elisande redemption

[Enthralled]

You would think after the horriblly balanced fight that was Ra-den since he never got tested, and again with mythic Archi, blizzard would allow players to fully test bosses, even on the higher difficulties

He may get a PTR test.

[Deleted]

Don't know much about the highborne?

I am very familiar with them, actually. Just not familiar with the Nightborne, and didn't make the connection because I avoided researching on the topic until now!

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You would think after the horriblly balanced fight that was Ra-den since he never got tested, and again with mythic Archi, blizzard would allow players to fully test bosses, even on the higher difficulties

Wasn't Ra-Den UNDERTUNED as a result?

We are not a top guild, but it took us 8 attempts to shoot him down after getting Lei Shen, and we were able to get the feat for no one dying the next reset (I forgot the name).

[Combatbutler]

A moral ambiguous character survives the might of the pc, nice. It remains to be seen if she stays in power after all is over though, she might get exiled.

[Raetary]

oh thank god, it would be such a waste to just kill her off.

[Flurryfang]

So Elisande runs a city of addicts and uses that addiction to leverage control, and exiles those that don't obey her. (This all happens before the Legion's arrival.) Elisande is a horrible elf. Off with her head.

No redemption for her. Sure, she made what she thought was the best decision for her at the time, allying with the Legion, but that doesn't mean she wasn't running a dictatorship beforehand.

This is just how the elfs do things. The Blood Elfs do the same thing, and hey, if that "control" gives her people peace, who are we to say, that she is wrong

[Hellspawn]

Well, considering how they had to maintain control over the people and keep them operating optimally to maintain their bubble shield over the city to protect themselves from the Legion, and how the Arcwine made from the Nightwell sustained them through the millennia when food and water would have run out long ago, that gets a pass from me.

Nobody was ever banished until after Gul'dan came, the barrier came down, and they discovered that going without the Nightwell's energies turned them into like weird thingies. It was impossible to banish anyone before the barrier was dropped, because they couldn't leave the city.

They where banned before, but we don't know why people where banned.

Also, I like elves (Silver Covenant don't count because they're rabid dogs, not elves) because they banish dissenters, not execute/murder/purge them like humans do.

Well... do you know the story about Prince Tortheldrin and Eldre'Thalas?
Being evil is nothing race specific.

[Raetary]

how Thalyssa take this?

will take it with joy most likely.

[Mace]

A moral ambiguous character survives the might of the pc, nice. It remains to be seen if she stays in power after all is over though, she might get exiled.

lets speculate on her fate

on the one hand she is a war hero for saving the city and upholding it for 10k years, under her leadership the nightborne managed their city perfectly, no abuses of magic or recklessness - she ended all of that - i mean it helped that failure to do it right could have produced hell inside the bubble, so it's not an easy achievement commandeering a very prosperous night elven society especially when most of us think that night elven magic users are all prone to go all reckless and stupid like Azshara, and the shend'relar with Immol'thar - it's one of the reasons I like the nightborne, for a change a night elf based group that did magic right - and the irony --- they still get corrupted, but at least it's not because of recklessness or abuse or anything like that, it's more similar to the druid's corruption - as in something has corrupted the original source and caused this effect that results in nightfallen if you dont' feed.

So she has that much to her credit, and she didn't jump into bed with the legion straightaway like some others wanted to do, and she falls in line after you defeat her, rather than continue fighting you.. who knows how long she could have kept turning back time, but she sees something in us and turns around.

Might be exile, but I doubt it, the night elves don't normally do that to people who turn around and do the right thing, especially if they've been good for most of the time, and their efforts directly contribute to saving the day. I think she would lose her position as leader, unless she really rises up

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will take it with joy most likely.

I know right, like we just met her, actually kinda liked her even felt sorry for her, but so glad she changes her mind.

[Combatbutler]

lets speculate on her fate

on the one hand she is a war hero for saving the city and upholding it for 10k years, under her leadership the nightborne managed their city perfectly, no abuses of magic or recklessness - she ended all of that - i mean it helped that failure to do it right could have produced hell inside the bubble, so it's not an easy achievement commandeering a very prosperous night elven society especially when most of us think that night elven magic users are all prone to go all reckless and stupid like Azshara, and the shend'relar with Immol'thar - it's one of the reasons I like the nightborne, for a change a night elf based group that did magic right - and the irony --- they still get corrupted, but at least it's not because of recklessness or abuse or anything like that, it's more similar to the druid's corruption - as in something has corrupted the original source and caused this effect that results in nightfallen if you dont' feed.

