I hope the RNG from the current BG win boxes isn't a preview of whats to come at 110

[Dizzeeyooo]

If there is a currency then you will be able to choose what you want to buy

the marks of honor currency is for purchasing legacy pvp sets for transmog

the general honor currency is for grinding honor talents, and becomes absolutely useless after a month or so if you are not planning to prestiege

all lvl 110 pvp gear comes from rng ashran style boxes, there is no choice involved

[Deleted]

There is no progression for the vast majority of PVP players in PVP. Enjoy the dead queues.

Yep, because random loot has made people not care about PVE from 2005.

Oh wait.

[xpose]

There is no progression for the vast majority of PVP players in PVP. Enjoy the dead queues.

There has never been any casual progression in pvp since they got rid of the honor leveling at the end of Vanilla and you have to be trolling if you think PVP will ever have dead queues.


Without knowing the gear stats from mythic and top end rated brackets its kinda hard to tell which will be better since blizzard has already stated the top brackets in pvp will have mythic style gear.

[Kagthul]

Just means this isn't the only avenue you will need to participate in to get gear. on a good battlegroup it will probably take less than a week to gear up which is a hell of a lot faster than it was before

a week is faster than six hours?

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If there is a currency then you will be able to choose what you want to buy.

It ISNT currency. It's experience for your honor levels.

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There has never been any casual progression in pvp since they got rid of the honor leveling at the end of Vanilla and you have to be trolling if you think PVP will ever have dead queues.

... uhh.. wat?

As a relatively casual player, i could get a full set of the best PvP gear without having to obtain any rating, or do a form of PvP i dont enjoy.

That's casual progression.

The new system will have NO progression for casuals, because unless you get over ~1750 rating (which by literal design, less than 20% of PvPers CAN) the gear you get is inferior in iLevel to basic Mythic Dungeon gear. Even then it is merely equal until you exceed ~2k rating (which, by design, less than 10% of players CAN achieve no matter how good they are) at which point... LFR gets you similar iLevel rewards. You have to be 2100+ to get gear as good as Heroic Raids and 2200+ to get Mythic rewards...

And you can only get THAT if you do RATED PvP - which most people dont, and dont want to. They just want to mix it up in a casual BG.... and the best way for almost 90% of the PvP player base to do that is... Mythic Dungeons and LFR, which will reward them better gear for PvP than they can ever earn through PvP, particularly if they dont do rated (non-rated PvP just rewards gear equal to Heroic Dungeons). And this is without even taking into account Titanforged.

And all of that gear you DO get through PvP? Its inferior to the PvE gear for questing/world quests anyway - because PvE gear has better stat allocations on it (all PvP gear has Vers + Stat; PvE gear can have two beneficial stats) and set bonuses. And the trinkets can have cool effects, where the PvP trinkets are just iLevel placeholders, basically.

For 90% of the PvP playerbase (and ALL of it - the majority of people who PvP at endgame - that doesn't do rated PvP) the best way to get good higher iLevel gear to up your stat template for PvP is...

PvE.

[Deleted]

so mythic raid gear will be better for pvp than pvp gear or is thier going to be pvp gear that is the same ilvl as mythic raid gear?? if not them people at blizz need to go and give thier heads a shake

[Deleted]

so mythic raid gear will be better for pvp than pvp gear or is thier going to be pvp gear that is the same ilvl as mythic raid gear?? if not them people at blizz need to go and give thier heads a shake

As far as I understood, the PvP gear can go up to the same item level, but you need to have a certain rating for it. For example winning stuff in the beginning most likely yields only basic gear. But if you PvP a lot, chances are there is higher ilvl loot in the boxes.

[Deleted]

Guess I was wrong about the honor buying gear, it may be random loot boxes. In theory you may be able to gear up quicker but I don't think it is a better system.

As for wpvp, let it be chaos, if PvP gear will not be the best it is no loss as that is just part of the fun.

[xpose]

a week is faster than six hours?

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It ISNT currency. It's experience for your honor levels.

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... uhh.. wat?

As a relatively casual player, i could get a full set of the best PvP gear without having to obtain any rating, or do a form of PvP i dont enjoy.

That's casual progression.

The new system will have NO progression for casuals, because unless you get over ~1750 rating (which by literal design, less than 20% of PvPers CAN) the gear you get is inferior in iLevel to basic Mythic Dungeon gear. Even then it is merely equal until you exceed ~2k rating (which, by design, less than 10% of players CAN achieve no matter how good they are) at which point... LFR gets you similar iLevel rewards. You have to be 2100+ to get gear as good as Heroic Raids and 2200+ to get Mythic rewards...

And you can only get THAT if you do RATED PvP - which most people dont, and dont want to. They just want to mix it up in a casual BG.... and the best way for almost 90% of the PvP player base to do that is... Mythic Dungeons and LFR, which will reward them better gear for PvP than they can ever earn through PvP, particularly if they dont do rated (non-rated PvP just rewards gear equal to Heroic Dungeons). And this is without even taking into account Titanforged.

