1. #10381
    Deleted
    So I can't decide which specc to level with. My Mainspecc since TBC is Holy and I always had Ret as Level/Quest Specc but since WoD I really can't stand playing Ret anymore and its obviously not any better since 7.0.3. I tried Ret and Holy on the Beta and didn't like both for Leveling.

    As Holy you have way too much Downtime Auto-Attacking.

    So should I try Prot?

  2. #10382
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I agree, honestly even if i'm not top 200, but still 13/13 m before 7.0, Im really tired of people saying everything is viable, yeah no shit sherlock diference is with a war i need like 50% less healing than i need for my paladin and that can be the reason i switch class.
    I mean, Paladin brings other stuff to the raid. If all you rate a tank by is how much healing they require you're going to have a bad time. "Everything is viable" should be affixed with "if you can play decently." If you find it difficult to clear HFC with a 735+ Paladin but can do it on a 735+ Warrior, it speaks to your ability to play well overall rather than playing a specific class. I suppose swapping to blatantly overpowered classes to clear content could be a way to sustain raiding at a level you want to be at without putting much effort into it, but there is definitely a cap on how far you can go doing so without putting in time to improve overall. You'd be better off simply working on any random class that you enjoy. Assuming you're not that high up on world rankings, the argument for swapping classes because your current one is too weak is somewhat lackluster. Unless the ranking is so low that you need that power buff to clear content. I hope it's not that.

    End of the day, play what you want for whatever reason you prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by EVGAFAVOR View Post
    So I can't decide which specc to level with. My Mainspecc since TBC is Holy and I always had Ret as Level/Quest Specc but since WoD I really can't stand playing Ret anymore and its obviously not any better since 7.0.3. I tried Ret and Holy on the Beta and didn't like both for Leveling.

    As Holy you have way too much Downtime Auto-Attacking.

    So should I try Prot?
    May as well give it a spin. It can't be worse than Retri.

  3. #10383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veyloris View Post
    That's weird advice given it's a personal philosophy. I literally only play paladin now because they were OP during ToT and I swapped from a different class. I won't be playing prot paladin for at least EN because without changes they're definitely weaker than warrior or druid.

    The class that feels best to play as is only the right choice if you want to prioritize the fun of the class over other things; that's your choice and your philosophy. People shouldn't feel bad for wanting to change classes because their preferred one is strong. I know you probably heard "bring the player, not the class" but what Blizzard really said was "fuck you".
    Unless you want to be the 1% cutting edge raider, it's a bad idea to FOTM reroll if you dont even like playing the spec.

    And yes all of the specs are viable, you can easily do 13/13 mythic with all of the tank specs (maybe not DH since they were designed for 110 and not 100) some just do it better than the others

  4. #10384
    It's weird advice to give in a thread that I'm assuming has a fair amount of people in that 1%. It's advice for people who don't really care about ranking. Even if you can clear with a prot paladin, they don't bring as much to the raid (no matter how good you are) as an equally skilled warrior or druid. I can play a warrior or druid well, and as a result I will be bringing more to the raid because of that.

    WoW is, outside of the obvious challenges of progression, an easy game. There aren't a lot of mechanical hurdles, and for the average player, you probably have just about every fact about your class laid out for you by the cutting edge players. Stating the obvious and saying "haha, you can clear any raid 20 ilvls over what it took to originally kill with any class" is, well... stating the obvious. Anyone who thinks that they need to change class for progression outside of like top 200 world is just deluded and aren't going to be convinced by someone whiteknighting the class on the forums. Anyone who understands the strength gained in class swapping doesn't really need to hear you saying "the class is actually ok!". The thread is a discussion of the class in alpha/beta/legion, and I think it's been said enough over the past 100 pages: Yeah, the class is ok. You won't get one shot in a heroic raid. Does it hold a candle to some of the strengths other classes have? No. Does it have some inherent advantages because BoP/Bubble/Sac/Neg/etc? Yes, of course.

    People aren't even still railing on how bad the class is. If someone asks "how good is this spec?" the answer is "okay, but not good, and definitely weaker than warrior/druid". Anything else just makes you wrong and trying to oversell the class because of some weird victim complex.


    And if the advice only applies at 100: literally who cares? This expansion is over. The name "Legion" is in the title of the thread.
    Last edited by Veyloris; 2016-08-11 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #10385
    Quote Originally Posted by EVGAFAVOR View Post
    So I can't decide which specc to level with. My Mainspecc since TBC is Holy and I always had Ret as Level/Quest Specc but since WoD I really can't stand playing Ret anymore and its obviously not any better since 7.0.3. I tried Ret and Holy on the Beta and didn't like both for Leveling.

    As Holy you have way too much Downtime Auto-Attacking.

    So should I try Prot?
    Prot is pretty fun for leveling, I was very salty about retri but I tried prot now for leveling and had a blast in beta, very low downtime/easier to solo rares/can pull large packs of mobs etc.

    I'm really considering maiming Prot, seems to be very good at random and world PVP aswell.

  6. #10386
    Veyloris how much beta raid testing have you done out of curiosity, you keep citing warrior/druid as the go to tanks when its hands down druid/dk at 110. Paladins are a world stronger at 110 than they are at 100, you actually have healing at 110, anyone whos basing there impression of the class at 100 with no artifact is a fucking morongoloid.

    Trademarking morongoloid

  7. #10387
    Should seraphim be buffed? I haven't seen it in action on beta, but just numbers wise it looks like it needs something more to compete with the others on anything other than farm.

