Vengeance really squishy on live?

[celinamuna]

If you're tanking and concerned about your big-dick dps, you really shouldn't be tanking in the first place.

This entire argument is both bizarre and stupid.

Currently that's the only thing you can actually worry as a tank in HFC.
You can tank mythic bosses in cat form and get away with it easily.

[Vanyali]

Currently that's the only thing you can actually worry as a tank in HFC.
You can tank mythic bosses in cat form and get away with it easily.

So you're back to "someone of lower gear level can't outdps someone of higher gear level!". Which goes back to: don't tank with assholes. They tend to make super shitty tanks anyway.

[celinamuna]

So you're back to "someone of lower gear level can't outdps someone of higher gear level!". Which goes back to: don't tank with assholes. They tend to make super shitty tanks anyway.

No, currently DH wouldn't even be able to hold agro against equally geared tank, who's playing properly, and not taking his hands off keyboard every 5 sec.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

You're not the only class getting wrecked. Prot pala has it hard and I heard they weren't alone. Classes are tuned around artifacts.

[GameFX]

I just like to say - I tank and always try and push my DPS as much as possible because surviving is typically pretty easy if you know mechanics so I try and eek out as much DPS as I can to get the fight over with faster

[Vanyali]

No, currently DH wouldn't even be able to hold agro against equally geared tank, who's playing properly, and not taking his hands off keyboard every 5 sec.

Which really isn't true, but okay dude. Have fun with that, I guess.

[Qlix]

The class has been out for what? 48 hours? there is no Best DH in the world lol.

[Vanyali]

I just like to say - I tank and always try and push my DPS as much as possible because surviving is typically pretty easy if you know mechanics so I try and eek out as much DPS as I can to get the fight over with faster

While it has a place, focusing on dps to the point where you ignore threat / mechanics is a really poor tank. If you want to do big-dick dps.. just go dps, or ask to MT. Don't be that guy that ignores his threat for l33t tank deepz.

[javen]

The only time I found myself taking too much damage was when I lept right into a group of mobs. Once I stopped doing that to pull it was fine

[celinamuna]

The class has been out for what? 48 hours? there is no Best DH in the world lol.

I'm sure, many good players had access to beta, to get used to the class. And we're going off logs currently.

[skeptyc]

I'm sure, many good players had access to beta, to get used to the class. And we're going off logs currently.

And if you're having issues holding aggro against a similarly geared tank on a DH, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

But I'm still convinced you're trolling

[Drewharymore]

My DH is sitting 718 ILvl - I can burst 150k (This of course requires consumables, pre potting and opening up with a Leap and Fiery Brand mid air into immo aura but the healers were prepared for me dive in ) On a pull and have tanked a full heroic HFC including solo tanking Iskar. It is doing fine it is appropriately strong for it's ilvl and not having a ring but most importantly it's a lot more fun.

It really is just a learning curve for people who were spoiled with gear and rings.

[Melsiren]

But I'm still convinced you're trolling

He's not, trust me I know Celina, been following him and serveral others in the Prot Paladin theory crafting for years.

Historically over there they've been much more DPS minded, and it yields some pretty impressive results.

[Arborus]

Did all of the mythic dungeons, alongside normal and heroic HFC so far without any real issues other than mistakes on my part.

It feels less beefy than Guardian Druid for sure, but my Druid is also like...40+ ilvl higher, so I have no idea how it feels in comparable gear.

My only complaint is that Soul Cleave's healing feels lackluster.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I have yet to encounter a decent Demon Hunter player in mythic dungeons that either doesn't pull mobs by accident with all their mobility, or just does horribly by being a papertank or getting around 12-15k DPS average, while completely crutching on Eye Beam, so much they they complain to tanks about not getting mobs in a line for them. It's honestly frustrating.

[Agilent]

Did all of the mythic dungeons, alongside normal and heroic HFC so far without any real issues other than mistakes on my part.

It feels less beefy than Guardian Druid for sure, but my Druid is also like...40+ ilvl higher, so I have no idea how it feels in comparable gear.

My only complaint is that Soul Cleave's healing feels lackluster.

I agree i think they should either buff soul cleave base heal or make soul shards more reliable

[Melsiren]

I agree i think they should either buff soul cleave base heal or make soul shards more reliable

The issue is on the Beta Vengence was really strong at one point in 5 man content, the best by leaps and bounds but not so much in a raid setting.

So they nerfed pain generation, damage done, and self healing and increased pain cost. Demonspikes used to reduce all damage taken instead of just physical (even if it was for just one build)... I could go on. It seems that current VDH is not only balanced around 110, with full talents and artifact but around 5 man content, not raiding.


The entire situation reminds me of Brewmasters at the start of WoD, where they were weak in HM... and then BRF came out and they got so much love they went from worst to best.

[Yuqii]

No, currently DH wouldn't even be able to hold agro against equally geared tank, who's playing properly, and not taking his hands off keyboard every 5 sec.

I've read over about a dozen of your posts in this thread. What you're saying is simply not supported by the evidence.

Tank damage in Mythic HFC for the 715-717 item level bracket:

• Death Knight - 35,809.2 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12
• Demon Hunter - 35,075.2 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12
• Paladin - 29,257.6 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12
• Druid - 28,432.6 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12
• Warrior - 27,103.9 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12
• Monk - 20,917.0 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=12

I would be a little cautious of the Monk value as the sample size is low comparatively (36 compared to ~150 for everyone else).

Jump up to the 721-723 bracket and Demon Hunter takes #1 spot:

• Demon Hunter - 40,576.2 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14
• Death Knight - 37,073.5 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14
• Paladin - 32,679.7 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14
• Warrior - 31,290.7 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14
• Druid - 29,973.4 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14
• Monk - 26,162.1 - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&bracket=14

Only 30 samples for Demon Hunter in this category at the moment but I think it's pretty clear to see that Demon Hunter dps is fine at the moment. Everything you've said on the matter has been completely false.

[Trollfat]

I haven't tried tanking, but Vengeance is extremely squishy/useless in PvP on live. Havoc is way better.

[Primalthirst]

This thread is buffing my Pain generation