What's up with Jainas attitude towards the horde all of the sudden?(Invasion Spoiler)

[lockybalboa]

Her hatred towards the Horde is COMPLETELY justifiable.

[Eon Drache]

No, it wouldn't have. They should have retreated together, with Sylvanas' forces providing support until the Alliance force was save. Hell, Varian himself could have been saved by a Val'kyr had Sylvanas not made the decision to save only the Horde.



That really doesn't matter. You do not abandon your allies to save your own ass. If you need to retreat, inform your allies. Don't just leave. It's cowardice to the fullest. There's no strategy to it. The Horde chose for the survival of the Horde, not of Azeroth. Divided once more. Two dead leaders, one probably didn't have to had the Horde stayed a little longer to secure the save retreat of the Alliance.

The Horde: Victory or death! Lies.

Jaina was too busy crying over Tirion to teleport Varian and herself out of there. Put the blame on that bitch.

[Cannibalus]

She's been at odds with the Horde for quite a while now. This just is the final nail in the coffin. Varian's coffin. But, can you really blame her after that cowardice retreat of the Horde?

When Vol'Jin says "don't let the Horde die this day" it means "retreat NOW" in swahili, or some other language cuz you seem to not understand it properly. She was also reluctant to blow the horn if you check the horde video, but an order is an order.

[mysticx]

When Vol'Jin says "don't let the Horde die this day" it means "retreat NOW" in swahili, or some other language cuz you seem to not understand it properly. She was also reluctant to blow the horn if you check the horde video, but an order is an order.

I actually think it's really good how Blizz made the two cinematics, from the Alliance one it just seems like a cowardly retreat, maybe even being handed to the Legion on a silver platter by Sylvanas (If that's all you know, plenty of reason to feel betrayed yet again by the Horde), and the Horde one fills in what the Alliance doesn't know and really gives you that "They didn't stand much of a chance up there"-vibe, we as players have probably all seen both cinematics and know the full story, but Alliance NPCs haven't seen the Horde cinematic on YouTube...

[Vynny]

the horde attacked ashenvale first man, garrosh was the one that broke the truce, and then he commited like 50 thousand war crimes in the following two years, so yeah jaina should be pissed, and not at herself.

The truce between Theramore and the Horde was just that. Between Theramore and the Horde. Ashenvale had nothing to do with it. Like I said in another post, Jaina breaking Theramore's truce with the Horde may have been influenced by the Horde's invasion of Ashenvale and maybe even Jaina personally thought that Garrosh wouldn't honor the truce that she struck with the Horde while Thrall was in charge, but the person that fired the first shot and broke the truce between Theramore and the Horde was Jaina when she let the Alliance use Theramore as a launching point for the Alliance's invasion of the Barrens.

Also, what war crimes? is there a world court in Azeroth or some sort of treaty that prohibits certain acts of war that was agreed to by the Horde and Alliance? No, there isn't. I mean seriously, how do you break a law that hasn't been written yet? You can't. Now did Garrosh do terrible things? Yes. Does that mean that Jaina is an innocent victim in all of this despite her betraying the Horde first not only once, but twice? No. Do two wrongs make a right? No. So all in all, yes Garrosh committed atrocities and was rightfully condemned for those things, but Jaina led her people to ruin by betraying the Horde and painting a target on Theramore, and then she put the Sunreavers in a position where they had to choose between the Kirin Tor and the Horde because Jaina was helping the Alliance as the Leader of the Kirin Tor.

If Jaina hadn't have allowed the Alliance to use Theramore as a launching point for their invasions then Garrosh may not have attacked Theramore or at the very least may not have dropped a mana bomb on it. If Jaina had kept the Kirin Tor out of the fight over the Divine Bell then the Sunreaver's wouldn't have had to betray the Kirin Tor for the Horde because they wouldn't have needed those inside the Kirin Tor to help them steal it. Now mind you, neither Garrosh nor the Horde knew that Varian decided against using it based on Anduin's council, so the Divine Bell in Alliance hands was seen as the Alliance gaining a powerful weapon over the Horde rather than them safeguarding a WMD so that it would never be used.

So all in all:

two wrongs don't make a right

Yes, Garrosh was an asshole who committed numerous atrocities

Jaina's a selfish bitch who isn't willing to take responsibility for her decisions that betrayed the Horde and resulted in her people being killed and her being betrayed.

[thilicen]

Getting nuked would probably generate some hostility.

