Unholy DK Alpha Testers, Please Read! (Unholy Legion Discussion)

[Deleted]

Double checking again, does anyone have logs for a UHDK that are more recent?

They're not exactly hard to find. Here's a random one from two days ago:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Nice to see I got an infraction for stating the truth by the way.

[Maxweii]

You got it for how you said it not the fact that you said it, if you can't see that then /shrug

[Deleted]

You got it for how you said it not the fact that you said it, if you can't see that then /shrug

It's not like I give a shit. For every two thousand idiots that read these boards there's only one actual raider reading them. It's just good to vent at idiots who can't see the forest for the trees (re: Unholy).

INFRACTION

[Saracens]

So is All Will Serve just dead now? Did they nerf him out of usefulness?

[Hashcrypt]

How well would Unholy do with a MW Monk partner in 2s?

[Saracens]

How well would Unholy do with a MW Monk partner in 2s?

I haven't done much arena on the beta, but DK + any healer is always a pretty safe bet.

[Deleted]

So is All Will Serve just dead now? Did they nerf him out of usefulness?

It has its uses - the top 3 are all situational and good in their own right.

I.E - Bursting Sores is good for predictable AoE that lines up well with DnD's CD. It's also good for burst/short-lived AOE (namely dungeons) where the wound explosion will outweigh a few ticks of VP. Ebon Fever is good for consistent AOE + Cleave(?) when the targets are close to each other. All Will Serve is good if you want to faceroll/are new to the class or for certain niche bosses with spread AoE that makes DnD/Epi/Bursting/Ebon unreliable/unviable.

[Saracens]

It has its uses - the top 3 are all situational and good in their own right.

I.E - Bursting Sores is good for predictable AoE that lines up well with DnD's CD. It's also good for burst/short-lived AOE (namely dungeons) where the wound explosion will outweigh a few ticks of VP. Ebon Fever is good for consistent AOE + Cleave(?) when the targets are close to each other. All Will Serve is good if you want to faceroll/are new to the class or for certain niche bosses with spread AoE that makes DnD/Epi/Bursting/Ebon unreliable/unviable.

In beta, I haven't come across a single instance where I didn't just want EF/BS. I mean one is geared towards ST and the other immeasurably helpful for AoE. And he just sits there shooting a bow once in awhile. Since his huge damage nerf, I feel like our archer buddy is gonna be riding the pine for a while.

[Raikh]

In beta, I haven't come across a single instance where I didn't just want EF/BS. I mean one is geared towards ST and the other immeasurably helpful for AoE. And he just sits there shooting a bow once in awhile. Since his huge damage nerf, I feel like our archer buddy is gonna be riding the pine for a while.

Atleast currently on pre-patch AWS is atleast for ST a bit betetr than both EF and BS on papaer and on dummy tests. They also recently changed how the skulker AoE's removing arrow spray and makignthe skulker hsot AoE, fixing some of the ai problems concenring cleave and AoE. Since its a pet it can still die or the AI can fail, so its probably not really ahead but it should be for sure atleast competitive.
Skulker will probably fall behind once you get to use talent niches, BS for instance can create crazy AoE burst with infected claws and castigator with DnD and for such situations ot should be for sure unbeatable but outside of that niche it should look good, not go to but a solid choice.

I really would like to test AWS in HFC mythic more, but sadly my guild isn't interested in clearing it and we are only doing split manno/archi runs leading not only to a low sample size but also to pretty wonky and slow kills.

[Deleted]

In beta, I haven't come across a single instance where I didn't just want EF/BS. I mean one is geared towards ST and the other immeasurably helpful for AoE. And he just sits there shooting a bow once in awhile. Since his huge damage nerf, I feel like our archer buddy is gonna be riding the pine for a while.

There will be one or two fights where you'll want to take AWS, but as you've side - it's not going to be often because he's weak outside of being able to use his arrow spray on enough targets. General feeling is that we'll be using him for potentially Xavius due to a large amount of spread adds. Wounds won't affect more than 2 at a time and Plague won't spread.

It isn't viable to spam outbreak to spread Plague, especially when you take EF (because it'll likely run out before you have a decent amount plagued and then waiting on runes).

As I've said, the only time we'll want to be taking him is for consistent adds that are really spread out so Plague won't spread and wounds won't explode on others.

Atleast currently on pre-patch AWS is atleast for ST a bit betetr than both EF and BS on papaer and on dummy tests.

1) You got a source on that? To me that just sounds like you're not playing the class properly. Likely not using wounds properly, allowing wounds and plague to fall off, spamming away runes etc.

2) We're talking beta, pre-patch is completely irrelevant because class strength and talent choices aren't always indicative of 110 play.

