1. #3201
    Quote Originally Posted by theblackharvest View Post
    How bad is targeting switching / cleaving with demo?
    i mean i understand it doesnt compare with destro since havoc is the ideal spell for that kind of stuff.. but with some talents like demonbolt, implosion, synergy grimoire it should work..at least on paper. Synergy procs quite often and 40% dmg boost to thalkiel and implosion doesnt seem smthing to laugh at. Also if the adds spawn away from boss you could use the doomguard so you dont have the felguard to run the marathon from mob to mob.

    Can demo pull its weight as far target switching goes or its just better to forget it and just tunnel boss, cause it cant do anything else anyway?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    But DPS isn;t the only consideration. The Darkglare has a cooldown, plus it is tied to Doomed targets and Demonic Empowerment, , I'd suggest that it's therefore less useful for "kill this priority add quick" than Demon Bolt for example

    As I said, it's a common practise for Blizzard to make tier talents approximately equivalent, so it should come as no surprise (apart from the surprise that they've actually managed it, which they often don't!) - roughly equal damage, different situational usefulness.

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    Just try it, it's hard to explain, easy to experience. The guardian pets just aren't reliable, it's easier to think of them as DOTs with legs

    The felguard has all the usual pathing problems that pets have, as well as being (obviously) melee. I don;t think they've significantly improved the AI, and I played the Demonic Pact raid bitch for a while in Wrath, and it weas always a problem, particularly in any instance where you jumped down places, or got teleported into "other dimensions" (as it were)


    Incidentally, is anyone really still holding out hope that demonology is going to get any changes or buffs to make it viable compared to destruction or even affliction as a progression/Mythic spec?

    The last few patche smake it obvious we're very much in a small-tweaks-only phase - I can;t see them handing out big buffs or chaning spells to instants this late in the game.

    Maybe after they see hardly anyone running demo in raids outside of LFR and the few diehards pulling really bad numbers - a couple of months too late when we've all levelled our destruction artifacts.
    Add to that, I was running SOO for tmog run as demo. On Immersus, when there was those slimes across the room, my pet would have to run to it, incurred a dps loss + long cast time. Also, my pet attack is macroed to my abilities like shadowbolt. I feel like we will be heavily dependent on the legionaries to make our lives easier. When there is a large distance from your main target and the add/priority target, I see a lot of problems since our aoe is tied to our felguard or imps if we spec into it and guardian pets wont switch until first target dies, so they wont switch from boss. I am still gonna play demo because I like summoning demons and bgs are a lot of fun as demo.
    Last edited by elcapone; 2016-08-09 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #3202
    guardians got to stick to the target you casted them on..or you would just have melee demons running between target loosing tons of dmg. also why I personally mostly have favoured the imp through the expansions..obviously for the same reason.
    I'm sure you know, but with the problem you were having..just putting the pet on passive and manually guide him where you want the dmg done..is possible. you just have to get used to it.

    on the imps though..they can`t imploded on what target you want?
    Last edited by wooters; 2016-08-09 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #3203
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gar1234 View Post
    Yes, but only a little bit. They scaled the aura effect and the size of empowered demons way down compared to what it was in the alpha.
    Sadly. DE hardly enlarges the demons at all.

    Personally, I also think it sucks that demonology doesn't use the dreadlord in PVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooters View Post
    guardians got to stick to the target you casted them on..or you would just have melee demons running between target loosing tons of dmg. also why I personally mostly have favoured the imp through the expansions..obviously for the same reason.
    I'm sure you know, but with the problem you were having..just putting the pet on passive and manually guide him where you want the dmg done..is possible. you just have to get used to it.

    on the imps though..they can`t imploded on what target you want?
    The imps are ranged, and the dreadstalkers have a leap so they go straight to target on summon

    afaik imps can be imploded on any target

  4. #3204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Sadly. DE hardly enlarges the demons at all.

    Personally, I also think it sucks that demonology doesn't use the dreadlord in PVE.

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    The imps are ranged, and the dreadstalkers have a leap so they go straight to target on summon

    afaik imps can be imploded on any target
    I can confirm this about Implosion. It is actually pretty nice damage on add packs that spawn during an encounter.
    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” -- Voltaire

    "He who awaits much can expect little" -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

  5. #3205
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    I can confirm this about Implosion. It is actually pretty nice damage on add packs that spawn during an encounter.
    how about for ST, is implosion good?

  6. #3206
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by elcapone View Post
    how about for ST, is implosion good?
    It's not the best talent for ST obviously, that would be Improved Dreadstalkers. But it should be very close depending on your other talents.

  7. #3207
    Deleted
    But easier to screw up, since in effect you burn your imps. Easy to waste them.

  8. #3208
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    Yeah it is really hard to play implosion "correctly" in T18 gear because of the still broken game play due to tier+archi trinket. I am afraid that I am developing some bad habits!
    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” -- Voltaire

    "He who awaits much can expect little" -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

  9. #3209
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuvial View Post
    It's not the best talent for ST obviously, that would be Improved Dreadstalkers. But it should be very close depending on your other talents.
    cool


    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    Yeah it is really hard to play implosion "correctly" in T18 gear because of the still broken game play due to tier+archi trinket. I am afraid that I am developing some bad habits!
    haha for real, I will have to check out emerald nightmare and see how far implosion will be valuable for the bosses. from what I have heard, opportunities will be low to switch talents.