[Deianeira]

No, it wouldn't have. They should have retreated together, with Sylvanas' forces providing support until the Alliance force was save. Hell, Varian himself could have been saved by a Val'kyr had Sylvanas not made the decision to save only the Horde.



That really doesn't matter. You do not abandon your allies to save your own ass. If you need to retreat, inform your allies. Don't just leave. It's cowardice to the fullest. There's no strategy to it. The Horde chose for the survival of the Horde, not of Azeroth. Divided once more. Two dead leaders, one probably didn't have to had the Horde stayed a little longer to secure the save retreat of the Alliance.

The Horde: Victory or death! Lies.

So what you say is that the Horde should have sacrificed all of their leadership to stay and save Varian?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still helping your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

Comeon do you really think it is brave to die for NOTHING? Really?

[Aquamonkey]

garrosh didnt know jaina evacuated so for all intents and purposes he did do the same thing, hell she only barely managed to do it, if not for baine she wouldnt have even had a shot, garrosh was gonna basically ambush them

Garrosh parked his army and navy in plain view of Theramore for several days before he attacked. He wanted to be seen, he wasn't ambushing them. Baine's warning to Jaina didn't do anything.

[death604]

jaina's wasn't enraged because the horde is attacking theramore, she was still alright when she decided to visit the remains of theramore in fact she even said to kalec that she has to bear the responsibility of what happened to theramore "there's only me, and my decisions, and responsibility for those corpses back there"

she got enraged because the horde used the mana bomb to literally turn everyone into dust. when jaina got enraged she said "it wasn't war, it wasn't even murder,this is obliteration, done at a comfortable distance. killing in the most brutal and cowardly fashion"


so no, horde fangay faggots. it doesn't matter whether theramore is a strategic target or not because jaina accepted that fact(hence she was bearing the responsibility of the decisions she made, and the deaths in theramore).

That's not how I recall it happening. Didn't Garrosh amass his forces and wait outside the city for like a week while the citizens were evacuated and the Alliance military was brought in to reinforce Theramore? Then he launched the surprise mana bomb attack and decimated their army, and most of its leadership, in one fell swoop.

just like you said he waited because he wants all the high ranking alliance to be at the same spot to decimate them in one fell swoop, but garrosh never said he's waiting for the civilians to evacuate or something. in fact the civilians that were evacuating were captured and tortured to death.

[Aquamonkey]

just like you said he waited because he wants all the high ranking alliance to be at the same spot to decimate them in one fell swoop, but garrosh never said he's waiting for the civilians to evacuate or something. in fact the civilians that were evacuating were captured and tortured to death.

That happened later and somewhere else. The ship with civilians was allowed to leave Theramore.

[Cyram]

I think its classy that for Jaina to talk about betrayal when she personaly is a expert on it. 1) she said to Arthas she loves him and will never deny or betray him. Next day she abandod Arthas right in front of Stratholme and after even though se promised no to tell ANYBODY she tells Uther that Arthas went to Northrend. When you betray the person you "love" that hugely and in short time it proves you are not to be trusted. Secondly she betrayed her own father to the Horde. Even though is was for peace she betrayed two of them most importan men in her life in short time and doing the worst betrayal she could do for them. She also left her mentor to be killed by her ex lover.

It's also classy the fact that she thought her actions that were pro-Alliance (even though she claimed Theramore had a peace treatise with the Horde), to the point that there were some Theramore forces scouting Durotar and having plans to invade it, would go unnoticed by Garrosh, a crazy pro-Horde, pro-Orcs kinda Warchief that was all about securing the win.
She screams that the Horde is evil, yet she's a backstabbing, treacherous little bitch that tries to act all good, but isn't.

So, in a few words, she was acting all Pro-Alliance and thought the Horde would do nothing to her, and when she got rekt she just lost it and stated out loud what everybody else already knew: she hates the horde and wants what's best only for the Alliance.

[Lochton]

Garrosh parked his army and navy in plain view of Theramore for several days before he attacked. He wanted to be seen, he wasn't ambushing them. Baine's warning to Jaina didn't do anything.

Actually, he did still ambush. He was waiting for the airship to make its way down.

[Deleted]

If Jaina had kept the Kirin Tor out of the fight over the Divine Bell then the Sunreaver's wouldn't have had to betray the Kirin Tor for the Horde because they wouldn't have needed those inside the Kirin Tor to help them steal it. Now mind you, neither Garrosh nor the Horde knew that Varian decided against using it based on Anduin's council, so the Divine Bell in Alliance hands was seen as the Alliance gaining a powerful weapon over the Horde rather than them safeguarding a WMD so that it would never be used.