So she has that much to her credit, and she didn't jump into bed with the legion straightaway like some others wanted to do, and she falls in line after you defeat her, rather than continue fighting you.. who knows how long she could have kept turning back time, but she sees something in us and turns around.

Might be exile, but I doubt it, the night elves don't normally do that to people who turn around and do the right thing, especially if they've been good for most of the time, and their efforts directly contribute to saving the day. I think she would lose her position as leader, unless she really rises up

It really depends on what Thalyssra and her group will do, they are basically overthrowing her after all and throughout the questchain get more agitated at her and her cronies methods. It really depends on how blizz intends to handle her, sentencing her to exile would allow her to be present in the world and be encountered later on as a neutral npc, atoning for her sins.

[Mace]

It really depends on what Thalyssra and her group will do, they are basically overthrowing her after all and throughout the questchain get more agitated at her and her cronies methods. It really depends on how blizz intends to handle her, sentencing her to exile would allow her to be present in the world and be encountered later on as a neutral npc, atoning for her sins.

that would be kinda awesome. I don't see her as the one to back pack around the world, lonely exile sort of thing though. She'd probably be left hanging around somewhere

Ah.. you know, she might end up in Dalaran, i'm sure they'd probably welcome her and all her knowledge, probably brining the kirin'tor to the levle of the nightborne too.

Also there is a wildcard we haven't considered.

What if Tyrande and Elisande are sisters??! - there names both end in "ande" could be a subtle sign. We really don't know if Tyrande was from a highborne family for sure, and remember they call her Lady Tyrande.. which we assumed was just because of her station, but it could have been more. WotA explains that joining the priesthood you sever all ties, and it is never mentioned where her family was from, does it.. she could have been highborne, an alternative could be that Elisande was raised to highborne which happened back then, if Azshara spotted you as gifted, you were raised, just you though, not necessarily your siblings, and you'd join the new elite caste.

I don't think the Stormrage brothers were highborne, Illidan was certainly interested in sorcery, many night elves were, and a lot of readers don't realize, arcane magic was certainly not highborne exclusive, they were just the highest concentrated group with the highest pool of talent, but by no means exclusive. Illidan does have a highborne air to him, Malfurion we know rejected all that, very alaramed by the decadence he saw, and wholly rejected that lifestyle, but like all night elves we know he was quite conversant with casting spells and we are shown he is quite talented, it's not druidic magic he uses to stop Azshara afterall, but we see him use some of his training from Cenarius in the fight.. but it is possible they could have come from a highborne family, as it is never specifically stated, I think it's unlikely for them, but for Tyrande, it could be.

Still if she is Tyrande's sister, this could get very very interested.

[Combatbutler]

that would be kinda awesome, but i don't see her as the one hitching a ride along.

Ah.. you know, she might end up in Dalaran, i'm sure they'd probably welcome her and all her knowledge, probably brining the kirin'tor to the levle of the nightborne too.

Also there is a wildcard we haven't considered.

What if Tyrande and Elisande are sisters??! - there names both end in "ande" could be a subtle sign. We really don't know if Tyrande was from a highborne family for sure, and remember they call her Lady Tyrande.. which we assumed was just because of her station, but it could have been more. WotA explains that joining the priesthood you sever all ties, and it is never mentioned where her family was from, does it.. she could have been highborne, an alternative could be that Elisande was raised to highborne which happened back then, if Azshara spotted you as gifted, you were raised, just you though, not necessarily your siblings, and you'd join the new elite caste.

