[Legion] Terryn's guide to Affliction Warlock

[Deleted]

I haven't a clue how often the little scorpids spawn and, in the end, you have to wage padding the meter with PS vs dealing more damage to the boss. Which one ends up being more useful depends on the group you're in.

You are right, I was tunnelvisioning on doing most padding dps, and not efficient dps on the boss

[BannedForViews]

a few weeks ago it was 50% more..have they changed it again then

If you check your warlock with actual numbers, my Drain life on live does 43k and Drain soul does 53k. They are % based so it should hold pretty statically at 110. The database says DL does 180% and DS 264% so I see why you said that, but Secrets of the Necrolyte empowers DL to do 200% more damage so i'm sure it's some funky blizz math in their that brings them a lot closer together. My demo DL does 14,411, Affl 43,234. 43,234 / 14,411 = 3.000069, or 200%.

[Deleted]

Not sure what's causing it, but with my equipment the difference between DL and DS is 24,45%... without equipment it's 36%+ and increases depending on how much I take off.

If it's %spellpower based, shouldn't the difference remain the same?
I always expected Secrets of the Necrolyte to work for both DS AND DL

[wooters]

well ds doesn`t replace dl...does it? you have both if you spec into it?

[Kirroth]

well ds doesn`t replace dl...does it? you have both if you spec into it?

Yes it does, just like Demonbolt replaces Shadow Bolt for Demo.

[CuchuCachu]

You are right, I was tunnelvisioning on doing most padding dps, and not efficient dps on the boss

This is what made me like Soul Effigy, makes padding do efficient boss damage

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Yes it does, just like Demonbolt replaces Shadow Bolt for Demo.

report to Blizz?

[wooters]

Yes it does, just like Demonbolt replaces Shadow Bolt for Demo.

then secrets of the necrolyte should imo be active for ds

[Kirroth]

then secrets of the necrolyte should imo be active for ds

....say wha? That's already baked in, Drain Soul's damage is already based on Drain Life's. That passive is to differentiate it from the Drain Life that Demo and Destro get.

Look, Drain Soul is basically Improved Drain Life. It does roughly 25% more damage, 20% less healing, and procs a Soul Shard on kill. Those numbers represent the value of a level 15 tier talent pick. What else are you expecting out of it?

[Deleted]

....say wha? That's already baked in, Drain Soul's damage is already based on Drain Life's. That passive is to differentiate it from the Drain Life that Demo and Destro get.

Look, Drain Soul is basically Improved Drain Life. It does roughly 25% more damage, 20% less healing, and procs a Soul Shard on kill. Those numbers represent the value of a level 15 tier talent pick. What else are you expecting out of it?

Do they? 180% vs 264(?)% spellpower should result in a ~45% difference, shouldn't it? It heals for less than DL too.

[Deleted]

Do they? 180% vs 264(?)% spellpower should result in a ~45% difference, shouldn't it? It heals for less than DL too.

It should heal for the same as DL, just that the % of damage healed is lower as the damage of DS > DL.

[Deleted]

well ya, it's only a bit, but I wonder why it's only a 25% and not a 45% damage difference... and why the difference gets higher with less spellpower. I didn't look at it for more than a few minutes but I start to assume it's a flat 10k++ difference between the 2 skills.

It was at 44k vs 56k or something with Ilvl 700 pvp gear and around 23k vs 34k when I unequipped half my stuff.

yet wowhead and other sites list the skill with 180% spellpower over 6s (DL) and something around 264% over 6s (DS) as far as I remember. Which should result in a ~45% difference in damage in every single scenario, or am I missing something?

[wooters]

....say wha? That's already baked in, Drain Soul's damage is already based on Drain Life's. That passive is to differentiate it from the Drain Life that Demo and Destro get.

Look, Drain Soul is basically Improved Drain Life. It does roughly 25% more damage, 20% less healing, and procs a Soul Shard on kill. Those numbers represent the value of a level 15 tier talent pick. What else are you expecting out of it?

one can`t really state its baked in when the numbers don`t reflect this. it should do more damage then a 25% increase over dl. drain dmg for us are joke now anyway..so we are bound to see some change there(I hope)

its a bit funny though..you say 25% represent the value of a lvl 15 pick. just to the left of that talent is writhe in agony..one of the most potent talents in the game

[Deleted]

First of all, thx for the guide, Terryn.

I've been wondering for weeks about what spec to choose. I think you convinced me.

