PVP templates need major fixing

[Wow]

Its kinda funny because they are actually doing a decent job with enhancement shamans. They lowered master by like 50%, doubled versatility and increased our healing. Overall we do a little bit less sustained damage, have a bit more survivability and our burst went up a bit.

They always get somethings right but most things they get very wrong.

[Noocta]

PvP Templates are not all very balanced yet, but you gotta admit it's a VERY good tool for Blizzard PvP team to affect balance without screwing over other parts of the game.

A spec is performing too well ? Just reduce one of their stats a bit in their template, super easy to do and no game wide issues.
I'm not confident the guys in charge of them will know what to do everytime, but atleast it's a good tool.

[Deleted]

PvP Templates are not all very balanced yet, but you gotta admit it's a VERY good tool for Blizzard PvP team to affect balance without screwing over other parts of the game.

A spec is performing too well ? Just reduce one of their stats a bit in their template, super easy to do and no game wide issues.
I'm not confident the guys in charge of them will know what to do everytime, but atleast it's a good tool.

And they will never be at level 90 or 60 either. Remember that balance is meant for level 110 with various honor talent modifications and artifacts on every spec.

But you are right some classes lack crucial artifact perks to be even viable, just be patient.

[Goron24]

They always get somethings right but most things they get very wrong.

Maybe at 110 but at 100 Enhancement shaman feel very weak and maelstrom starved

[Jarryftw]

Seeing the latest 'template explanation post' on the battlenet legion pvp beta forums makes me very worried. When you use an ability, anywhere, you expect it to do something, a certain amount of damage based on your AD/AP etc. but looking at these changes some masters, main stats, specific abilities have unique balancing in PVP alone - and this is only the beginning. So you could memorize that a certain spell is reduced by 50%.. so what if they change that in the future? What if one patch they decide pyroblast needs a reduction.. from a user experience it just seems poorly planned?

Similar feelings on the 'pvp talents' not being active at all times.. What if your pvp talent is your opener.. you just can't use it in world until you hit another player? [I don't know about that part just guessing from reading] Plus it seems really poor to have potentially what 5-6 abilities that will be grayed out and unusable in a pve environment? Rotations and specs are generally different between PVE and PVP but if a situation rises in PVE or PVP where a talent or a type of play style is required it's easy for a player to swap into that because they have access to those buttons at all times. Maybe that doesn't make sense - as it stands PVP as a caster you typically kite/cc and burst - there are fights where you do just that and may change the abilities that you prioritize and some abilities you almost exclusively use in PVP but still have PVE use.. I duno it just seems bad.

[Ickz]

PvP template system is amazing if they hotfix stuff regularly. Only issue I have is there really needs to be one place with all the current information. Forum posts with multiple replies with information added/edited at different times isn't going to cut it. There really should be a tab ingame that displays it all. Would also be awesome if you could hit a modifier key like ctrl when viewing a tooltip and it would switch over to the pvp version or something. This issue is one of the reasons that never wanted to do the whole "spells do different things in pvp" thing before, so it's weird they're not really making an effort to have the info cleanly laid out for everyone.

[coldcell]

I don't understand their stance.

Why not simply make abilities do x in PvE, and y in PvP. They do have the technology since some skills behave that way in the past. Rather than "pvp templates" where the whole stat (mastery, healing, etc) is being affected, individually addressing skills that are undertuned/overtuned in pvp allows them to go for the most balanced state of the game. With templates, you affect a whole bunch of skills at once so the fine tuning isn't there.

[Goron24]

I don't understand their stance.

Why not simply make abilities do x in PvE, and y in PvP. They do have the technology since some skills behave that way in the past. Rather than "pvp templates" where the whole stat (mastery, healing, etc) is being affected, individually addressing skills that are undertuned/overtuned in pvp allows them to go for the most balanced state of the game. With templates, you affect a whole bunch of skills at once so the fine tuning isn't there.