I don't think the Stormrage brothers were highborne, Illidan was certainly interested in sorcery, many night elves were, and a lot of readers don't realize, arcane magic was certainly not highborne exclusive, they were just the highest concentrated group with the highest pool of talent, but by no means exclusive. Illidan does have a highborne air to him, Malfurion we know rejected all that, very alaramed by the decadence he saw, and wholly rejected that lifestyle, but like all night elves we know he was quite conversant with casting spells and we are shown he is quite talented, it's not druidic magic he uses to stop Azshara afterall, but we see him use some of his training from Cenarius in the fight.. but it is possible they could have come from a highborne family, as it is never specifically stated, I think it's unlikely for them, but for Tyrande, it could be.

Still if she is Tyrande's sister, this could get very very interested.

I don't really like the idea of Elisande having any surviving relatives outside of her little bubble. It takes away a chunk of her story and would just add her to something else, she should have her own story, her very own motives not tied to anything post sundering night elven society, so that she might embark on a new path, see the world, visiting other highborne enclaves, in Darnassus, Eldre'thalas and Silvermoon and if possible keep her as far away from the Kirin tor as possible, those mage spotlight hogging maniacs.

[Hellspawn]

that would be kinda awesome. I don't see her as the one to back pack around the world, lonely exile sort of thing though. She'd probably be left hanging around somewhere

Ah.. you know, she might end up in Dalaran, i'm sure they'd probably welcome her and all her knowledge, probably brining the kirin'tor to the levle of the nightborne too.

Also there is a wildcard we haven't considered.

What if Tyrande and Elisande are sisters??! - there names both end in "ande" could be a subtle sign. We really don't know if Tyrande was from a highborne family for sure, and remember they call her Lady Tyrande.. which we assumed was just because of her station, but it could have been more. WotA explains that joining the priesthood you sever all ties, and it is never mentioned where her family was from, does it.. she could have been highborne, an alternative could be that Elisande was raised to highborne which happened back then, if Azshara spotted you as gifted, you were raised, just you though, not necessarily your siblings, and you'd join the new elite caste.

I don't think the Stormrage brothers were highborne, Illidan was certainly interested in sorcery, many night elves were, and a lot of readers don't realize, arcane magic was certainly not highborne exclusive, they were just the highest concentrated group with the highest pool of talent, but by no means exclusive. Illidan does have a highborne air to him, Malfurion we know rejected all that, very alaramed by the decadence he saw, and wholly rejected that lifestyle, but like all night elves we know he was quite conversant with casting spells and we are shown he is quite talented, it's not druidic magic he uses to stop Azshara afterall, but we see him use some of his training from Cenarius in the fight.. but it is possible they could have come from a highborne family, as it is never specifically stated, I think it's unlikely for them, but for Tyrande, it could be.

Still if she is Tyrande's sister, this could get very very interested.

Or even twin.. sister!!!
No just kidding that would be stupid.

[Mace]

Or even twin.. sister!!!
No just kidding that would be stupid.

it would be scandelous !! might deepen the resentment Maiev has for her leader too, especially if she has highborne connections/roots.

[Alanar]

It would be interesting to make them closer to the blood elves (wich they are in their way of life) and make some of them join the horde as a sub "night/dark elf" race so the high elves can finally be playable on the Alliance side !

But people would complain about whole new textures on them when high elves are basically juste a recolor of the blood one and everyone would QQ so i don't think so. x) If they improve the high elf model to balance that, blood one would qq about it, sadly i don"t see ever high elves playable. :'(

Please.. nightborne would be perfect for night elf subrace since the highborne joined in cata as well and since they are mages as well seema fine for the story.
High elves for that matter should just die in hellish fire and leave blood elves with other cooler options such as the sanlayn imo.

[Mace]

Please.. nightborne would be perfect for night elf subrace since the highborne joined in cata as well and since they are mages as well seema fine for the story.
High elves for that matter should just die in hellish fire and leave blood elves with other cooler options such as the sanlayn imo.

yes, it's interesting most people forget the strong connection nightborne already have to the night elves in like everywhere, choosing to completely skip the existence of the highborne they are far more likely to bond with not to mention their family members in the night elves who left as heroes and were thought dead, but now they will soon discover they actually survived the war of the ancients as victors and then went into a 10 year isolation without magic due to a rather unfortuante mis-understanding.

