which led to mediocre gameplay (pruning). Though, we're partially to blame, we are hyper-competitive on balance...and they gave us balance.

Amusing thing is they made those terrible changes for 10 mans and then proceeded to make 10 mans irrelevant past WoD with 20 man mythics, and now with the removal of class buffs.

[Deleted]

Hey guys!
So I was wondering, as soon as we unlock the 2nd legendary slot and we actually have them, what do you think is our best combination for legendaries?
They are up for testing on Beta again at the moment.

For me it looks like the Incarn-Ring + either Helm or the Bracers, though I prefer the Helm.

What do you guys think?

[Frostyfire14]

So it seems they fixed the ability to start a fight with 100 AP. Tried doing it tonight and entering combat reset my AP.

[Deleted]

just tested this on target dummies, didn't empty my AsP, maybe something just in raids though. very much hoping they havn't done that though, else chain pulling is going to become a nightmare and we'll be even worse for mythic+

EDIT: just tested on mannoroth, got one cast off, then my AsP dropped to 20 regardless. essentially means we can start with *35* (if precasting Stellar Flare) but not the full 100 we had before - it appears to be something that is enabled only for raids, maybe dungeons are unaffected