Now, I have a few questions about what you said here :
- Does UA spam damage stacks on a linear basis ? If I cast 4 UA, I get a final DoT equal to 4time my single UA damage ? (well, minus the damages already gone on the first casts while I'm casting the other ones, ofc)

- No matter the scaling, is it worth it ?

- On pure ST fights, I seem to find myself with more shard generation than spending. Isn't it worth to cast some UA on the Effigy ? (if Contagion is taken, that should also up the damages done to the Effigy by 15%, and so "transfer" more damages to the main target...). If not, the only way to "evacuate" the shards is to double or triple cast some UAs ?

- I'm surprised that Inimatable Agony has few consideration in your guide. At max level, the gap between UA and Agonys is so important that Agony becomes a "cheap" spell ? Or is it just a question of priority (CH + Gold traits so important we can't waste points in Inimitable Agony) ?
On live and a few beta tests of my own, it semmed to me pretty solid and worth invested in.

- I know there are no numbers behind those first lines about legendaries, but you don't consider, at first view, the Stretens Sleepless Shackles as top item for Affliction ?

Thanks again for the guide,
Hope you'll enlighten me even more

[Deleted]

one can`t really state its baked in when the numbers don`t reflect this. it should do more damage then a 25% increase over dl. drain dmg for us are joke now anyway..so we are bound to see some change there(I hope)

its a bit funny though..you say 25% represent the value of a lvl 15 pick. just to the left of that talent is writhe in agony..one of the most potent talents in the game

The real benefit of DS is to take lives and claim shards. If we can't claim shards WiA should be the best talent of that row, especially if you take effigy.

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Now, I have a few questions about what you said here :
- Does UA spam damage stacks on a linear basis ? If I cast 4 UA, I get a final DoT equal to 4time my single UA damage ? (well, minus the damages already gone on the first casts while I'm casting the other ones, ofc)

- No matter the scaling, is it worth it ?

- On pure ST fights, I seem to find myself with more shard generation than spending. Isn't it worth to cast some UA on the Effigy ? (if Contagion is taken, that should also up the damages done to the Effigy by 15%, and so "transfer" more damages to the main target...). If not, the only way to "evacuate" the shards is to double or triple cast some UAs ?

Effigy deals 35% damage to the boss, would you rather deal 100% of your UA or 35%? Use all shards on the boss.
If you take Contagion, you want to spread the UA's to maximise uptime, but you should never ever cap on shards.

[Scathbais]

First of all, thx for the guide, Terryn.


- Does UA spam damage stacks on a linear basis ? If I cast 4 UA, I get a final DoT equal to 4time my single UA damage ? (well, minus the damages already gone on the first casts while I'm casting the other ones, ofc)

- No matter the scaling, is it worth it ?

Effigy deals 35% damage to the boss, would you rather deal 100% of your UA or 35%? Use all shards on the boss.
If you take Contagion, you want to spread the UA's to maximise uptime, but you should never ever cap on shards.

I think in this part of his question (and I have the same question) is how exactly UA stacking works and what is the best method to maximize damage when dumping shard into UA (correct me if I'm wrong PhoenixLite)

Edit: I should clarify that others have posted some damage shenanigans when chaining UAs around the time of UAs first dot tick. Not sure if the "correct" was is to just straightforward spam UAs or is there something more subtle?

[Kirroth]

I think in this part of his question (and I have the same question) is how exactly UA stacking works and what is the best method to maximize damage when dumping shard into UA (correct me if I'm wrong PhoenixLite)

Edit: I should clarify that others have posted some damage shenanigans when chaining UAs around the time of UAs first dot tick. Not sure if the "correct" was is to just straightforward spam UAs or is there something more subtle?

Semi-exploits aside, treat UA like you would any other secondary resource consuming nuke. The delayed damage effect of the DoT doesn't change any of the rules because UA snapshots damage on cast instead of the DoT dynamically updating.

Always try to case UA while under the effects of a cooldown or stat proc. Since stat procs are much rarer in Legion and both Mana Tap and Soul Harvest are pretty niche talents this mostly boils down to "Try to always cast UA while buffed by Reap Souls. If there are lots of targets giving you high Reap Souls uptime, cast them whenever you have space in your rotation. If your Reap Souls uptime is lower, pool then dump is the correct Soul Shard use method. Just don't let yourself cap."

[CuchuCachu]

Question regarding the multi-target adds advice:

"If any targets will be alive for greater than 30 seconds and you have Absolute Corruption, hit them with corruption if they will not be hit by seed of corruption. This will give bonus Compounding Horror stacks."