I think the idea is to hot fix stuff majorly in the first season to get it balanced. With templates you have no stat progression so you end up only needing to balance once. However if they suck at balancing and several specs end up resource starved it means they remain there without change due to gear. Its a slippery slope they've placed themselves on

[coldcell]

I think the idea is to hot fix stuff majorly in the first season to get it balanced. With templates you have no stat progression so you end up only needing to balance once. However if they suck at balancing and several specs end up resource starved it means they remain there without change due to gear. Its a slippery slope they've placed themselves on

I sure hope the hot fix policy will work. I don't really have a lot of faith though since in the past, either it takes ages for them to change something blatantly op/up or they hotfix irrelevant stuff that didn't do anything to the status quo.

[GrumpyJester]

I don't understand their stance.

Why not simply make abilities do x in PvE, and y in PvP. They do have the technology since some skills behave that way in the past. Rather than "pvp templates" where the whole stat (mastery, healing, etc) is being affected, individually addressing skills that are undertuned/overtuned in pvp allows them to go for the most balanced state of the game. With templates, you affect a whole bunch of skills at once so the fine tuning isn't there.

They do both now, which is good. Sometimes it's not a single spell that's the problem, but rather a class' performance overall.

[Coraulten]

Maybe at 110 but at 100 Enhancement shaman feel very weak and maelstrom starved

I don't feel weak at all on my enh sham, maelstrom starved though i do notice times where i just can't get the stormstrikes out that i need due to maelstrom but starved is not how i would describe it.

[Demsi]

It really takes me back to MoP where my damage in a BG and arena was about 70% of what i did in a raid

[Snegovik]

It really takes me back to MoP where my damage in a BG and arena was about 70% of what i did in a raid

I feel your pain, Rets' dmg is pretty crap inside PvP instances, our finishes are nerfed by 30% and 40% >.<. Before 7.0 patch i would be top dmg on my Ret every BG unless there was a good Boomy, now i dont even bother sigh.

[minteK917]

At this point i believe sub rogue will need to have 10% agility for blizzard to realize its not the problem lol.

[Snegovik]

Did any1 had a chance to PvP on their DHs yest (i was busy doing events on mine)? How did it go with 0 self heals and 1 crappy shield wall ability?

[solarfallz]

They should be scrapped entirely, all combat should follow the same rules.

[Deleted]

Warlocks need their fucking self-healing nerfed harder. Also, Drain Life needs to break on LoS. Sick of being drained through a pillar.

[Snegovik]

Warlocks need their fucking self-healing nerfed harder. Also, Drain Life needs to break on LoS. Sick of being drained through a pillar.

For me the issue with Locks as Ret is their Absorb Bubble, that stuff has to be nerfed to the ground, Drain of life i d/c it can remain cuz u can counter it, but that bubble u cant counter nor can Ret get any self heals from that bubble >.<

[Fenrkyr]

The unfortunate part is many of these arbitrary 50% reductions were slapped onto classes before proper tuning. For example, Fury was OP on beta for a long time because they just 1 shot everyone. So Blizzard reduced their self-healing by 50% and then later tuned their damage properly. Fury Warriors now deal the same damage as everyone else, but take 30% extra damage and don't have the self-healing they were designed to have to deal with it.

Also, in general I wish blizzard was just more incremental in nerfs and buffs. It's always 25/50/75% reductions or gains with blizzard. Never a barrage of small changes, can't just go from 100% to 90 or 85% eh? To the ceiling or to the floor has sadly always the philosophy and it just results in a revolving door of OP and UP specs rather than a gradual change to some sort of balanced state.

This is true for every class that isn't Mage. They are a protected species and get special consideration in every instance.

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Warlocks need their fucking self-healing nerfed harder. Also, Drain Life needs to break on LoS. Sick of being drained through a pillar.

Sure pre-patch isn't really important, but it is tiresome seeing 5+ warlocks in every random BG.

[DenniZ]

So enchants and gear hardly matter now. That does not seem to be a very good idea blizz.