Russia says it has foiled Ukrainian 'terror attack' plot in Crimea, two Russians died

[May90]

Proper empires care for what they claim. Look at Grozny when it was "pacified" in Chechen wars and look at it now... now look at Iraq... feel the difference.

Chechnya... In which freedom index is 7/7/7, just like in North Korea, right? Yeah, I think I'll pass this kind of care.

[Crispin]

You tell us, we're still trying to figure out what purpose Russia is trying to fulfill in eastern Ukraine, tanking your economy? Sending soldiers on vacation? Making sure Putin doesnt have to sing poorly infront of laughing hollywood celebs? Tbh if invasions were predictable, we would have..... Prevented them.

[Aggrophobic]

Offer alternatives.

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If it's war then you declare it.

You know, international law and all. Or maybe you see nothing wrong with Islamic terrorists doing terror acts in Europe which destroyed their countries too? (Libya was French idea, for example, even if US did the most heavy lifting)

France or the US did not take over Libya though.

[Shalcker]

Is iraq part of an empire?

That's exactly the problem. US and EU fight wars where you're not ready to own and care for what you actually won.

Oh we're bringing in the US in to compare? Well how about look at s.korea vs n. Kore, japan,

Those (South Korea, Japan) are examples of proper imperialism as it was practised in 1950. When people understood that investing in fallen enemies is how you should approach winning - after disastrous results of trying to bleed Germany dry that led to WW2.

It's too bad that West forgot this approach, instead going for exploitation of refugee flows to solve their labour problems while leaving destroyed countries to rot.

It still doesnt say anything about why you'd support a crap system, if you're too chickenshit to be against it (is that even allowed on the internt anymore in russia?), just sit it out, no need to get on the losertrain just because there arent others around.

Staying on top means constant effort. We need those surrounding countries to expand our markets and prop up our relevance in future negotiations.

If Ukraine will admit defeat we might help rebuild them too.
But if they want to play rivals then we're quite willing to beat anything they care to wager.

[May90]

That's exactly the problem. US and EU fight wars where you're not ready to own and care for what you actually won.

This isn't Europa Universalis, Shalcker. It is not about winning territories. The fact that you still mentally live in the 17th century doesn't mean this is how the world works today.

[Shalcker]

Chechnya... In which freedom index is 7/7/7, just like in North Korea, right? Yeah, I think I'll pass this kind of care.

As opposed to 6/6/6 Iraq ... so much of improvement, no bias at all! :P

[May90]

As opposed to 6/6/6 Iraq ... you might rethink it :P

6/6/6 is better than 7/7/7, lol; the lower, the better. 7/7/7 is the worst combination possible in that index.

Plus, Iraq isn't the US territory, so your comparison doesn't even make sense.

[Shalcker]

6/6/6 is better than 7/7/7, lol; the lower, the better.

Plus, Iraq isn't the US territory, so your comparison doesn't even make sense.

Again, that's the problem with US wars, not a positive thing.

[Crispin]

Spoken like someone living early in the last century, colour me surprised. Btw the EU havent fought any wars and the rather outdated mindset you seem to promote cause wars.

I guess we should use the Russian approach, of turning previous allies into enemies by beeing simpletons.

[May90]

Again, that's the problem with US wars, not a positive thing.

Not a positive thing that they don't annex the territories they fight on?

You are so far gone, dude... I think deep inside you realize that you are disconnected from reality, but maybe you are afraid to admit to others and yourself that you've been wrong all this time?

[Crispin]

Btw any proof of the conspiracy theory of an ukranian action, or is it still just "FSB says"? Call of duty screenshots perhaps?

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Out of interest may90, do some russians buy into the propaganda because they hope it's true? I can imagine rejecting it, would also require that they realise that their system isnt working for them, but simply to make sure, that the ones in power stays in power.

[Shalcker]

Spoken like someone living early in the last century, colour me surprised. Btw the EU havent fought any wars and the rather outdated mindset you seem to promote cause wars.

Well, France and UK did, okay, technically not EU as an entity.

I guess we should use the Russian approach, of turning previous allies into enemies by beeing simpletons.

