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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    If we were created this means that there are aliens by definition of alien.
    This. If God does exist, he is an alien, and you've only really given one option in your question.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ji-tae View Post
    both possible. it is also possible that we live in a matrix.

    the chance that aliens exist is pretty damn high though.

    because we basically know nothing at all.
    But that also means the chance for a powerful system to exist, one that is omnipotent, omniscient, and even sentient in a manner that can meet our definition, exists is pretty damn high too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    This. If God does exist, he is an alien, and you've only really given one option in your question.
    Not necessarily. The system might not be labeled as an alien, especially if its matrix is coded in our entire reality, through every atom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That doesn't take away from the value of the argument that it makes. Which is - There is a very very very high chance there is life, and intelligent life beyond the confines of our solar system.
    That chance is as easy to bring back to 50-50 though.

    Because in all honesty, if a powerful deity existed, it probably wouldn't waste it's time outside of its chosen single creation, earth. If it even did, it might cordon it off from other universes, which means finding something else in THIS universe would be impossible.

    The idea that there's a deity that created us, like a divine function that isn't an alien, actually reinforces the fact that aliens won't exist. This machine is not only unlikely to turn its attention away from what it has made in the first place, but also MORE likely to exterminate random generations (Aliens on a rock somewhere else, for example) with extreme prejudice, at its leisure, before or after they were anything that would meet our definition of alien.

    All that having been said, if you took a deer or dog from our planet and put it on another one, it would qualify. But that's actually even more suggestive that the powerful deity would only be focused on one project, this planet.

    It always comes out 50-50.
    Last edited by Thoughtful Trolli; 2016-08-08 at 10:51 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrxz View Post
    Just sick that everyone can come up with random thoughts and try to push them out and play with people's mind.
    I can come up with random thing too, we weren't created but we are ancestors of a plants that grew up from the ground. You can't say it's not true, but I can't confirm it either. Same shit.
    The issue is that the Drake Equation itself doesn't at all claim that there is life out there 100%. Nor does it claim that there are intelligent life out there. Nor does the result of the equation a "fact".

    The terms of the equation itself are conjectural, which means there is a massive margin of error in the equation, which in turn means that whatever your result is, it is horribly off. That doesn't take away from the value of the argument that it makes. Which is - There is a very very very high chance there is life, and intelligent life beyond the confines of our solar system.

  4. #24
    These two are not mutually exclusive.

    God created us in His image, all of us bear a faint spark and lesser version of the attributes of the most High, we're like uncut diamonds. We all love creating, we all love life, we reason (with low probability of success) and seek for Truth. Indeed it was the holy Love which was the driving force behind God's will and purpose to create.. We've simply forgotten our Father, and settled for crawling out of primordial mud.

    He created us, His children, among many, countless, other beings in this universe and countless more heavenly realms beyond.

    While we don't have the knowledge how to create creatures such as the aliens that have been hiding all but in plain sight, neither did God create or intend for these creatures to exist.. the aliens that abduct and abuse people, are -literally- the craftsmanship and spawns of pure evil..

    We'll get to see them soon enough.. then, Lord willing we're gonna whip their slimy gray asses right back to hell where they belong and where their masters are stuck as well. Or, if we can't protect ourselves, Jesus will have to make a second visit and kick their demonic asses for us.

    Life is stranger than fiction.
    Last edited by Calamari; 2016-08-08 at 10:47 AM.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
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  5. #25
    Scarab Lord Master Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrxz View Post
    Just sick that everyone can come up with random thoughts and try to push them out and play with people's mind.
    I can come up with random thing too, we weren't created but we are ancestors of a plants that grew up from the ground. You can't say it's not true, but I can't confirm it either. Same shit.
    I don't think you know what "confirmed" means. Aliens existing is NOT "confirmed", rofl. It's..a thought. A theory. A good one, yes, but it's not "confirmed". You're just an idiot.

    Infracted - Flaming
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2016-08-08 at 07:19 PM.

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  6. #26
    To avoid this getting off topic i have never invoked the word "god", i said creator.

  7. #27
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    I believe that Jesus was an alien. How else could he turn water into wine or cure the blind? We can't even do that now, 2000+ years later.

    He used advanced alien technologies, thats how.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    I didn't load anything, taking Occam's razor into account i asked what people thought was more likely.
    You did.