Wtf are you even talking about? The events of Landfall were like this:

1. Varian asked Jaina to remove the blood elves from Dalaran, but she refused in order to maintain the Kirin Tor neutrality.
2. The night elven sentinels got their hands on the Divine Bell in Kun’lai before the Horde. They secured it and brought it to Darnassus.
3. Jaina increased the magical defenses of Darnassus, in order to safeguard it, which isn’t exactly something bad – additionally no one knew that she was there so..
4. The Sunreavers abused the portal network (which is forbidden) snuck into Darnassus and stole the Divine Bell.
5. Jaina investigated and reacted with the purge.

So the Horde couldn’t know Jaina was involved in safeguarding, and nevertheless they broke the rules and thus got expelled. Yes, the whole Divine Bell incident was done by a single? Sunreaver. However, so was the Mana Bomb and the betrayal in Theramore and the blood elves did nothing to clear that up. Actually quite the opposite as Thalen resided in Silvermoon City afterwards, nor did they hand out the Sunreaver who broke the rules with the theft.

[Pull My Finger]

She's way hotter since she's been hating the Horde. What's not to like?

[Statix]

Scenario: your friend is being beaten by one guy while you are being beaten by two guys. Do you:

A) Run away, save your own ass and let your friend suffer the conscequence of your cowardice, or
B) Help your friend and make a run for it together, possible risking a bigger beating.

She didn't have to sacrifce all Horde leadership. There were plenty of footsoldiers she could have ordered to help the Alliance retreat. Had there been a Horde leader down there, they would have helped him/her. Seeing as there was not, they were free to care only about their own ass. Selfish, and cowardice. No loyalty, no honor.

Dying for nothing has nothing to do with being brave. Being brave is running into a fiery building to save a life at the risk of your own life.

[Deleted]

Scenario: your friend is being beaten by one guy while you are being beaten by two guys. Do you:

A) Run away, save your own ass and let your friend suffer the conscequence of your cowardice, or
B) Help your friend and make a run for it together, possible risking a bigger beating.

She didn't have to sacrifce all Horde leadership. There were plenty of footsoldiers she could have ordered to help the Alliance retreat. Had there been a Horde leader down there, they would have helped him/her. Seeing as there was not, they were free to care only about their own ass. Selfish, and cowardice. No loyalty, no honor.

Dying for nothing has nothing to do with being brave. Being brave is running into a fiery building to save a life at the risk of your own life.

Horde was clearly weaker from the earlier war as it was. Them sacrificing more because Alliance wasn't capable of having an awareness of their surroundings is their own fault.

[caervek]

Thrall dumped her for a brown orc between WotLK/Cata, she took it hard.

[xso111]

tbh the one saying jaina was bitch or shit are people who are either horde fans, or guys who hasn't even read ToD book because in ToD we can clearly see what jaina's thoughts were in regards to the actions she did.

[death604]

It's also classy the fact that she thought her actions that were pro-Alliance (even though she claimed Theramore had a peace treatise with the Horde), to the point that there were some Theramore forces scouting Durotar and having plans to invade it, would go unnoticed by Garrosh, a crazy pro-Horde, pro-Orcs kinda Warchief that was all about securing the win.
She screams that the Horde is evil, yet she's a backstabbing, treacherous little bitch that tries to act all good, but isn't.

So, in a few words, she was acting all Pro-Alliance and thought the Horde would do nothing to her, and when she got rekt she just lost it and stated out loud what everybody else already knew: she hates the horde and wants what's best only for the Alliance.

kairozdormu pave the way for garrosh's escape, so does that make nozdormu a treacherous son of a bitch? that's bullshit logic horde faggot.

a 20 year old man raped a woman, so that man's father is a treacherous son of a bitch? lol

[Mehrunes]

The horde nuke his city and aethas betray his position in the kirin tor to help garrosh making jaina go enrage and now the loss in the front of broken shore(brillant idea attack demons while there is a GIANT PORTAL over there)

Jaina betrayed her position in the Kirin Tor to play favorites with the Alliance first. And then abused her position some more by going behind the Council's back with the purge and even used outside troops to carry it out.

You are right, it was a elf called Fanlyr, i confuse with aethas.

Technically, we don't know if it was Fanlyr that was Garrosh' agent in Sunreavers for sure.