Any consensus on what spec will be the spec.

[Koloss]

I take it as we speak about PvE, but i dunno btw. And for that i was keep asking myself this question too. I think simulationcraft numbers won't really matter because both the numbers can be changed throughout the expac and also raids lately barely include Pechwerk fights. So i think the best spec is the one which can perform good in the most scenarios possible.

Affliction +: You maintain much of your single target damage by your dots, you can even refresh many of them while moving. Best on council fights or fights with long living adds.
Affliciton -: While UA can be almost be called a direct damage spell as it has short duration it is best used on the same target more times so i would say it's not the best for burst addkilling (maybe with Haunt). Many of the Artifact traits focuses on killing a target, so while other artifact's traits can work in any case these may not in 1-target fights. Because of slow add-kiling it may not be the best in Mythic dungeons. Not much AoE burst. Decent one-target burst but not anytime you want it.

Demonology +: Also not bad on council fights maybe, because of increased SS regain. Also maintains much of its damage while moving (both DoT and demons), you can also chanell Demonwrath if there's nothing better to do while movement. Probably does the most AoE on long living targets with the proper talents. Probably does the most AoE burst with Implosion but it needs some setting up. OK cleave.
Demonolgy -: Currently pretty poor target swithing capability.

Destruction +: Best cleave. 3 Infernals with Artifact trait? Gets max DPS the fastest so i think it has the best switching capability. Simplicity makes you able to react to any situation fast whether you have Soul Shards ready or not. A good sustained AoE maxed from the first moment. Also very good on 2 target council or big add fights with Havoc.
Destruction -: Not that much thing to do while movement, though it will be a bit better with Artifact ability (which you probably not always time for movement). Damage comes more from direct spells so while you're not casting any you lose the most with this spec (gets better with increased Immolate damage talent). Lack of AoE bursts.

So if we want to decide i think we should check at the next tier's bosses instead of simcraft numbers. I really have no clue this expac what bosses will come (i always did with other ones) so i would give someone a cookie if he would count how many bosses have no/light/heavy movements or number of short living and long living targets or crucial DPS burst moments!

For me the most flexible seems to be Destruction. While i like depth in rotations its simplicity makes it good in any possible scenario. Also probably it will be the best for trash on Mythic dungeons because of how fast it goes to max DPS. The only situation where Destro may not perform the best is heavy movement little number of target fights i think.

[PowerOfTwo]

I take it as we speak about PvE, but i dunno btw. And for that i was keep asking myself this question too. I think simulationcraft numbers won't really matter because both the numbers can be changed throughout the expac and also raids lately barely include Pechwerk fights. So i think the best spec is the one which can perform good in the most scenarios possible.

Affliction +: You maintain much of your single target damage by your dots, you can even refresh many of them while moving. Best on council fights or fights with long living adds.
Affliciton -: While UA can be almost be called a direct damage spell as it has short duration it is best used on the same target more times so i would say it's not the best for burst addkilling (maybe with Haunt). Many of the Artifact traits focuses on killing a target, so while other artifact's traits can work in any case these may not in 1-target fights. Because of slow add-kiling it may not be the best in Mythic dungeons. Not much AoE burst. Decent one-target burst but not anytime you want it.

Demonology +: Also not bad on council fights maybe, because of increased SS regain. Also maintains much of its damage while moving (both DoT and demons), you can also chanell Demonwrath if there's nothing better to do while movement. Probably does the most AoE on long living targets with the proper talents. Probably does the most AoE burst with Implosion but it needs some setting up. OK cleave.
Demonolgy -: Currently pretty poor target swithing capability.


Destruction +: Best cleave. 3 Infernals with Artifact trait? Gets max DPS the fastest so i think it has the best switching capability. Simplicity makes you able to react to any situation fast whether you have Soul Shards ready or not. A good sustained AoE maxed from the first moment. Also very good on 2 target council or big add fights with Havoc.
Destruction -: Not that much thing to do while movement, though it will be a bit better with Artifact ability (which you probably not always time for movement). Damage comes more from direct spells so while you're not casting any you lose the most with this spec (gets better with increased Immolate damage talent). Lack of AoE bursts.

So if we want to decide i think we should check at the next tier's bosses instead of simcraft numbers. I really have no clue this expac what bosses will come (i always did with other ones) so i would give someone a cookie if he would count how many bosses have no/light/heavy movements or number of short living and long living targets or crucial DPS burst moments!