But you're doing it anyway, check Turkey :P

[Crispin]

Well, France and UK did, okay, technically not EU as an entity.

But you're doing it anyway, check Turkey :P

Check Turkey? Are we talking about the Erdogan who shot down a Russian jet? The turkish strategic location and military is important, but other than that, Turkey is run by a crackpot who is worse than Putin in every aspect, imho the west should ditch Turkey untill the simpleton erdogan is gone, its ironic that him and putin have some kind of love/hate relationship going on, I swear its lile watching a marriage.

And far from the EU did, you might wanna look up on how many countries the EU consist of "uk, france" is less than 10% of the countries.

[Shalcker]

Out of interest may90, do some russians buy into the propaganda because they hope it's true? I can imagine rejecting it, would also require that they realise that their system isnt working for them, but simply to make sure, that the ones in power stays in power.

Well, you realise that requires system actually not working for them?

Because as it happens it works for me. Not everyone wants to change powers every few years; and having it didn't stop US from sliding into oligarchy too.

[May90]

Out of interest may90, do some russians buy into the propaganda because they hope it's true? I can imagine rejecting it, would also require that they realise that their system isnt working for them, but simply to make sure, that the ones in power stays in power.

I don't know the reasons well, honestly, but I would think that it is a natural mechanism of coping. Life in Russia is not fancy for the vast majority of people, there is a lot of negativity, depression, hopelessness around. In these conditions, it is convenient to blame someone else for these problems (in this case, the West), and to believe that the current ruler is doing everything he can to fix it and is succeeding. The system plays on this weakness, it offers a narrative which is supported by the population, because sweet delusions are easier than facing harsh truth.

Dictatorships are very similar to each other. I used to think, long time ago, that the leaders in them push propaganda through a thick layer of resistance and somehow succeed at that. Now I tend to think that people themselves want to be coerced.

[Shalcker]

Check Turkey? Are we talking about the Erdogan who shot down a Russian jet? The turkish strategic location and military is important, but other than that, Turkey is run by a crackpot who is worse than Putin in every aspect, imho the west should ditch Turkey untill the simpleton erdogan is gone, its ironic that him and putin have some kind of love/hate relationship going on, I swear its lile watching a marriage.

Well, you'd be surprised but there are lots of people who said we should ditch Ukraine too (after coup)!

...and we did.

Which is how we got to present situation.

[Crispin]

Well, you realise that requires system actually not working for them?

Because as it happens it works for me. Not everyone wants to change powers every few years; and having it didn't stop US from sliding into oligarchy too.

Enjoying that shitty cheese?

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Well, you'd be surprised but there are lots of people who said we should ditch Ukraine too (after coup)!

...and we did.

Which is how we got to present situation.

Youre confusing ditch with invade, Turkey wont find a better offer than what it currently has, Erdogan is using Putin like a wife uses an obvious lover on the side.

[Shibito]

Next thing the US should stage some US citizens claiming to be canadian attacking US buildings to invade canada! DOwn with terrance and phillip!

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And i really missed your posting Shalcker our own kremlin paid fake norwegians arent close to the real thing as yourself.

[Shalcker]

Enjoying that shitty cheese?

There are enough varieties of cheese to my liking, thank you

Too bad that milk production can't actually satisfy increased demand from cheeses, but oh well, some brands are still good enough.

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Youre confusing ditch with invade, Turkey wont find a better offer than what it currently has, Erdogan is using Putin like a wife uses an obvious lover on the side.

Well, Ukraine also couldn't find better offer... then coup happened and they lost it.

Also, you think Turkey ditching NATO would mean nothing similar? No support for "Independent Kurdistan"? Haha, very funny.

[Shibito]

There are enough varieties of cheese to my liking, thank you

Too bad that milk production can't actually satisfy increased demand from cheeses, but oh well, some brands are still good enough.

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Well, Ukraine also couldn't find better offer... then coup happened and they lost it.

Also, you think Turkey ditching NATO would mean nothing similar? No support for "Independent Kurdistan"? No increased condemnations of Kurds oppression? Haha, very funny.

They lost it? Except crimea who Russia took at gun point Ukraine isnt russian so thats a win for them.