It's interesting people first jump to blood elves instead of the far closer highborne which are already present - but I think that's because a fraction of the player population are actually aware of the highborne or the night elves even having embraced arcane magic again and having the highborne back in their society, simply because they are not prominent - you have to specifically do the night elf quests and areas to hear about them, and it's part of the reason night elven magic users seem so new to most people, because they never experienced them. Never read about them in the Wc3 manual or in the WotA - largely playing the game you'd always see blood elves dealing with arcane magic, but always see night elves with nature magic. In fact in game you wouldn't even see night elves as female amazonian type warrior huntresses or priestesses like in WC3, nope, if you did not play the night elf, you would only meet them when they were showing nature stuff with druids.

So it doesn't surprise me most people think blood elves first, I just calmly bring up the highborne, the history, and show them this has been there all along. I mean you don't get more night elf than nightborne, they're even more elves of the night than the night elves themselves - how any body can think of them in terms of blood elves is astounding and yet totally predictable at the same time.

it's like the nightborne are the extreme end of night elvenness and the blood elves are at the other end, but think of the ends more curved like a circle, so that actually the 2 ends are close to each other, hence their similarities but are complete opposite ends.

Another analogy to the circle is a sphere of the earth along longitude. Take the edge of Russia and canada, they nearly touch, similar climate everything, but they are a world apart and a full 24 hour cycle apart, they don't get more night than the nightborne, they don't get more day than the blood elves. It's like the night is the antithesis of the day, but in wow it's not along good/evil lines, it's just along theme lines, but they are opposite. It wouldn't surprise me if the nightborne get really anti-blood elf too. We've been expecting friendship between the two because of the arcane, but they are on opposite ends, needing nothing from the blood elves but a lot from the night elves like reconnection to nature and Elune whereas the night elves are desperate for good arcane users that aren't irresponsible. I half expect blizzard to write the blood elves jealous and threatened over the nightborne, and the nightborne contemptuous but wary over the blood elves, - with blood elves being very clear an unshifting of their identity as not night elves - i.e. nothing to do with Kal'dorei or night culture, arcane, worship or otherwise. You know sort of the way two alpha dogs, or Queen Bs very similar don't get along at all, and a sort of competition happens. [omg @ravenmoon I see what you mean now dude, I wouldn't put it past blizzard to do this - you gotta have some conflict going between the player races]

I'll tell you this though, DHs, arcane night elves are now prominent, thanks to Legion - rather than just players doing the night elf story experiencing them, everyone will, like in WC3, this should really put arcane magic usage, demon hunter melee mastery, amazonian female warrior huntress/priestess type back in prominent light alongside druidsm. After legion, people should now see that night elves have a lot more to them than just druids. And if they dig a little deeper, they'd find out that actually all these elements have been with them from the very start.

• Introduced as a highly arcane civilization that went on a magic hiatus - but were totally into it and very good at it - we thought the magic night elves were lost (either dead or now high elves, naga or satyr), they weren't, now they've emerged, some as highborne, some as nightborne)
• Introduced as having a strong female warrior/amazonian vibe and sisterhood.
• Introduced the demon hunter too - Illidan was already in there as a demon hunter from Day 1 too - it isn't new to night elves
• Introduced as a strong druid community - this was the males of the vigil group, the other part of the night elves.

Problem is in wow only the druid bit was shown. Until legion now, where they've really opened up the arcane bit with Suramar, seriously expanded the demon hunter bit with the Illidari, and taken our attention to the female amazonian warriors with the Wardens. But they've always been there

[Alanar]

yes, it's interesting most people forget the strong connection nightborne already have to the night elves in like everywhere, choosing to completely skip the existence of the highborne they are far more likely to bond with not to mention their family members in the night elves who left as heroes and were thought dead, but now they will soon discover they actually survived the war of the ancients as victors and then went into a 10 year isolation without magic due to a rather unfortuante mis-understanding.

It's interesting people first jump to blood elves instead of the far closer highborne which are already present - but I think that's because a fraction of the player population are actually aware of the highborne or the night elves even having embraced arcane magic again and having the highborne back in their society, simply because they are not prominent - you have to specifically do the night elf quests and areas to hear about them, and it's part of the reason night elven magic users seem so new to most people, because they never experienced them. Never read about them in the Wc3 manual or in the WotA - largely playing the game you'd always see blood elves dealing with arcane magic, but always see night elves with nature magic. In fact in game you wouldn't even see night elves as female amazonian type warrior huntresses or priestesses like in WC3, nope, if you did not play the night elf, you would only meet them when they were showing nature stuff with druids.