    The question is designed to indicate there is "Divine Creator" without clearly stating it (forum rules), but the statistical probability of that is near zilch. Then you add in aliens, where the statistical probability is quite high, but the probability of them "being here" is again near zilch.

    The question is one commonly posed by creationists, who cherry pick the scientific improbability of alien visitations in an attempt to ridicule those who "Believe in Aliens but not in God" while ignoring that belief in alien life doesn't equal belief in alien visitations.

    Carl Sagan debunked this nonsense decades ago.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    I didn't load anything, taking Occam's razor into account i asked what people thought was more likely.
    It's loaded because you excluded the possibility for both to be true.

  10. #30
    my guess is it's tardigrade-like creatures if we ever see a real life form that aint a bacteria.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    These two are not mutually exclusive.

    God created us in His image, all of us bear a faint spark and lesser version of the attributes of the most High, we're like uncut diamonds. We all love creating, we all love life, we reason (with low probability of success) and seek for Truth. Indeed it was the holy Love which was the driving force behind God's will and purpose to create.. We've simply forgotten our Father, and settled for crawling out of primordial mud.

    He created us, His children, among many, countless, other beings in this universe and countless more heavenly realms beyond.

    While we don't have the knowledge how to create creatures such as the aliens that have been hiding all but in plain sight, neither did God create or intend for these creatures to exist.. the aliens that abduct and abuse people, are -literally- the craftsmanship and spawns of pure evil..

    We'll get to see them soon enough.. then, Lord willing we're gonna whip their slimy gray asses right back to hell where they belong and where their masters are stuck as well. Or, if we can't protect ourselves, Jesus will have to make a second visit and kick their demonic asses for us.

    Life is stranger than fiction.
    now THIS is bait.

  11. #31
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    Aliens almost certainly exist, at least as single-cell organisms on some far off moon covered in water.

    Simulation theory also suggests that it's fairly likely that the entire universe is just a simulation, and thus created, but it's not anywhere close to a certainty.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    You did.

    The question is designed to indicate there is "Divine Creator" without clearly stating it (forum rules), but the statistical probability of that is near zilch. Then you add in aliens, where the statistical probability is quite high, but the probability of them "being here" is again near zilch.

    The question is one commonly posed by creationists, who cherry pick the scientific improbability of alien visitations in an attempt to ridicule those who "Believe in Aliens but not in God" while ignoring that belief in alien life doesn't equal belief in alien visitations.

    Carl Sagan debunked this nonsense decades ago.
    My bad. I totally thought he was trying to say aliens exist, but with your help I see he was suggesting something else.

    In that case, they already found alien life forms, carbon cells and such that weren't from earth, on an asteroid, or comet, or water on mars and all that. On top of that, who/what we define as an alien is so malleable, that combined with the fact we're living next to thousands of animals, let alone PLANTS WHO ALSO QUALIFY AS ALIENS IF THEY WERE NOT FROM EARTH, is so strongly suggestive of aliens existing in our universe that to ignore the massive plausibility is not only a bad choice, but almost unanimously deemed a forgivable choice, perhaps even by the said creator, who upon choosing to not forgive us for that choice, would ironically make itself an alien to us by ending its relationship with us and thus prove us right. Can't really lose, other than the being tortured in hell for eternity thing.

    Aliens exist somewhere else, even if its in another universe, with whatevermajook separating universes. To believe otherwise just isn't feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Aliens almost certainly exist, at least as single-cell organisms on some far off moon covered in water.

    Simulation theory also suggests that it's fairly likely that the entire universe is just a simulation, and thus created, but it's not anywhere close to a certainty.
    Simulation theory doesn't suggest it. It would prove it because if this IS a simulation, it's only catered to our definitions and we chose our answer.

    I suppose you could imagine we'd "leave" the simulation, then look back on our universal map and see no aliens, but at that point, we'd again be in a universe where we didn't know everything while we're looking back, and the chances would quickly soar back up to 99.99% infinitely repeating percentage that aliens exist.

    We could even call ourselves the aliens at that point of removal from this universe. We wouldn't be wrong if we chose it.
    Last edited by Thoughtful Trolli; 2016-08-08 at 11:01 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    You did.

