Originally Posted by
FpicEail
When you effectively copy/paste Hazzikostas' weak PR excuses and add no substance, that means you took that stance not because that's what you actually thought about the talent system but because Blizzard took that position and you will accept literally anything they say. This is exactly the same thing all the Blizzard zealots did over flying, and look how that ended up. Literally NO ONE thought the talent flexibility was a bad thing before Hazzikostas shat out that wall of text. I challenge anyone to actually find a post before that date of someone saying "You know what this talent system needs? LESS flexibility!". You only saw it after the post; because you people are easily swayed by Blizzard PR and let them make your opinions for you.
Uhh, no. It's actually nothing like that, because you can't switch talents in combat. You have to choose your talents BEFORE the encounter. Having all of them in your spellbook at once is not the same thing at all.
Holy shit. Newsflash: Some talents are better for AoE and some are better at Single Target, and you might have to use the ST ones on ST fights while you pick AoE talents on AoE fights. Stop the fucking presses. It's almost like the talent system is achieving exactly its intended purpose by encouraging the player to pick the best tool for the job. Oh the humanity! Think of the children! Better impose an enormous gold cost on that unacceptable behaviour.
And not only that: several talent tiers are utility too. If Blizzard actually deigned to keep the talents balanced like most of them were in MoP, you would actually not have cookie cutter choices (a terrible vestigial remnant of talent trees that they have now wholesale endorsed) and you would see interesting talent choices depending on the fight. Even in late 6.2, the absolute rock bottom of class, spec, and talent balance, you STILL had tiers like the AoE damage tier for Hunters which had 3 viable talents (i.e. Glaive Toss for PvP, Powershot for single target, Barrage for AoE). You even had utility tiers like the disengage tier for hunters where all 3 were useful given situations. Once again, this is exactly the strength of the 5.0 talent system. And that's what they are trying to throw away, because scribes have got to have SOME reason to exist now that glyphs are removed (another terrible design decision which serves to take even more choice away from the player: a reoccurring theme for post-WoD WoW).
Yes, I remember the complaints daily about how ridiculous all this fucking player choice was in MoP and WoD. Oh wait, there were literally 0 complaints about this "issue" because Blizzard pulled it out of their ass because they were mad about players complaining about the almost-equally-stupid respec cost. Once again, I challenge anyone to find any posts saying that all this FLEXIBILITY and CHOICE was bad for the game. What a laughable concept! I would almost not believe someone were actually trying to make this argument with a straight face, but then I remembered how desperately you need to defend Blizzard and it all makes sense.
Talent choices were too flexible. My fucking god. You heard it here first. (Which is actually kind of true, since no one was ever making this argument).
"Better start literally copy-pasting what I wrote previously otherwise my post would be so short it might look like my arguments don't have any substance".
If you copy-paste your arguments, I will copy-paste my responses. Here it is again:
Yes, I remember the complaints daily about how ridiculous all this fucking player choice was in MoP and WoD. Oh wait, there were literally 0 complaints about this "issue" because Blizzard pulled it out of their ass because they were mad about players complaining about the almost-equally-stupid respec cost. Once again, I challenge anyone to find any posts saying that all this FLEXIBILITY and CHOICE was bad for the game. What a laughable concept! I would almost not believe someone were actually trying to make this argument with a straight face, but then I remembered how desperately you need to defend Blizzard and it all makes sense.
You didn't mind until Blizzard told you to.
The Costa Concordia capsizing killed 45 people. The Titanic sinking killed 1500 people. I'm sure they are EXACTLY the same thing and equally as bad, though, since they are both shipping disasters and, as we all know, the only thing that ever matters is category while extent is entirely irrelevant.
Before it cost 0.8 gold to change each talent, now it costs much more. OP saw tomes costing 11g. On my server I saw them costing 34g (right now they are 24g each(. Those numbers are many, many times the original. That makes it different.
You know this well, but you are stalling the argument on purpose.
Oh, and if it were literally the same thing as before, then NONE of your previous points are valid. You can't simultaneously argue that they have restricted talent switching and they haven't restricted talent switching.
They cost 0.8 gold in 6.2. At most you would have to change every talent tier at once, so 7 tomes. 7 x 0.8 = 5.6 gold to change EVERY TIER.
These new tomes at their cheapest hover around 10 gold, and you can switch all your talents within the minute. Any less and the material cost starts cutting into profits. So even at the very worst, the 6.2 talent switching cost is far lower than the 7.0 talent switching cost.
Math is hard.
The vendor price of the legion tome is 6.25 gold. That is the BARE MINIMUM. That is ALREADY beyond the WORST CASE cost for 6.2 talent switching
"The price of talent switching has been doubled in the very best case, and has been multiplied several times in the average case. How can people possibly be upset??????"
Too bad there is no crayon font to make this more understandable for you.
Talent trees were set-and-forget. You simply picked the best cookie-cutter build and never changed it unless you were changing roles, in which case you just pick the best cookie-cutter build for that role. There was 0 versatility or flexibility. The ONLY benefit to talent trees was that it gave you a small bonus at each level, so it felt like you were gaining something. The benefit of talent tiers was way more tangible than that.
It's still 13.75 times the original cost.
I don't give a fuck how manageable the gold cost each. It's a large extra penalty on talent switching that shouldn't exist. It defeats the entire purpose of this talent system.
I'm sure players will also manage just fine if they remove every profession from the game, or make all mounts run 10% slower, or make you run out of breath in 20 seconds rather than 180 seconds. None of those changes are game-ruining and we would manage just fine with them. They are all, however, pointless and obnoxious, just like this new talent thing.
Maybe you should spend less time saying that the change is fine because you can live with it and more time defending the actual merit of the change (e.g. "why is it a good thing"). Then you could at least pretend that you don't worship the ground Hazzikostas walks on.
I don't understand why you guys think this is an argument. Yes, there were talents that were better for certain situations. GOOD!. That is EXACTLY what they should be. The talent system is there to reward knowledgeable players who are careful with their talent choices. It is not some cosmetic identity thing like transmogrification: you are talking about actual in-game bonuses and better results when picking certain builds. The entire purpose of the 5.0 talent system is to offer you a set of tools and allow you to pick the best one for the job.