So it doesn't surprise me most people think blood elves first, I just calmly bring up the highborne, the history, and show them this has been there all along. I mean you don't get more night elf than nightborne, they're even more elves of the night than the night elves themselves - how any body can think of them in terms of blood elves is astounding and yet totally predictable at the same time.

it's like the nightborne are the extreme end of night elvenness and the blood elves are at the other end, but think of the ends more curved like a circle, so that actually the 2 ends are close to each other, hence their similarities but are complete opposite ends.

Another analogy to the circle is a sphere of the earth along longitude. Take the edge of Russia and canada, they nearly touch, similar climate everything, but they are a world apart and a full 24 hour cycle apart, they don't get more night than the nightborne, they don't get more day than the blood elves. It's like the night is the antithesis of the day, but in wow it's not along good/evil lines, it's just along theme lines, but they are opposite. It wouldn't surprise me if the nightborne get really anti-blood elf too. We've been expecting friendship between the two because of the arcane, but they are on opposite ends, needing nothing from the blood elves but a lot from the night elves like reconnection to nature and Elune whereas the night elves are desperate for good arcane users that aren't irresponsible. I half expect blizzard to write the blood elves jealous and threatened over the nightborne, and the nightborne contemptuous but wary over the blood elves, - with blood elves being very clear an unshifting of their identity as not night elves - i.e. nothing to do with Kal'dorei or night culture, arcane, worship or otherwise. You know sort of the way two alpha dogs, or Queen Bs very similar don't get along at all, and a sort of competition happens. [omg @ravenmoon I see what you mean now dude, I wouldn't put it past blizzard to do this - you gotta have some conflict going between the player races]

I'll tell you this though, DHs, arcane night elves are now prominent, thanks to Legion - rather than just players doing the night elf story experiencing them, everyone will, like in WC3, this should really put arcane magic usage, demon hunter melee mastery, amazonian female warrior huntress/priestess type back in prominent light alongside druidsm. After legion, people should now see that night elves have a lot more to them than just druids. And if they dig a little deeper, they'd find out that actually all these elements have been with them from the very start.

• Introduced as a highly arcane civilization that went on a magic hiatus - but were totally into it and very good at it - we thought the magic night elves were lost (either dead or now high elves, naga or satyr), they weren't, now they've emerged, some as highborne, some as nightborne)
• Introduced as having a strong female warrior/amazonian vibe and sisterhood.
• Introduced the demon hunter too - Illidan was already in there as a demon hunter from Day 1 too - it isn't new to night elves
• Introduced as a strong druid community - this was the males of the vigil group, the other part of the night elves.

Problem is in wow only the druid bit was shown. Until legion now, where they've really opened up the arcane bit with Suramar, seriously expanded the demon hunter bit with the Illidari, and taken our attention to the female amazonian warriors with the Wardens. But they've always been there

I realy don't where your going with this?.. only thing I said that it would be a logical thing for Nightborne to have Highborne evolved and learn from them aka Night elf subrace idea.

High elves is just a thing on it's own with no inetresting parts or missing pieces anymore, Sunwell is restored story moves on. we never got an update to Quel'danas and the sunwell how Blood elves and High elves have pilgrims of both back with the Quel'delar chain.


Another analogy to the circle is a sphere of the earth along longitu... dude I don't even know what your saying here with the last bit..just to much text for me here..

[Mace]

I realy don't where your going with this?.. only thing I said that it would be a logical thing for Nightborne to have Highborne evolved and learn from them aka Night elf subrace idea.

High elves is just a thing on it's own with no inetresting parts or missing pieces anymore, Sunwell is restored story moves on. we never got an update to Quel'danas and the sunwell how Blood elves and High elves have pilgrims of both back with the Quel'delar chain.


Another analogy to the circle is a sphere of the earth along longitu... dude I don't even know what your saying here with the last bit..just to much text for me here..

the first paragraph was in response to you, I moved on from there, speaking in general, but it's not hard to follow
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