Arms Legion Discussion

[Artunias]

I really hope you're being hyperbolic. That would mean two bis legendaries would equate to roughly 70% more dps based solely on luck. That's effectively an end of expansion amazing 4piece bonus in equivalent damage, but locked behind pure rng as opposed to raid time investment.

This would be something competitive raids couldn't even fudge. They would have to bring the players who lucked out on legendaries regardless of other factors such as raid comp, attendance, etc. You just can't justify bringing someone who does almost half the dps as someone else, regardless of attendance, comp, or anything else.

I meant there are various combos of two legendaries that equate to a 30% or even slightly more increase when combined. Individually various legendaries can still account for 12-18% damage on their own. Out of the 4 good ones for each spec, then you have the 4 garbage ones.

I think your statement still somewhat applies though, as 30% dps will trump any amount of player skill within guilds. There isn't a large skill disparity among most guilds, no matter what level they play at. And the legendary will be a larger factor than anything else.

[Smog]

I meant there are various combos of two legendaries that equate to a 30% or even slightly more increase when combined. Individually various legendaries can still account for 12-18% damage on their own. Out of the 4 good ones for each spec, then you have the 4 garbage ones.

I think your statement still somewhat applies though, as 30% dps will trump any amount of player skill within guilds. There isn't a large skill disparity among most guilds, no matter what level they play at. And the legendary will be a larger factor than anything else.

That's disappointing. As closely as I have followed Legion's development, I had somehow missed that legendaries could equate to 30% or more dps, best combination or not. This is pretty seriously concerning as a player in a competitive guild with a larger raid roster. I've never in the history of the game had trouble earning my fulltime raid spot, but a 30% dps differential based solely on rng that occurs mostly outside of raid is troubling. Especially considering my historically hilarious luck with world drops and drops in general (been playing since 2003: never gotten a single world drop epic).

Oh, well. Like everything else in Legion, I'll just shrug my shoulders and hope for the best. Blizzard will either figure out a way to make it work, or fail and lose what will basically be their last chance to revitalize the game and keep it relevant.

[satimy]

That's disappointing. As closely as I have followed Legion's development, I had somehow missed that legendaries could equate to 30% or more dps, best combination or not. This is pretty seriously concerning as a player in a competitive guild with a larger raid roster. I've never in the history of the game had trouble earning my fulltime raid spot, but a 30% dps differential based solely on rng that occurs mostly outside of raid is troubling. Especially considering my historically hilarious luck with world drops and drops in general (been playing since 2003: never gotten a single world drop epic).

Oh, well. Like everything else in Legion, I'll just shrug my shoulders and hope for the best. Blizzard will either figure out a way to make it work, or fail and lose what will basically be their last chance to revitalize the game and keep it relevant.

Anyone with an inkling of a brain could've see. It coming a mile away. Blizzard thinks Diablo 3 is a good design currently, people that designed it now design wow. Don't be surprised when the shit train smells like poo. It's just a bad system but its core now for blizzard

[Smog]

Anyone with an inkling of a brain could've see. It coming a mile away. Blizzard thinks Diablo 3 is a good design currently, people that designed it now design wow. Don't be surprised when the shit train smells like poo. It's just a bad system but its core now for blizzard

I would argue against drawing a direct parallel to Diablo 3. Diablo 3 has systems in place to help curb the rng, and allow you to focus your efforts to attain the pieces you really need, through Blood Shards. There also isn't the element of competing for a raid spot.

Diablo 3 also requires a much smaller investment of time to get your build online. You can get your set bonus and most required legendaries in a few serious nights of grinding. They may not be the absolute best stats, but you'll be able to get up to 80-90% performance pretty quickly within a few days of a new season starting.

This system, as Artunias is describing it, is far less forgiving, and not able to be focused in the same manner. It's complete rng and gated behind mostly group content (as the emissaries are not infinitely repeatable). If you could somehow farm for the specific legendaries you needed for your spec, that would perhaps be more acceptable, but having a 30% dps increase gated behind absolute rng, and any legendary you do manage to get having basically a coin flip's chance of being useless, is pretty brutally unacceptable.

That's D3-at-launch levels of rng, grindy, rage-inducing disparity.

[satimy]

I would argue against drawing a direct parallel to Diablo 3. Diablo 3 has systems in place to help curb the rng, and allow you to focus your efforts to attain the pieces you really need, through Blood Shards. There also isn't the element of competing for a raid spot.

Diablo 3 also requires a much smaller investment of time to get your build online. You can get your set bonus and most required legendaries in a few serious nights of grinding. They may not be the absolute best stats, but you'll be able to get up to 80-90% performance pretty quickly within a few days of a new season starting.