  10. #3210
    Hey folks! i got given the ok to link this in here.
    Hopefully its helpful to someone


  11. #3211
    Anyone knows if the tier bonus will be deactivated at Aug 30?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostelion View Post
    Hey folks! i got given the ok to link this in here.
    Hopefully its helpful to someone



    One small mistake. You say that shadowbolt is our main shard spender.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  12. #3212
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    Anyone knows if the tier bonus will be deactivated at Aug 30?

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    One small mistake. You say that shadowbolt is our main shard spender.
    WOW... you know. i have it written down as generator, and i checked that audio countless times before using it, and watched the whole thing front to back so many times fixing editing and timing issues. and i STILL didnt spot that.. its unreal. Thanks! there is a note up now

  13. #3213
    Deleted
    The tier and trinket bonuses are distorting demonology - the extra imps make it much stronger than it should be. And simplify the rotation too.

  14. #3214
    Deleted
    They don't make it stronger than it should be, but stronger than the other specs are at the moment without the artifact.

    After the 4piece nerf, demo is still the best raid spec, but middle of the road after the "favorite" classes

  15. #3215
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    The tier and trinket bonuses are distorting demonology - the extra imps make it much stronger than it should be. And simplify the rotation too.
    Yeah I'm having a hard time enjoying raiding right now. Demo is a very methodical rotation. Take out dogs and its plain boring as fuck. Affliction is cancer playing with Effigy, but none of the fun tools of the Artifact to compensate in the fun department. Destro doesnt feel as fluid with the change to resource generation and for the most part is just the same ol shit with no new talents that interest me. I don't like the way Destro talents are designed for ST/AoE/Cleave ... way too much core toolkit wrapped up into the talents.

    Demo needs to be able to multi dot with Dreadstalkers, Affliction needs to lose the Effigy, and Destro needs Shadowburn back baseline.. then I'd be a much happier Warlock.

  16. #3216
    Hi guys,

    My test sing

    Demo>destro>affli

    obs: Sin'dorei Spite + Wilfred's Sigil of Superior Summoning (CD domguard 1:30min)
    Last edited by Nefury; 2016-08-11 at 09:05 PM.

  17. #3217
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    They don't make it stronger than it should be, but stronger than the other specs are at the moment without the artifact.

    After the 4piece nerf, demo is still the best raid spec, but middle of the road after the "favorite" classes
    You're right. Demo should be that strong given it's inherent weaknesses which are apparent when you are doing real raid encounters rather than being able to stand and tunnel because everyone now massively overgears Draenor stuff.

    I shoudl have said the tier bonuses and trinket are making demo much stronger than it's intended design, basically the tier/trinket synergise with demonic empowerment and shadowbolt to an extraordinary degree, in a way that they were never intended to do and did not do with the old demonology

    As you say, they felt the need to nerf demo, but are quite happy to let mages do even more damage and go untouched

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefury View Post
    Hi guys,

    My test sing

    Demo>destro>affli

    obs: Sin'dorei Spite + Wilfred's Sigil of Superior Summoning (CD domguard 1:30min)
    If true it just means demonology is overpowered thanks to a gear crutch, which either will not go live, or will be nerfed to the ground if too many people get those legendaries

    I hated the ide aof those legendaries from day one, they are in some cases so powerful they can elevate a player massively through sheer luck of obtaining one (this can make for really bad feeling within guilds and raids, particularly if someone with a hugely OP gear crutch gives in to the temptation to constantly post recount, it is no fun for everyoen else to put effort and skill in only to be outperformed by a trinket) and can completely invalidate a spec choice, which you are chained to by the artifact

    It's just bad design to have items like that which are purely RNG based - bad enough when everyone can get them via a guaranteed grind.

    But of course, the whole idea is that someone in a guild will get one - and then everyone else feels compelled to start farming

  18. #3218
    Deleted
    I see alot of you talking about the synergy between sin+winfred, If you havent noticed Sin'dorei spite's procc can only happen every 3 minutes so there is no real extra "synergy".

  19. #3219
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Flikgoeswild View Post
    I see alot of you talking about the synergy between sin+winfred, If you havent noticed Sin'dorei spite's procc can only happen every 3 minutes so there is no real extra "synergy".
    The cooldown only exists if you spec into permanent doomguard / infernal. If you pick another talent, it has the cooldown of infernal / doomguard, which can then be reduced.

  20. #3220
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    You're right. Demo should be that strong given it's inherent weaknesses which are apparent when you are doing real raid encounters rather than being able to stand and tunnel because everyone now massively overgears Draenor stuff.

    I shoudl have said the tier bonuses and trinket are making demo much stronger than it's intended design, basically the tier/trinket synergise with demonic empowerment and shadowbolt to an extraordinary degree, in a way that they were never intended to do and did not do with the old demonology

    As you say, they felt the need to nerf demo, but are quite happy to let mages do even more damage and go untouched

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    If true it just means demonology is overpowered thanks to a gear crutch, which either will not go live, or will be nerfed to the ground if too many people get those legendaries

    I hated the ide aof those legendaries from day one, they are in some cases so powerful they can elevate a player massively through sheer luck of obtaining one (this can make for really bad feeling within guilds and raids, particularly if someone with a hugely OP gear crutch gives in to the temptation to constantly post recount, it is no fun for everyoen else to put effort and skill in only to be outperformed by a trinket) and can completely invalidate a spec choice, which you are chained to by the artifact

    It's just bad design to have items like that which are purely RNG based - bad enough when everyone can get them via a guaranteed grind.

    But of course, the whole idea is that someone in a guild will get one - and then everyone else feels compelled to start farming
    Talent: 1,2,1,3,3,2,2
    Race:Orc

    Very strong bust, I hope simcrafts show the numbers with two legendary

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