Vengeance really squishy on live?

[skeptyc]

Why would I be tanking heroic HFC ?

But on mythic DH can't hold agro against a competent tank, when they're doing less than half of their dps on most fights.

The only reason to bring a DH tank into mythic raid right now, is if you're 3 tanking, and they are in for a free ride.

Because comparing a 710 DH tank vs a 745+ Mythic HFC geared tank in tanking a Mythic HFC run is balls out stupid. So compare apples to apples. 710 DH in a Heroic with a similarly geared Other Class Tank = No issues with aggro. 710 DH tank in a Mythic vs a fully geared tank with a 795 ring and all the trimmings = Yeah, issues. But that's not down to the class.

K, I need to stop replying to this thread. It's full of so much derp I'm going to blow some braincells.

[celinamuna]

Because comparing a 710 DH tank vs a 745+ Mythic HFC geared tank in tanking a Mythic HFC run is balls out stupid. So compare apples to apples. 710 DH in a Heroic = No issues with aggro. 710 DH tank in a Mythic vs a fully geared tank with a 795 ring and all the trimmings = Yeah, issues. But that's not down to the class.

K, I need to stop replying to this thread. It's full of so much derp I'm going to blow some braincells.

But we're talking about current situation.
Looking at top parsing veng, a number of classes can destroy them on dps meters, even in similar ilvl.

[Vanyali]

But we're talking about current situation.
Looking at top parsing veng, a number of classes can destroy them on dps meters, even in similar ilvl.

You're venge, who cares about dps.

You're still also comparing ring + 745 BiS mythic to someone else and saying "venge sucks because they can't compete".

Dumb as fuck comparison, and I feel dumber for having to point out why a BiS mythic might do more dps than someone that's not BiS mythic, as well as the fact that this has little to do with holding threat unless your other tanks are just assholes.

[celinamuna]

You're venge, who cares about dps.

You're still also comparing ring + 745 BiS mythic to someone else and saying "venge sucks because they can't compete".

Dumb as fuck comparison, and I feel dumber for having to point out why a BiS mythic might do more dps than someone that's not BiS mythic, as well as the fact that this has little to do with holding threat unless your other tanks are just assholes.

Because they won't be able to hold agro properly.
#1 Veng dh : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../8/#metric=dps is around 720 ilvl
Yet his numbers can easily be destroyed by people even in similar ilvl sets.

And that's even ignoring the fact that DH get artificial 20% boost.

[Vanyali]

Because they won't be able to hold agro properly.
#1 Veng dh : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../8/#metric=dps is around 720 ilvl
Yet his numbers can easily be destroyed by people even in similar ilvl sets.

And that's even ignoring the fact that DH get artificial 20% boost.

who have the ring and set bonuses.

Again: holding threat still has very little to do with dps.

Otherwise, no tanks could hold against arcane mages.

[elfporn]

Because they won't be able to hold agro properly.
#1 Veng dh : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../8/#metric=dps is around 720 ilvl
Yet his numbers can easily be destroyed by people even in similar ilvl sets.

And that's even ignoring the fact that DH get artificial 20% boost.

I think the reasons for this were already elaborated on. Incomplete talents, lack of BiS gearsets/trinkets, ring, etc.

I'd also like to point out that i ran a full Heroic HFC run with our DH alts and had a monk MT and DH offtanking, the DH had no issues with agro against the monk.

[celinamuna]

who have the ring and set bonuses.

Again: holding threat still has very little to do with dps.

Otherwise, no tanks could hold against arcane mages.

Because tanks all get x10 modifier. I'm not talking about holding threat against dps, only against co-tank.

I think the reasons for this were already elaborated on. Incomplete talents, lack of BiS gearsets/trinkets, ring, etc.

I'd also like to point out that i ran a full Heroic HFC run with our DH alts and had a monk MT and DH offtanking, the DH had no issues with agro against the monk.

Perhaps monk is playing incorrectly, and they're fairly weak on dps anyhow.

[elfporn]

Because tanks all get x10 modifier. I'm not talking about holding threat against dps, only against co-tank.



Perhaps monk is playing incorrectly, and they're fairly weak on dps anyhow.

