Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Effinhunter]

Cant you have a 895 legendary?

All of these legendary upgrades are 895. What I'm saying is that I'm using 840 gear as baseline, so upgrading one slot with a 895 is a big upgrade, even without the extra effect.

[Deleted]

All of these legendary upgrades are 895. What I'm saying is that I'm using 840 gear as baseline, so upgrading one slot with a 895 is a big upgrade, even without the extra effect.

Oh k, my bad then.

[dexx]

All of these legendary upgrades are 895. What I'm saying is that I'm using 840 gear as baseline, so upgrading one slot with a 895 is a big upgrade, even without the extra effect.

Hopefully 'valor' and the ability to use it for ring upgrades will continue after Legion launches.

[Feanoro]

Anything legendary ring related is gone after launch. In-progress quests, upgrade items, etc.

[Deleted]

When was Aspect of the Eagle nerfed? Pretty sure it used to be 100% increased chance for mongoose bite procs , now its 25%.

[Keltas]

When was Aspect of the Eagle nerfed? Pretty sure it used to be 100% increased chance for mongoose bite procs , now its 25%.

It used to have a tooltip that referenced 100% increase of whatever mastery you had. That was corrected as a tooltip error the other day in a hotfix.


According to the hotfix, it's worked this way for a long time.

[Deleted]

It used to have a tooltip that referenced 100% increase of whatever mastery you had. That was corrected as a tooltip error the other day in a hotfix.


According to the hotfix, it's worked this way for a long time.

Oh I see , thank you.

[keygy]

anyone knows if the bleed from aspect of the beast procs from hati?

[Kissthebaby]

anyone knows if the bleed from aspect of the beast procs from hati?

Why don't you go test it on beta? That's right you don't have beta, yet you can make an assumption on what spec is better based on sims in this thread. Spare me. And no it doesn't.

[Effinhunter]

Race Stratification (840 ilvl, Mythic Dungeons)

All tests: single target, 450s, 20% dev, 10k iterations

BM, Single Target (Simcraft source)


MM, Single Target (Simcraft source)


SV, Single Target (Simcraft source)



The food sims were pretty much what you would expect. Mastery food for MM and BM also had it up there with fully upgraded artifact and 840 ilvl gear. Unfortunately, simcraft did not have at least three foods implemented, so I had to use custom stats on an item for one of the mastery foods (you can see this in the Simcraft source files below). The two foods that produce damage spells also are not modeled in Simcraft yet (at least, the item was failing in Simcraft). As soon as I have functioning models of the two damage-proc foods, I'll add them back to the food sims.

Food sim sources:
BM: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/bm/bm_food.simc
MM: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/mm/mm_food.simc
SV: http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/sv/sv_food.simc

My mm_food.simc was producing some really weird results for Orc, so I'm not posting the images of that just yet. I probably won't have time to look more into that until later in the week.

- - - Updated - - -

anyone knows if the bleed from aspect of the beast procs from hati?

Kiss is right about the bleed only triggering on main pet kill commands right now. You can see how this is implemented in Simcraft here:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...nter.cpp#L1875

[Echion]

Thanks for all if your recent work here Effin! Blindly following that other guy made me uneasy. You've been a staple of hunter community for as long as I can remember.

Hopefully we'll have some more concrete Sims to figure out what's best closer to launch.

[Azortharion]

Staple, except his sims' foundation (the base profile) has nothing to do with reality and thus the completely unusable when we're talking small differences like racials.

[Effinhunter]

There really is no need to form lines in the sand about any of this. Forum drama is just forum drama. It literally does not matter.

At the end of the day, what each of you should do is look at all of the information available to you and most importantly, once logs are going public, follow people's logs. If you are worried about your damage, then do a break down of casts from top hunters. See how your rotation and reactions are differing from theirs. Your kill times are going to be different. Don't worry about that too much; just understand that a positive/right-skewed curve (i.e., a damage curve that has a high initial burst that tapers off and goes down over time) means that average dps goes up as your kill time gets shorter. In other words, if they have shorter kill times, their average dps SHOULD be higher than yours if the graph is right-skewed.

Check people's guides, certainly, but if you notice major differences between sequences of casts in a top Warcraftlog and what you're being told, follow the log. Try to understand why that top hunter is doing what they're doing. One of the breakdowns I like to do is the cast timeline breakdown. For instance, one of Alandi's recent Iron Reaver logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline

You can see that he's taking Crows because of the fight length, and he's fitting in as many Marked Shots as he can within that initial ring. You can use these same kinds of timelines to look at how top hunters are doing AoE bursts/phases. You can use replays to look at positioning. You can use such a replay or analysis to make suggestions to your raid leader, potentially, to get in better positions and strats to get better parses and be more effective. Most raid leaders appreciate suggestions like these outside of raid time and generally in private. Keep that in mind.

Simulations will get you to a certain point in just understanding theoretical possibilities, but no one should be using simulations or guides as their only research tool. Logs are the best resource. Talking to top hunters, if they're willing to share information, is another great method to better understanding what you should be doing. If you can do math, great. But understand that sometimes tooltips lie, that your analysis may suck, and you really shouldn't be operating in a vacuum without feedback from other hunters.

Just my two cents.

[Azortharion]

Yeah, "top hunter" except the part where he fucks up and focus caps because he genuinely has no idea what he has doing other than wanting to get 4 markeds in a ring, which he could've done without possibly losing out on an Aimed Shot like he did.

Top logs are occupied mostly by well-geared half-brains for whom the stars aligned. You could find hundreds of logs that would beat that parse with the same killtime, and another hundred parses that would beat those. Analyzing logs in the prepatch is bordering on complete idiocy. While you can look at logs of good people, "good people" shouldn't be whatever idiot is rank 1 on a boss that took 18 seconds to kill, they should be people where you know for a fact that they know what they are talking about. If someone talks the shop on a forum and then also does really fucking well consistently, that's a hint. Sadly, you rarely get someone who both parses and plays well, and knows what they are talking about in a forum setting.

[Littlebags]

I didn't notice gnome or did i miss it?

[Effinhunter]

If you look at the Simcraft source file, I have commented out gnome out of habit. I can certainly run them again with gnome enabled, if you're curious.

[Littlebags]

If you look at the Simcraft source file, I have commented out gnome out of habit. I can certainly run them again with gnome enabled, if you're curious.

Definitely interested, since i'm currently playing gnome on my BM hunter.Also my offer about the site still stands.

[Effinhunter]

BM with gnome:


MM with gnome:


SV with gnome:


Gnome isn't bad. Orc is unfortunately even higher than the others if you adjust the fight length downward (these sims are at 450s with 20% deviation, as you move the fight length toward the duration of the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=33697, it's pretty ridiculous, which will come into play during farm after progression is over).

For example, here's BM with that same 840 ilvl but only a 20s fight.


Orc is a bit overtuned for BM, imo--not really based on this 20s fight, but the fact that it's an obvious outlier in 450s fights posted earlier.

[Littlebags]

Thanks for re-running the sims.

[eScar95]

TFW Undead looks the best but sims the lowest on your favorite spec.