Vengeance really squishy on live?

[Kukkaroinen]

I tanked an entire Heroic HFC tonight with nearly the same fluid speed as my 744 DK with a mix of PVP Gear from tokens, the jewelry from Invasions, Heirloom trinket, Alchemy trinket 725 and two glaives from invasions I farmed to 725 by spamming alts through chests. Went for as much haste mastery as possible. With proper healers it felt really good.

I'd say the most dangerous part of tanking tonight was doing Iskar and solo tanking while the guild burned down Iskar with range classes and melee handled adds... it was quite sketchy.

Also when doing some Mythic 5 mans the room of orcs after the 2nd boss in UBRS got pulled by someone getting feared, all of them and the 3 ogres... it came down to leaping around, assisted CC and good sigil placement to not wipe and felt sort of hectic but some of the most fun I have had tanking in a long time. I am incredibly stoked for DH tanking as of now.

It really does have a lot to do with stacking haste for High Demon Spike Uptime and saving soul cleave for real damage. Immo, Brand, Leaps and Immo Sigil while DS is up and if it needs to fall between uses be ready to Soul Cleave.

My DH is Felazio on Maelstrom - I've been a long term reader of these forums but never posted. Starting with the DH on boarding and can't post links yet

Sounds good but how did you farm the glaives to 725 with alts? I know you can buy the 700 glaives but after that you have to farm on your DH for upgrades don't you?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I haven't been having trouble being squishy. Are you guys sure it's not just bad healers?

[Vaedren]

I find that when im actually tanking the mobs, even in invasions, I don't die at all. With or without a healer. Im ilvl 700 atm got a crafted helm from WoD, but otherwise the standard invasion gear and its going great.
Are you using your defensive CDs before abilities, before larger pulls?

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Sounds good but how did you farm the glaives to 725 with alts? I know you can buy the 700 glaives but after that you have to farm on your DH for upgrades don't you?

The Glaive is BoA, so you simply send it to the alt and upgrade it, then send it back.

[TheWindWalker]

I haven't been having trouble being squishy. Are you guys sure it's not just bad healers?

The level at which they rely on healers, is the issue. I can pop on my Brewmaster and stand in the same spot, against the same boss, as my DH which is ~15 ilvls below him and out-avoid and out-soak all forms of damage.

The only thing Vengeance seems to have over anyone else is DH's Soul Cleave is available constantly whereas Death Strike is excessively expensive to cast so you end up having to stand around waiting to avoid not having the RP if you need it; but, massive but here, Vampiric Blood has three times the Uptime, the same increase in maximum/current HP, and comes with +30% healing received.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I've done the same thing on my DH (i.e. not need a lot of reliance on healers, but a bad healer is still a bad healer and is gonna make you feel squishier than you are). DH have been out for a couple days whereas the other specs' changes have been around for a few weeks. Might just need more practice?

[Deleted]

One of the big issues besides unreliable pain generation on pull and the rng of the souls (hello Felblade and Fracture) is that the current gear dropping from Invasions is mostly not giving you the stats you want. They're massively favored towards Havoc stat-wise.

When most of the gear is replaced with proper Tank items, it gets better, but the missing Talents still make you A LOT less reliable.


It's mostly an issue in higher difficulty though. Outside of Stage 4 bosses and the Meme Reavers, you can reliably Tank everything at 700 ilvl.

[Xaikar]

I am having no issues. Make sure to keep up Demon Spikes. Don't save your souls use them!

[Drewharymore]

Sounds good but how did you farm the glaives to 725 with alts? I know you can buy the 700 glaives but after that you have to farm on your DH for upgrades don't you?

The glaives can drop for DH from chest or be purchased by ANY character as they are BOA. Then you pass them around when you switch to alts. The upgrade item drops from chest by chance to. So out of 7 characters I was getting 1-3 Upgrade items from chests per rotation every 4 hours on invasions PLUS buying the items when I hit 150 shards on each character. It took 2.5 rotations of all alts over 3 invasion. So about 3-4 hours total invasion time

[Deleted]

The lack of talents and skills really hurts in my opinion, there is no rotation whatsoever right now.
I'm looking forward very much to the release of Legion.

doesnt change on 110 when you have a look on skills and talents.

[celinamuna]

I believe that class is currently underpowered, as it's unlikely that people would be struggling with such a simple spec, even if they lack experience.

[skeptyc]

I was gonna just eat my popcorn and observe but...