[Saracens]

There will be one or two fights where you'll want to take AWS, but as you've side - it's not going to be often because he's weak outside of being able to use his arrow spray on enough targets. General feeling is that we'll be using him for potentially Xavius due to a large amount of spread adds. Wounds won't affect more than 2 at a time and Plague won't spread.

It isn't viable to spam outbreak to spread Plague, especially when you take EF (because it'll likely run out before you have a decent amount plagued and then waiting on runes).

As I've said, the only time we'll want to be taking him is for consistent adds that are really spread out so Plague won't spread and wounds won't explode on others.



1) You got a source on that? To me that just sounds like you're not playing the class properly. Likely not using wounds properly, allowing wounds and plague to fall off, spamming away runes etc.

2) We're talking beta, pre-patch is completely irrelevant because class strength and talent choices aren't always indicative of 110 play.

Understood, and yea @Raikh I don't think anyone is referring to pre-patch, as it's almost completely irrelevant. The world changes entirely from 100 - 101.

[Raikh]

1) You got a source on that? To me that just sounds like you're not playing the class properly. Likely not using wounds properly, allowing wounds and plague to fall off, spamming away runes etc.

2) We're talking beta, pre-patch is completely irrelevant because class strength and talent choices aren't always indicative of 110 play.

Pre-patch is irrelevant for balance concerns due to legendary ring and current tiersets but for this row of talents specifically the differences shouldn't be too big. Scalign doesn't really tear at the damage proprotions and if at all EF and BS suffer more because AWS doesn't scale with mastery, so losing more secondary stats impacts it a little less. Otherwise for EF we only have plaguebearer as an artifact trait and for BS or wound sin general we have icnreased consumption via apocalpyse, t19 4set and possibly the legendary barcers. I don't know how impactful those are for the wounds but considering that EF is still an option on beta it can't be too dramatic since they are about tied for ST right now, according to the last sims i did.

Sources would be sims, which are easily reproducable, using ST patchwerk EF and BS were like ~500dps within each other , while AWS was 2-3k ahead of them. (~100k dps overall) While I've heard that AWS isn't working perfectly in simcraft atm, it fit my onw testing on dummies so even if simcraft should be overestimating AWS a bit there is still quite a bit of a gap to fill.

I logged a few of those dummy tests for comparison and while the sample size is not even close to proving anything, it comes solidly close to the sims, os that it should be worth looking into.
(note, testing done on the boss dummy in acherus, seemingly i didnt position myself properly allowing Thorasus to hit other dummies which were excluded from the damage done, skewing the damage a bit towards abilities, so AWS is closer to 6,5% damage done in the log than the 7,2% shown)
AWS: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=1
BS: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=3

Aside from the sudden doom rng impacting DA output quite a bit, I could reproduce those numbers quite a few times and if wished for I can either do a number of additonal testruns or look up some other tests I did around 2 weeks ago.

[Maxweii]

I mean most fights aren't patchwork and while there has been a lot of work on improving ai for the skulker if he moves even a slight bit it generally rocks his dps a lot.
It's fine to know for patchwork, but you less you manually move him a few times mid combat he's not being accurately represented.

[Hashcrypt]

What's the most up to date first 13 artifact path for Unholy?

[Deleted]

What's the most up to date first 13 artifact path for Unholy?

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...EJAxCgNF8DU1AQ

Putting 1 point in Runic Tattoes can also be beneficial (especially if you play with Dark Arbiter).

[Hashcrypt]

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...EJAxCgNF8DU1AQ

Putting 1 point in Runic Tattoes can also be beneficial (especially if you play with Dark Arbiter).

Thanks! I'm assuming Runic tattoos would be the next 3? And I'm so torn on which golden dragon to go after Scourge of Worlds..

[Deleted]

Thanks! I'm assuming Runic tattoos would be the next 3? And I'm so torn on which golden dragon to go after Scourge of Worlds..

Go Shambler, then Double Doom.

The 1 point is just to be able to store 3 Death Coils, which are great if you are using Dark Arbiter. If you even want 1 point in it early, I do not know (1 point could have some QoL).

You will most likely fill Runic Tattoes out after Double Doom, though.

[Hashcrypt]

Go Shambler, then Double Doom.

The 1 point is just to be able to store 3 Death Coils, which are great if you are using Dark Arbiter. If you even want 1 point in it early, I do not know (1 point could have some QoL).

You will most likely fill Runic Tattoes out after Double Doom, though.

Good plan...thanks again!

[Rothulean1]

What's the most up to date first 13 artifact path for Unholy?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.vtnvq4f0simf

[Gemini Soul]

With the nerf to CS and this new hotfix "Sudden Doom’s chance to activate is now increased by melee attack speed (was Haste)." should make Unholy Frenzy the default choice now especially when paired with DA.