For me the most flexible seems to be Destruction. While i like depth in rotations its simplicity makes it good in any possible scenario. Also probably it will be the best for trash on Mythic dungeons because of how fast it goes to max DPS. The only situation where Destro may not perform the best is heavy movement little number of target fights i think.

Atm all in all the specs are balanced between them (in that they have weaknesses another does not). Problem is looking at the tier, i can see a use for all of them... but no clear winner. Demo is trailing behind atm but just look at Something like Kazzak's final curse.... 5% doom damage per demon, 2 felguards , two dogs, 5 imps and a doomguard (and a partri... nwm) 50% damage boost... add in timing it with a 2nd HoG and it's 75% and then double that via artifact trait... on 3-4 targets, 100% uptime... wth does aff have to compare to that? 12-16% extra damage "sometimes" via Streten's Sleepless Shackles.

Also if someone can do the math on Wilfred's Sigil of Superior Summoning + Sin'dorei Spite, please? i'm VERY curious if you could actualy realisticaly get doomguard down to 1 min CD , so it lines up for every Thal'kiels....

Short version , going 100% of current numbers, Aff for council fights (Dragons and Botanist) Destro for everything else and ignore Demo (tho i THINK i saw parses for Legendaries are due @August 20th, that should be extreemly interesting)

[ShiyoKozuki]

They completely ruined 2/3 of the warlock specs(how did they manage to make affliction WORSE than wod affliction?). I'm not sure if anyone will actually be playing anything but demo, but I don't see why anyone would actually even play warlock with the way destruction and affliction has been handled. They both feel AWFUL to play.

Sucks they ruined a great class so much. Bring back WOTLK/CAT affliction and WOD or MOP destruction please

[App]

They completely ruined 2/3 of the warlock specs(how did they manage to make affliction WORSE than wod affliction?). I'm not sure if anyone will actually be playing anything but demo, but I don't see why anyone would actually even play warlock with the way destruction and affliction has been handled. They both feel AWFUL to play.

Sucks they ruined a great class so much. Bring back WOTLK/CAT affliction and WOD or MOP destruction please

Uh.. Destruction plays very similar to how it plays now. Just go Haste > Crit and you'll be swimming in shards and pumping out great damage.

[Deleted]

Uh.. Destruction plays very similar to how it plays now. Just go Haste > Crit and you'll be swimming in shards and pumping out great damage.

Lots of haste + Soul Conduit + Artifact trait Soulsnatcher + Burning Hunger will give you the potential to have so many shards that you can actualy just use chaos+immolate refresh+conflag rotation.

Effective in numbers yes, but boring as *uck and we are back to mind-numbing rotation.


Also, makes artifact trait dimension ripper + Fire and the Flames + Master of Disaster realy realy realy bad because we hardly ever press incinerate.

What a cluster*uck of spec tbh...

[Orwell7]

I really like the 3 second baseline cast of Chaos Bolt, which can almost hit like an Immolate tick with Roaring Blaze

[Deleted]

Also, makes artifact trait dimension ripper + Fire and the Flames + Master of Disaster realy realy realy bad because we hardly ever press incinerate.

What a cluster*uck of spec tbh...

I wonder why they didnt go for quality over quantity as far as chaos bolt goes. Chaos bolt could have like double the cost (4 shards) and double the dmg, or even a bit more if it had a reasonable cooldown, making a hard hitting nuke for burst (smthing like thalkiel's consumption). And they could just add soulfire to do what the current chaos bolt does. That would even enhance class fantasy imo a bit more, since when you end up spamming chaos bolts it doesnt seem you are doing anything special.
Imo chaos dmg spells should feel special, like thats where you show real power.

[Deleted]

I wonder why they didnt go for quality over quantity as far as chaos bolt goes. Chaos bolt could have like double the cost (4 shards) and double the dmg, or even a bit more if it had a reasonable cooldown, making a hard hitting nuke for burst (smthing like thalkiel's consumption). And they could just add soulfire to do what the current chaos bolt does. That would even enhance class fantasy imo a bit more, since when you end up spamming chaos bolts it doesnt seem you are doing anything special.
Imo chaos dmg spells should feel special, like thats where you show real power.