What if AC is not taken? Is Corruption a waste of GCDs then?

Also, a suggestion for Terryn.

The Adds and Multi-Target sections may be easier to interpret if you make two sections regarding stacked and non-stacked adds since the strategy is pretty different, especially in the multi-target section

Dont want this suggestion forgotten

Still a little confused about non-stacked adds. Should one just always try to have Agony and Corruption up on the adds for CH stacks? Or are there times when it isnt worth the GCD and better to just dump a UA or two into them?

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I have a question.

If I have a proc, and I cast an Unstable Affliction it will snapshot the benefits of the proc right?

What if I cast an unprocced UA after that? Did I just waste my buffed UA?

[Kirroth]

Still a little confused about non-stacked adds. Should one just always try to have Agony and Corruption up for CH stacks? Or are there times when it isnt worth the GCD and better to just dump a UA or two into them?

Agony's slow stacking, especially with WiG, means a target has to live quite a long time before it really pays off. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where the breakpoint is for how long a target should live for Agony to be worth while. Complicating this is that even without reaching full stacks, those extra Agonies will be proccing more SS and CH for you. How much of those do you need to offset the lost boss uptime?

A good example of the non-stacked low-priority add is Beastlord Darmac's spears from BRF. Those are exactly what you want to throw a single perma-Corruption on and forget about. Compare that to the siege engines in Blackhand phase 2. Those siege engines aren't stacked, but they have a clear time limit they need to die before, which makes them enough of a priority you want to give them more attention.

I think there are going to be general rules that often have to be broken down by specific boss.

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If I have a proc, and I cast an Unstable Affliction it will snapshot the benefits of the proc right?

What if I cast an unprocced UA after that? Did I just waste my buffed UA?

As best I understand it, UA will snapshot the damage amount. So if you have an Int or Mastery or Vers proc that will be calculated into the damage. When you cast another UA it adds the remaining damage from the previous one, which was already fixed in place, so the buff having expired won't matter. Basically they tried to make very sure that there's no hidden penalty for casting UA at the wrong time.

Now, one question that occurs to me is what about Crit procs? UA still crits on a per-tick basis. Does that mean the crit chance is snapshotted when UA is cast, or does that mean it checks you crit chance every tick? I sort of suspect the latter, which means if you have a Crit proc trinket (if such a trinket even exists) you want your UA to tick during the proc and not keep chain casting it so most of the damage happens after the proc expires. But that's very much an edge case, and why things like Crit proc trinkets are rare if not completely gone.

[CuchuCachu]

Agony's slow stacking, especially with WiG, means a target has to live quite a long time before it really pays off. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where the breakpoint is for how long a target should live for Agony to be worth while. Complicating this is that even without reaching full stacks, those extra Agonies will be proccing more SS and CH for you. How much of those do you need to offset the lost boss uptime?

A good example of the non-stacked low-priority add is Beastlord Darmac's spears from BRF. Those are exactly what you want to throw a single perma-Corruption on and forget about. Compare that to the siege engines in Blackhand phase 2. Those siege engines aren't stacked, but they have a clear time limit they need to die before, which makes them enough of a priority you want to give them more attention.

I think there are going to be general rules that often have to be broken down by specific boss.

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As best I understand it, UA will snapshot the damage amount. So if you have an Int or Mastery or Vers proc that will be calculated into the damage. When you cast another UA it adds the remaining damage from the previous one, which was already fixed in place, so the buff having expired won't matter. Basically they tried to make very sure that there's no hidden penalty for casting UA at the wrong time.

Now, one question that occurs to me is what about Crit procs? UA still crits on a per-tick basis. Does that mean the crit chance is snapshotted when UA is cast, or does that mean it checks you crit chance every tick? I sort of suspect the latter, which means if you have a Crit proc trinket (if such a trinket even exists) you want your UA to tick during the proc and not keep chain casting it so most of the damage happens after the proc expires. But that's very much an edge case, and why things like Crit proc trinkets are rare if not completely gone.

Ty

So UA doesnt snapshot haste?

Also, what if you have normal corruption? A lot of the add advice assumes AC

[wooters]

as I understand it...ua is just like a bolt but with dmg spread over a set time. and it always have the same number of ticks during its duration. and if this is true, then it doesn`t check anything during its duration..and only the cast time is affected by haste(duration as well?). many people have said this..but ofc that doesn`t necessarily make it true