And all of that gear you DO get through PvP? Its inferior to the PvE gear for questing/world quests anyway - because PvE gear has better stat allocations on it (all PvP gear has Vers + Stat; PvE gear can have two beneficial stats) and set bonuses. And the trinkets can have cool effects, where the PvP trinkets are just iLevel placeholders, basically.

For 90% of the PvP playerbase (and ALL of it - the majority of people who PvP at endgame - that doesn't do rated PvP) the best way to get good higher iLevel gear to up your stat template for PvP is...

PvE.

Casual players should not have access to the best gear, just like casual raiders should not have access to Mythic Gear. Sitting AFK in BG's or Ashran and still being able to gear out on the best gear is not and was not quality progression.

Normal BG warforged gear will be on par with LFR and Mythic +, but I'm not sure why a Casual PvPer would care about getting gear in PvP. Casual players should be rejoicing that they no longer have to store two sets of gear of in their inventory.

[Mafic]

There has never been any casual progression in pvp since they got rid of the honor leveling at the end of Vanilla and you have to be trolling if you think PVP will ever have dead queues.


Without knowing the gear stats from mythic and top end rated brackets its kinda hard to tell which will be better since blizzard has already stated the top brackets in pvp will have mythic style gear.

We already know the gears stats from Legion gear.

And random BG's had a progression path even if it was slower or it offered lower tier gear. Now, that is all gone and players are at the mercy of RNG boxes.So, even IF you WIN you still can end up with a dud at the end of a game.

Participation in randoms and rated PVP nose dived in WotLk when they made PVE heroics and raids faceroll. Legion PVE heroics and LFR is faceroll and offers better gear. Period.

If you say otherwise you never played WotLK.

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so mythic raid gear will be better for pvp than pvp gear or is thier going to be pvp gear that is the same ilvl as mythic raid gear?? if not them people at blizz need to go and give thier heads a shake

Mythic gear will be better than most PVP gear you can obtain. The amount of PVP players that will have mythic level gear will be less than 1 percent while mythic raiders make up at least ten percent of the player population on PVE side of the game.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Can you buy gear with Marks of honor? I think Mark of honor is way better than old honor, helps prevent afk honor farms, etc.

[Fkiolaris]

Can you buy gear with Marks of honor? I think Mark of honor is way better than old honor, helps prevent afk honor farms, etc.

In Legion the only gear you can buy via currency is cosmetic (and some crafted up to a point that is below LFR gear if I am correct). As such, for most people their gearing path is entirely at the mercy of RNG.

[Kagthul]

Casual players should not have access to the best gear,

Why? Particularly for PvP where skill is supposed to be greater than gear. Its not like i could get the gear for the same effort - it was considerably harder to get CQ gear from just doing random BGs.

Point is, you COULD. There was a progression path for you if you were casual. Now... there isn't.

just like casual raiders should not have access to Mythic Gear.

Again... why? (And this is not a matter of "should not" - they do, plain and simple).

Sitting AFK in BG's or Ashran and still being able to gear out on the best gear is not and was not quality progression.

Only person that mentioned that was you. Quit projecting your ASSumptions onto the argument.

Normal BG warforged gear will be on par with LFR and Mythic +

No it will not. Normal BG Gear (unrated, casual BGs) rewards gear that is the same iLevel as Heroic Dungeons. If it can come Warforged, that will only add 6 ilevels. It wll still be vasty inferior to the gear you get from World Quests, much less other sources.

but I'm not sure why a Casual PvPer would care about getting gear in PvP. Casual players should be rejoicing that they no longer have to store two sets of gear of in their inventory.

Allow me to translate how you sound:

"You, the vast majority, should be happy with the table scraps we, the chosen few, deign to let fall on the floor".

Us casuals pay the bills, son. We like to progress too. In the end here, the people that dont matter are the hardcores. They aren't keeping the lights on and the profits coming in. Continuing to cater to hardcores is a sure way to keep watching the sub numbers plummet.

There's also no worthwhile progression for most of the Rated PvPers, either. Because of how the rating system works (its a pyramid where only a certain % of active players can EVER have a certain rating), even people who are doing rated PvP are better off doing Mythic Dungeons, Mythic+ dungeons, and LFR to get their gear, because it is better than anything they can get even from rated PvP unless they are in the top ~9% of players.

[Deleted]

Casual players should not have access to the best gear, just like casual raiders should not have access to Mythic Gear. Sitting AFK in BG's or Ashran and still being able to gear out on the best gear is not and was not quality progression.

Normal BG warforged gear will be on par with LFR and Mythic +, but I'm not sure why a Casual PvPer would care about getting gear in PvP. Casual players should be rejoicing that they no longer have to store two sets of gear of in their inventory.

yes but then someone who raids mythic and only pvps now and then will have the advantage of someone who pvps just in normal bgs all the time and its not right its retarded that pve gear will be better for pvp than pve gear its bullshit u get full geared mythic raiders in a bg they have +% more stats and not even wearing pvp gear?? and people think that is right?????