Last time it was quality over quantity was basically MoP when you had to build up your embers over time to potentially shoot 4 strong hitting Chaos Bolts out. WoD's charred remains really fucked that up, and instead it became quality and quantity at the expense of the rest of the kit. I would not be opposed to a stronger and more expensive chaos bolt personally, but it sucks that you can't pool soul shards like you could with embers and wait for the right moment to go full on HAM.

[Deleted]

...
Demonology +: Also not bad on council fights maybe, because of increased SS regain. Also maintains much of its damage while moving (both DoT and demons), you can also chanell Demonwrath if there's nothing better to do while movement. Probably does the most AoE on long living targets with the proper talents. Probably does the most AoE burst with Implosion but it needs some setting up. OK cleave.
Demonolgy -: Currently pretty poor target swithing capability.
...

I disagree with the mobility. Demo does NOT maintain much of its damage while moving:
- The only dot that ticks on is Doom
- Your main soulshard creator is a cast, so you cannot effectively build those while moving.
- Your pets NEED the demonic empowerment which is again a cast
- After you stopped moving, you then have to build up your army again. So while you maintain some of your dmg during the movement, you will have a lull directly afterwards
- Demonwrath is horrible: It does less damage than Rain of Fire in end-WoD (before pre-patch), so all it does is "hopefully" create some soulshards. Most of the time, especially single target, this doesnt happen at all, or only 1-2. And even if you get a lot of shards, you will still have to stand still to cast HoG again.

Destruction is the most flexible spec that will dominate in the first raid tier. Affliction has very strong artifact traits that possibly make it better than Destro in the 2nd tier.

Demo has a really bad toolkit when it comes to either raiding or mythic dungeons and will probably be over-buffed by Blizzard to hide the fact that the spec itself is completely crap.

[cashzilla]

There's also the fact that each trait point you add to an artifact gives you a flat 0.75% increase so even if min maxing 5-10% dps gain, you may your main artifact might have enough points in it to offset it, unless you're leveling them side by side.

Edit: Huh, actualy looking at the legendarys now that you've reminded me , the DEMO ones seem stupidly good, just nice flat dps increases while the Destro ones are ever so "slightly" rng and the Aff are situational....

Sacrolash's Dark Strike - Corruption slows by 60%... booooo

Power Cord of Lethtendris - Casting UA on a target without UA on it has 25% chance to refund the sould shard.... again Boooo you're either casting these back to back for nuke or aiming for 100% uptime with Contagion. Best case Scenario you're trying to not Clip the contagion UA... that's BC mechanics....

Streten's Sleepless Shackles - Each enemy afflicted by UA increases you're damage by 4% (deson't say for how long)... again this isn't optimal use of UA, it's for cheesing on fight with unimportant adds ala Xavius's / Ygd...ydra... the Eye tree....

Hood of Eternal Disdain - Agony deals it's full damage 20% *sigh* i'm sensing a pattern. Usefull-ish on Archimonde'esque fight where priority , long lived adds, come in but still not exactly Jaw dropping.

Destro

Alythess's Pyrogenics - Enemies affected by rain of fire take 7% extra fire damage... can you say MoP?
Odr, Shawl of the Ymirjar - Enemies affected by havoc take 8% extra damage.
Feretory of Souls - Casting a fire spell has a 15% chance to generate a soul shard. "Class fantansay"
Magistrike Restraints - Chaos bolt has a 30% chance to strike 1 more target within 30 yards... ok 1) 30yds?! chaos barrage? and 2) "Class fantasy"

*Drum roll* - Demo

Kazzak's Final Curse - Doom deals 5% increased damage for each pet you have active (note PET as in not guardian, tho we only have ONE pet, iirc both Grimoire summons and Doomguards are still guardians so i assume it's suposed to say pets or guardians?)

Wilfred's Sigil of Superior Summoning - Each Dreadstalker , darkglare or Wild Imp you summon reduces Summon Doomguard / Infernals CD by 2 secs.

Recurrent Ritual - Summon Dreadstalkers refunds 2 soul shards. Amazing 1) it's free 2) it GENERATES shards with Demonic Calling.

Sin'dorei Spite - For 25 seconds after casting Summon Doomguard / infernal you and your minions deal 30% more damage. Ow look we arn't WoD survival Hunters anymore...