I've tanked Mythic dungeons on my DH. No issues. Had one near miss when the hunter barraged 3 packs, but my healer went nuts, and no issues. I've tanked some Heroic HFC bosses with no problem (my ilevel is 710, but that's trivial to get, 18 Marks of Honour and some Demon Invasions, boom done.)

I've healed Vengeance Demon Hunter tanks in mythics. Again, no issues. Really really trivially easy. And this tank was 695-ish, fairly fresh out of the starting zone.

With Vengeance in the pre-patch, you HAVE TO USE YOUR CDs. You need to be making sure you have the 60 pain in case you need it, but not overcapping pain either. You need to pay attention to shit. Is it a pack with casters? Sigil of Silence. Are you using your AoE abilities? Keeping Demon Spikes up when needed? Don't run through mobs if you need to move, Infernal Strike. Use your toolkit, use your CDs, get great success.

Quit whining about a spec that is missing 80% of it's talents, and look at how you're playing it.

And yes, the same goes for Havoc DPS :P

[celinamuna]

I believe that the issue will be somewhat alleviated once blizzard fix the buggy code that broke darkness.

[skeptyc]

I believe that the issue will be somewhat alleviated once blizzard fix the buggy code that broke darkness.

This is either the greatest troll ever, or you are living on Neptune. Either way, Bravo!

[Kauko]

Will legion be played at 100 or at 110? So, here is your answer...

[celinamuna]

This is either the greatest troll ever, or you are living on Neptune. Either way, Bravo!

How is this a troll ? It's a known fact that veng is intended to have darkness. Currently when you use it, it instead goes to empowered wards, which is likely due to a bug, similar to the one experienced by prot paladins with cavalier talent.

I'm sure it'll get fixed soon.

[skeptyc]

How is this a troll ? It's a known fact that veng is intended to have darkness. Currently when you use it, it instead goes to empowered wards, which is likely due to a bug, similar to the one experienced by prot paladins with cavalier talent.

I'm sure it'll get fixed soon.

A 20% chance for attacks to miss people in an AoE area is not going to be a magical band aid fix for people playing VDH badly.

[celinamuna]

A 20% chance for attacks to miss people in an AoE area is not going to be a magical band aid fix for people playing VDH badly.

It will help a lot with big pulls, as it's basically 20% damage reduction. Furthermore i doubt that people are playing it wrong, due to how simple the spec is. It's mostly that it is undertuned, as we can see with them struggling, even with the 20% buff.

It's a simple fact that can be seen from the logs, that DH even struggle holding agro against other tanks.

[Shieldi]

I believe that the issue will be somewhat alleviated once blizzard fix the buggy code that broke darkness.

i 100% agree with this

[skeptyc]

It will help a lot with big pulls, as it's basically 20% damage reduction. Furthermore i doubt that people are playing it wrong, due to how simple the spec is. It's mostly that it is undertuned, as we can see with them struggling, even with the 20% buff.

It's a simple fact that can be seen from the logs, that DH even struggle holding agro against other tanks.

At this point, I'm just gonna 'Nope' outta this discussion. It's obvious you haven't actually tanked Heroic HFC on a Vengeance Demon Hunter, or healed any competent Vengeance tanks. The EXACT opposite is true, I've been having issues with other tanks NOT being able to get aggro off of me, and ZERO issue holding it.

Also, a 20% chance for attacks to miss does not equate to a 20% damage reduction. It can very easily be (and often is on Havoc) a 0% damage reduction, due to how RNG works. It's not a magic fix.

Anyways, have fun with your circlejerk. I gave facts, you don't want 'em, so I'm out.

[celinamuna]

At this point, I'm just gonna 'Nope' outta this discussion. It's obvious you haven't actually tanked Heroic HFC on a Vengeance Demon Hunter, or healed any competent Vengeance tanks. The EXACT opposite is true, I've been having issues with other tanks NOT being able to get aggro off of me, and ZERO issue holding it.

Also, a 20% chance for attacks to miss does not equate to a 20% damage reduction. It can very easily (and often is on Havoc) a 0% damage reduction, due to how RNG works. It's not a magic fix.

Anyways, have fun with your circlejerk. I gave facts, you don't want 'em, so I'm out.

Why would I be tanking heroic HFC ?

But on mythic DH can't hold agro against a competent tank, when they're doing less than half of their dps on most fights.

The only reason to bring a DH tank into mythic raid right now, is if you're 3 tanking, and they are in for a free ride.