  8. #10388
    Quote Originally Posted by Sepelio View Post
    Veyloris how much beta raid testing have you done out of curiosity, you keep citing warrior/druid as the go to tanks when its hands down druid/dk at 110. Paladins are a world stronger at 110 than they are at 100, you actually have healing at 110, anyone whos basing there impression of the class at 100 with no artifact is a fucking morongoloid.

    Trademarking morongoloid
    Morongoloid is solid term.

    I've done quite a bit of testing on beta as far as playing classes and also raid testing. The only reason I cite druid/warrior is because I have less experience with DKs, and I've heard far less anecdotal evidence about the strength of DKs/BrM. I personally have done raid testing on both paladin and warrior, and the difference is striking. I definitely feel more comfortable on paladin since I've played it for so long, but the warrior performs far better as far as survivability is concerned, and up until the latest patch, also trumped paladin mobility by a lot. That's obviously been helped by cavalier, and is less of an issue now.

    I don't really speak in terms of pre-patch, because who honestly cares about the month where the game is, always has been, and always will be imbalanced.

  9. #10389
    Quote Originally Posted by Sepelio View Post
    Trademarking morongoloid
    First thing I have read in this thread that made me burst out laughing. EPIC.

  10. #10390
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcinusDrake View Post
    Should seraphim be buffed? I haven't seen it in action on beta, but just numbers wise it looks like it needs something more to compete with the others on anything other than farm.
    Always viewed Seraphim as a WTMFOP trinket procc in a way that its numbers were always the same during an expansion without changing varying to ilvl. As a result i would expect it to be precious at start and lose ground with the progress (and ilvl rise). I also feel like it needs some buffing since last defender seems pretty solid with the 3% damage reduction for each enemy (is it like 6% versatility or like half the value of seraphim versatility on single target if am correct) and also synergizes pretty well with relic traits ... From me POV it helps smooth the incomin damage. However most players and plain numbers prove it to be less effective than the rest of the talent choices .

  11. #10391
    What The Moment Flavour Of Powered? I just miss highmaul sera, thought it would be good if (at lvl 100) it gave 500 stat and a 15% physical DR or somesuch so sera was again a good defensive cd that traded mitigation for uptime.

  12. #10392
    Deleted
    Y well seems it can trade mitigation uptime with some serious strikes of heavy hitting avengers shields resulting in greater absorbs plus can give stronger SotR if used near the end of the buff .
    However would expect it to be somewhat stronger, specially since there is no armor component

  13. #10393
    Deleted
    is it worth going for max haste values each raiding tier or try to hit a soft cap procentange?

  14. #10394
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pif View Post
    is it worth going for max haste values each raiding tier or try to hit a soft cap procentange?
    soft is 100%

  15. #10395
    Could someone possibly explain what the Artifact trait "Forbearant Faithful" means? The wording on it is confusing.

  16. #10396
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taygai View Post
    Could someone possibly explain what the Artifact trait "Forbearant Faithful" means? The wording on it is confusing.
    Pretty sure it means that when you cause forbearance on yourself / a raidmember, the cooldown on your forbearance causing abilities (LoH etc) is sped up by 50% whilst forbearance is active. Also it stacks, so if you BoP someone, LoH someone else, and Divine Shield yourself, your forbearance causing abilities will come up 150% faster (50% for each one)

    Think that's how it works at least, then again I haven't really done much Beta and only did early Alpha so it wouldn't surprise me if I am wrong.

  17. #10397
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaffs View Post
    Pretty sure it means that when you cause forbearance on yourself / a raidmember, the cooldown on your forbearance causing abilities (LoH etc) is sped up by 50% whilst forbearance is active. Also it stacks, so if you BoP someone, LoH someone else, and Divine Shield yourself, your forbearance causing abilities will come up 150% faster (50% for each one)

    Think that's how it works at least, then again I haven't really done much Beta and only did early Alpha so it wouldn't surprise me if I am wrong.
    That part I figured out, but I wasn't sure if that meant it just shaved off so many seconds of it's cooldown or if it just made their recharge faster in the form of a buff? So confused.

  18. #10398
    Quote Originally Posted by Taygai View Post
    That part I figured out, but I wasn't sure if that meant it just shaved off so many seconds of it's cooldown or if it just made their recharge faster in the form of a buff? So confused.
    Think about it like haste reducing the cooldown on your abilities. The more haste you have, the shorter the cooldown gets.... so when you have a temporary haste buff, your cooldowns spin faster, and when the haste buff wears off your cooldowns spin slower.

    Same basic idea. Each active forbearance debuff will basically be like 50% haste, but only for the cooldowns on the abilities that cause forbearance.

    (At least, that's my understanding, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone here can correct me)

  19. #10399
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Think about it like haste reducing the cooldown on your abilities. The more haste you have, the shorter the cooldown gets.... so when you have a temporary haste buff, your cooldowns spin faster, and when the haste buff wears off your cooldowns spin slower.

    Same basic idea. Each active forbearance debuff will basically be like 50% haste, but only for the cooldowns on the abilities that cause forbearance.

    (At least, that's my understanding, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone here can correct me)
    I guess the question comes then, if that's how it works. What is the duration on the "faster haste wheel."

  20. #10400
    Quote Originally Posted by Taygai View Post
    I guess the question comes then, if that's how it works. What is the duration on the "faster haste wheel."
    It lasts while Forbearance is active, so, 30 seconds.

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