The point was that you're worrying over threat when answers to your question have been provided, when veng has it's full toolkit you should have no problems holding threat against other tanks.

[celinamuna]

The point was that you're worrying over threat when answers to your question have been provided, when veng has it's full toolkit you should have no problems holding threat against other tanks.

Well, we're not talking about 110, are we ?
We're talking about live.

[Vanyali]

The point was that you're worrying over threat when answers to your question have been provided, when veng has it's full toolkit you should have no problems holding threat against other tanks.

There's not a problem now unless your co-tank is going balls-out.

Which will rip threat from another class as well.

So it comes back to: it's not an issue unless you're tanking with an asshole.

[celinamuna]

There's not a problem now unless your co-tank is going balls-out.

Which will rip threat from another class as well.

So it comes back to: it's not an issue unless you're tanking with an asshole.

So you're saying that your co-tank needs to stop doing his rotation so that you can perform adequately ?

That doesn't sound so good.

[Vanyali]

So you're saying that your co-tank needs to stop doing his rotation so that you can perform adequately ?

That doesn't sound so good.

Nope.

But clearly, you're not caring to read what you're responding to in favor of pushing a "DH suck! IT'S NOT ME IT'S THE CLASS!" view, so eh.

[celinamuna]

Nope.

But clearly, you're not caring to read what you're responding to in favor of pushing a "DH suck! IT'S NOT ME IT'S THE CLASS!" view, so eh.

I mean, the top DH (at 720 ilvl) wouldn't be able to function as well as a number of other tanks at that ilvl, despite 20% stat boost.
The class is simple enough that i doubt people would be making mistakes at that level.

So currently, on live (100), it does suck.

[GameFX]

So you're saying that your co-tank needs to stop doing his rotation so that you can perform adequately ?

That doesn't sound so good.

Lim this almost made me spit my water on my monitor - ROFL

[Vanyali]

I mean, the top DH (at 720 ilvl) wouldn't be able to function as well as a number of other tanks at that ilvl, despite 20% stat boost.
The class is simple enough that i doubt people would be making mistakes at that level.

So currently, on live (100), it does suck.

Not what I said at all.

But good job pushing your agenda!

[celinamuna]

Not what I said at all.

But good job pushing your agenda!

Well, the best player in the world for DH atm, would be unable to perform properly. But clearly it's l2p issue, and not the issue with the class.

[Vanyali]

Well, the best player in the world for DH atm, would be unable to perform properly. But clearly it's l2p issue, and not the issue with the class.

You're really running with this "but the best person in the world!" aren't you? *pats head*

That still has nothing to do with the fact that a co-tank going balls out will almost always steal threat, regardless of class. Because that's what asshole co-tanks do: they slam hard on a max dps rotation because they don't have to worry about survivability or positioning.

[elfporn]

I mean, the top DH (at 720 ilvl) wouldn't be able to function as well as a number of other tanks at that ilvl, despite 20% stat boost.
The class is simple enough that i doubt people would be making mistakes at that level.

So currently, on live (100), it does suck.

No one is arguing that on live, currently, veng is equal to other tanks. What we're saying is that it isn't and it's because of an incomplete toolkit: lack of gear, lack of ring, lack of talents.

Despite a temporary shortfall vs other tanks, veng is a viable tank in current content if played with skill.

[celinamuna]

You're really running with this "but the best person in the world!" aren't you? *pats head*

That still has nothing to do with the fact that a co-tank going balls out will almost always steal threat, regardless of class. Because that's what asshole co-tanks do: they slam hard on a max dps rotation because they don't have to worry about survivability or positioning.

Except for normal tanks it only happens on burst, for DH it happens for the entire fight.
At this point, saying that other tank has to throttle his dps, so that you can play your class fantasy, is disrespectful towards him, and the raid.

[Vanyali]

Except for normal tanks it only happens on burst, for DH it happens for the entire fight.
At this point, saying that other tank has to throttle his dps, so that you can play your class fantasy, is disrespectful towards him, and the raid.

If you're tanking and concerned about your big-dick dps, you really shouldn't be tanking in the first place.

This entire argument is both bizarre and stupid.