[Caolela]

...

No it will not. Normal BG Gear (unrated, casual BGs) rewards gear that is the same iLevel as Heroic Dungeons. If it can come Warforged, that will only add 6 ilevels. It wll still be vasty inferior to the gear you get from World Quests, much less other sources.



Allow me to translate how you sound:

"You, the vast majority, should be happy with the table scraps we, the chosen few, deign to let fall on the floor".

Us casuals pay the bills, son. We like to progress too. In the end here, the people that dont matter are the hardcores. They aren't keeping the lights on and the profits coming in. Continuing to cater to hardcores is a sure way to keep watching the sub numbers plummet.

There's also no worthwhile progression for most of the Rated PvPers, either. Because of how the rating system works (its a pyramid where only a certain % of active players can EVER have a certain rating), even people who are doing rated PvP are better off doing Mythic Dungeons, Mythic+ dungeons, and LFR to get their gear, because it is better than anything they can get even from rated PvP unless they are in the top ~9% of players.

Absolutely.

I'll give it about a month or so after Legion hits, when reality will start to set in and PvP'ers will discover just how shitty this xpac is. PvP subs will sink like a stone once again a la WoD.

Smart people already unsubbed and aren't buying the xpac.

[Wildpantz]

Youll get honor towars pvp ranks 1-50. Then there is prestige and tons of skins to work towards. And ofc there is gear but its random they way pve have had it forever.

[jSewell]

Whole lot of entitlement in here. If you're a casual, why do you need the "best" gear for unranked pvp? Just so when the random 2.4k mythic geared player kills you that you can't blame the 3% increase in stats they have over you? You're not entitled to everything in the game through your small, limited facet of interests. For too long, Blizzard has pandered to the "casuals" in the name appeasing the players while in reality subscriber numbers continue to dwindle.

Sincerely, someone who did no rated pvp or raiding above LFR through all of WoD and doesn't care if people have shinier pixels than me.

[Kagthul]

Whole lot of entitlement in here. If you're a casual, why do you need the "best" gear for unranked pvp? Just so when the random 2.4k mythic geared player kills you that you can't blame the 3% increase in stats they have over you? You're not entitled to everything in the game through your small, limited facet of interests. For too long, Blizzard has pandered to the "casuals" in the name appeasing the players while in reality subscriber numbers continue to dwindle.

Sincerely, someone who did no rated pvp or raiding above LFR through all of WoD and doesn't care if people have shinier pixels than me.

I think you're deluded if you think theyve been pandering to casuals. And its not 3% - its about 11%. I.E. worse than the gear discrepancy was in WoD, ever.

Math is a thing.

Not that that matters - everyone deserves to be able to progress their character. Reaching a point where you run into a wall and can no longer progress is just bad game design, and is the primary thing that drives people away from continuing to play.

[notawizard]

I think you're deluded if you think theyve been pandering to casuals. And its not 3% - its about 11%. I.E. worse than the gear discrepancy was in WoD, ever.

Math is a thing.

Not that that matters - everyone deserves to be able to progress their character. Reaching a point where you run into a wall and can no longer progress is just bad game design, and is the primary thing that drives people away from continuing to play.

First of all, 11% discrepancy in Legion cannot possibly be worse than 620 (freshly dinged) vs 740 (fully geared) in WoD. So the new system (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228696/principles-of-war) is DEFINITLY an improvement for alts.

HOWEVER, in the old system you could plan your character and in the end have the same ilvl as the top-end PVP'ers, and in the new system it looks like it's either impossible or going to take a LONG time (or go PvE). This sucks for your main character. I wish gear was 100% a non-factor in instanced pvp instead.. why does that 2400 rated guy NEED that 3-11% more stats when he's already better than me in PvP (his rating proves that)

Also, jSewell, there's no entitlement here. We need the best gear for unranked and ranked pvp so everyone has a fair chance. Youknow, for a competetive environment. has nothing to do with "little facets of interests" or "entitlement".

[Tenjen]

progression is no longer tied to gear (which isnt a big upgrade anyway in Legion), which is as it should be really.

[wombats23]

First of all, 11% discrepancy in Legion cannot possibly be worse than 620 (freshly dinged) vs 740 (fully geared) in WoD. So the new system (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228696/principles-of-war) is DEFINITLY an improvement for alts.

HOWEVER, in the old system you could plan your character and in the end have the same ilvl as the top-end PVP'ers, and in the new system it looks like it's either impossible or going to take a LONG time (or go PvE). This sucks for your main character. I wish gear was 100% a non-factor in instanced pvp instead.. why does that 2400 rated guy NEED that 3-11% more stats when he's already better than me in PvP (his rating proves that)

Also, jSewell, there's no entitlement here. We need the best gear for unranked and ranked pvp so everyone has a fair chance. Youknow, for a competetive environment. has nothing to do with "little facets of interests" or "entitlement".

he doesn't need it; he deserves it. the best players should get the best rewards.