So what we're suposed to START as Destro / Affliction and keep the Loot spec on Demo thill we get the legendaries? Every single Demo legendary is a flat dps increase....

the demo legendaries are insane, but it raises so many questions. will the spec come together once we have all 4? at what point does having 1/2/3 legendaries edge out the other specs? is wilfreds sigil + sindorei spite combo mandatory for demo to be super competitive? i'm really tired so these questions probably suck, but i hope you get where i'm coming from

[Deleted]

They completely ruined 2/3 of the warlock specs(how did they manage to make affliction WORSE than wod affliction?). I'm not sure if anyone will actually be playing anything but demo, but I don't see why anyone would actually even play warlock with the way destruction and affliction has been handled. They both feel AWFUL to play.

Sucks they ruined a great class so much. Bring back WOTLK/CAT affliction and WOD or MOP destruction please

Aff is actually pretty sweet, it has several things I dislike (Mana Tap is absolute shit, Effigy is clunky), but overall it's pretty good. It seems simplistic, but beetween WoC and Reap you actually get to think about what you're doing.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Uh.. Destruction plays very similar to how it plays now. Just go Haste > Crit and you'll be swimming in shards and pumping out great damage.

Last time I looked(when it was first added to alpha) it played nothing like WoD.

Has it been changed?

[muto]

They completely ruined 2/3 of the warlock specs(how did they manage to make affliction WORSE than wod affliction?). I'm not sure if anyone will actually be playing anything but demo, but I don't see why anyone would actually even play warlock with the way destruction and affliction has been handled. They both feel AWFUL to play.

Sucks they ruined a great class so much. Bring back WOTLK/CAT affliction and WOD or MOP destruction please

Speak for yourself. I'm really liking all the Warlock changes.

[Rayaleith]

Speak for yourself. I'm really liking all the Warlock changes.

[OT] Ahem... Care to explain your avatar a bit? [/OT]

[Thantor]

I also like the affliction warlock changes, but it seems that if we are to have class fantasy, it has to match reality, so it will only be good at council fights (dragons/botanist )

So its go destru or go home, atleast in sunwell when we spent all day hitting shadowbolt, atleast we were competing on the dmg meters :/

[A dot Ham]

Whatever you want to play.

If you really want to push, it'll be whatever sims the best that week. And it'll vary wildly between fights and builds, and will largely depend on your artifact progression.

I kind of hate when people say this. While what you are saying is absolutely true. In most cases there has always been 1 spec that has completely outshined the others in just about every situation.

[eScar95]

From what I've gathered by talking to a few Warlock Glads, the spec to go to at 110 PvP is still Affliction and Destro will still be dog shit. Not much has changed for us in PvP.

[PowerOfTwo]

I kind of hate when people say this. While what you are saying is absolutely true. In most cases there has always been 1 spec that has completely outshined the others in just about every situation.

Well actualy there's very rarely ONE spec (well.. i gues MM says hi) , pure dps classes are expected to shift specs on a fight by fight basis, this has been fact for years.... wich is a pretty big problem for Legion and an EVEN BIGGER problems for locks given our legendary options atm... ugh gief Legendary sims allready Q_Q.

the demo legendaries are insane, but it raises so many questions. will the spec come together once we have all 4? at what point does having 1/2/3 legendaries edge out the other specs? is wilfreds sigil + sindorei spite combo mandatory for demo to be super competitive? i'm really tired so these questions probably suck, but i hope you get where i'm coming from

We simply don't know atm, i believe Affliction at least had legendary sims expected @ Aug 20th

[Spunt]

Well actualy there's very rarely ONE spec (well.. i gues MM says hi) , pure dps classes are expected to shift specs on a fight by fight basis, this has been fact for years.... wich is a pretty big problem for Legion and an EVEN BIGGER problems for locks given our legendary options atm... ugh gief Legendary sims allready Q_Q.



We simply don't know atm, i believe Affliction at least had legendary sims expected @ Aug 20th

With how long artifacts can take to max out, switching specs per fight isn't feasible.

[Gaidax]

With how long artifacts can take to max out, switching specs per fight isn't feasible.

It's not long at all. The time in expansion you will spend with unlocked artifacts will be MUCH longer than otherwise. Max out? As in 20/20 power boost trait? Yes that will take long, but 3/3 gild traits? You will have all 3 artifacts like that in a matter of two months or so.

So yes, you will switch specs plenty between the fights and will be expected to do so.