    The question is designed to indicate there is "Divine Creator" without clearly stating it (forum rules), but the statistical probability of that is near zilch. Then you add in aliens, where the statistical probability is quite high, but the probability of them "being here" is again near zilch.

    The question is one commonly posed by creationists, who cherry pick the scientific improbability of alien visitations in an attempt to ridicule those who "Believe in Aliens but not in God" while ignoring that belief in alien life doesn't equal belief in alien visitations.

    Carl Sagan debunked this nonsense decades ago.
    Not at all, i have no horse in this race i truly am curious as to what people think is more likely.

  14. #34
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Trolli View Post
    My bad. I totally thought he was trying to say aliens exist, but with your help I see he was suggesting something else.

    In that case, they already found alien life forms, carbon cells and such that weren't from earth, on an asteroid, or comet, or water on mars and all that. On top of that, who/what we define as an alien is so malleable, that combined with the fact we're living next to thousands of animals, let alone PLANTS WHO ALSO QUALIFY AS ALIENS IF THE WERE NOT FROM EARTH, is so strongly suggestive of aliens existing in our universe that to ignore the massive plausibility is not only a bad choice, but almost unanimously deemed a forgivable choice, perhaps even by the said creator, who upon choosing to not forgive us for that choice, would ironically make itself an alien to us by ending its relationship with us and thus prove us right. Can't really lose, other than the being tortured in hell for eternity thing.

    Aliens exist somewhere else, even if its in another universe, with whatevermajook separating universes. To believe otherwise just isn't feasible.
    No life forms have been found that were not from Earth.

  15. #35
    In before 'intelligent design'.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    sip

    Life is stranger than fiction.
    http://i.imgur.com/MduSFOO.jpg Wow....just wow. I literally had to call the Inquisition and the Adeptus Astartes for this... next step Exterminatus.

  17. #37
    Clearly bait, but I'll wade in.

    Albeit I'm not a religious person, why is it that both aren't an option? I don't believe in any religion, but what's to say that a God didn't create us, as well as Aliens?

    Personally though, I think it's rather stupid to believe that we're alone in the Universe. I think it's also pretty stupid to believe that any religion has the answers to our creation. There have been thousands of religions, millions of Gods and billions of different interpretations and beliefs. No idea why suddenly now, we've got it right ...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    No life forms have been found that were not from Earth.
    I read an article about it. I'm not going to care if it can be found or not; This is just an internet argument.

    The point is to get all angry and have fun and stuff. The real question is which side do you place your bets on, and I've got a chip everywhere. I also stack chips to profit when its obvious, and I can print my own chips.

    I'm pretty good at this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    In before 'intelligent design'.
    I really wish that phrase wasn't so poisonous. The idea that a creature's evolutionary path is at least .0001% affected by its own thoughts would best be described by that phrase. And I'm disappointed in anyone who wouldn't agree with that because you change your serotonin levels with your own thoughts and it would be silly for anyone to say that doesn't have an effect over time.

    But have real scientists ever discussed these things? The implications are ridiculous! At this point, it makes so much more sense to understand that Darwin's Hummingbird didn't evolve by forcefully face-timing a flower until it reached nectar, but rather evolved from detecting scent of nectar and wanting it so very badly that generations of yearning made the mates seek the goals in each other along with subtle chemical changes by their own bodily hormones over said hours, days, years, generations, finally manifesting in the lengthening of the nectar collection device.

    This would be the real truth in intelligent design: That our thoughts actually influence our evolution, albeit in minor ways in most cases. At this point, any evolved behaviors support the thesis. But does anybody care? Nobody thinks so. An ironic twist, where thinking was key, nobody thinks so.
    Last edited by Thoughtful Trolli; 2016-08-08 at 11:11 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    I didn't load anything, taking Occam's razor into account i asked what people thought was more likely.
    The question makes no sense since ocams razor is a comparison of competing theories by which the one with fewer assumptions is the preferred theory. Your question is apples and oranges instead of red apples and green apples.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  20. #40
    I think it is more likely that aliens exist, there is no proof that neither god nor aliens exist or doesn't exist therefore one can't be 100% certain.

    But the idea of an eternal, omniscient and omnipotent being creating the earth and everything on it seems more outlandish to me than the thought of extraterrestrial life.

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