This system, as Artunias is describing it, is far less forgiving, and not able to be focused in the same manner. It's complete rng and gated behind mostly group content (as the emissaries are not infinitely repeatable). If you could somehow farm for the specific legendaries you needed for your spec, that would perhaps be more acceptable, but having a 30% dps increase gated behind absolute rng, and any legendary you do manage to get having basically a coin flip's chance of being useless, is pretty brutally unacceptable.

That's D3-at-launch levels of rng, grindy, rage-inducing disparity.

All that is is drop rates,

It's the system of launching a half designed game and having classes feel unplayable at times without sets or legendary items. That is the same Diablo 3 system, Diablo 3 just dumps everything on you in an hour.

[Smog]

All that is is drop rates,

It's the system of launching a half designed game and having classes feel unplayable at times without sets or legendary items. That is the same Diablo 3 system, Diablo 3 just dumps everything on you in an hour.

It's not just drop rates. Legion does not have a mechanic by which you can say "I want 80+% of my potential legendary drops to be belts only". Diablo does, and it makes all of the difference in the world.

But I do agree with you that it's a bad system.

[Artunias]

On a side note, didn't Celestalon say that Sweeping Strikes was supposed to be 8 yards? Because it is definitely not lol. I report the bug probably every 2 weeks, but it really butchers the usefulness of the talent.

[Deleted]

I meant there are various combos of two legendaries that equate to a 30% or even slightly more increase when combined.

Care to give a source for these numbers? I'm already happy with SimC charts.

[Artunias]

Care to give a source for these numbers? I'm already happy with SimC charts.

My personal testing.

There are no SimC charts for Legendaries?

[Ferozan]

Can confirm that those legendaries, specially the execute ring, give a huge boost to dps.

The gloves would be an even greater increase on the monkey hamstring/fr spam build.

Also, dat 12% slam damage buff.

[Deleted]

I disagree with this a lot. Any combo of two "good legendaries" is easily 30% or even more dps depending on the situation. 30% dps is a fuck ton. Not to mention most of these items that provide these massive dps increases also make the class play about 100x better.

This system will probably make me quit the game if I don't get a good one early on. It's stupid how powerful these are, yet some of the drops you can get have zero dps benefit.

Dunno why u are bringing up warrior legendary's in every recent post u make. And let me clear one thing for you. If indeed it's the fact that warrior legendaries are so OP like u claim, that only means other classes like mages or hunters or DHs mostly likely have an even stronger legendary. It's not like everyone else will get cosmetic legendaries so they fart rainbows on ability cast, and warriors get 30% more DPS from each herp derp. Everything will balance out trust me, if warriors are in the middle of the pack without legendaries, they will be in the middle of the pack after they get them also (considering other classes get them at the same rate).

[Tellof]

Is Slam worth using now Single Target with Trauma? I can imagine Fervor of Battle is still good on Cleave/AoE fights but I'd actually like using Slam on Single Target just to mix it up.

Thanks!

[Artunias]

Can confirm that those legendaries, specially the execute ring, give a huge boost to dps.

The gloves would be an even greater increase on the monkey hamstring/fr spam build.

Also, dat 12% slam damage buff.

Gloves + Ring is stupid good with Focused Rage build.

I'm also pretty underwhelmed with the slam buff. Fervor + WW is still more damage and Rend and Avatar are both underwhelming. Not to mention the free cleave with Fervor and interaction with cleave + legendary belt.

[Warriorsarri]

Have any of you actually tested if Slam got buffed on Live?

[Qoma]

"Increased Slam’s damage by up to 12%." What the hell kind of wording is this?

[volgon]

Have any of you actually tested if Slam got buffed on Live?

I did, but it's hard for me to tell exactly what Slam's weapon damage is now. Wowhead shows Slam's original damage at 170% at 15 rage, so the July 16th hotfixes should make it 226% damage at 20 rage, but when I calculated the damage in game I got ~201% weapon damage.

I did another calculation after the August 8th hotfix and figured Slam's damage at 226% weapon damage, which I found odd since that's the value it was supposed to be at originally. Perhaps I was miscalculating the "damage increased by 33%" part.

TLDR: Slam is at 226% weapon damage now after the August 8th hotfix.

[Deleted]

Alright some quick sim with gear I have on beta.

Talents http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...or#Zaa!1000211
So gloves gives ~15% boost or so.
Ring clearly not working in simc as it should.

[Calamari]

Dam having Sudden Death back from Ring feels so nice, gonna miss it at launch.

[Artunias]

Dam having Sudden Death back from Ring feels so nice, gonna miss it at launch.

You mean having a class that actually functions properly? That's what I'll miss about losing the Legendaries.

[Calamari]

You mean having a class that actually functions properly? That's what I'll miss about losing the Legendaries.

I do enjoy the idea that legendaries can spice up our rotation a little, but having them impact our dps in such an extreme way is a bummer. They did vaguely hint at introducing a method to acquire specific legendaries.. there's hoping for that.