Havoc First Impressions

[Cempa]

Talents 1/3

The build flows nicely and with mastey (21% in PvP set) I can stay on target until any one with a snare or root notices me ... Damage is real and I think this build will be fun ...

If I get DoTs I run .. If I get focused I run .. Basically like any other melee .. I'd like lesser shards to spawn more but other than that it seems fun'sh ..

[Hexme]

The lack of a snare sucks really bad, combined with a 1 min CD stun is even worse. I will say this though, Havoc is fun.

[Deleted]

The lack of a snare sucks really bad, combined with a 1 min CD stun is even worse. I will say this though, Havoc is fun.

Chaos Nova is an AOE stun, it's actually rather strong at 1min for it's duration.
Fel Eruption is a strong single target stun
Metamorphosis is also an AOE stun.

There's no stuns lacking.

But yes, it wouldnt hurt if throwing the glaive applied a minor snare baseline for a resource cost (10 fury)

[Krimson]

No snare but the mobility is such that sticking to a target hasn't been a problem. I think the problem however is that these chase downs can take you around the maps quite quickly and healers will be put in a tough spot trying to throw you heals.

Blizz told us to be cautious with expectations of DH at 100 but the opposite is really true, they are seeming quite powerful and have been seeing lots of DH's topping damage charts.

Good single target sustained damage.

5min cooldown on Metamorhosis is a bit worrying. It'll get shut down easily in arena by any semi-coordinated team and then you're stuck without a burst cooldown for more or less the rest of the match.

Survivability seems good since our mobility is so good for escaping a fight that's not going our way, but definitely missing out on some sort of on-demand self heal to get back in the fight quickly without a healer present.

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Checking talent tree and their is a talentable snare at 108 on throw glaive.

[Hexme]

Chaos Nova is an AOE stun, it's actually rather strong at 1min for it's duration.
Fel Eruption is a strong single target stun
Metamorphosis is also an AOE stun.

There's no stuns lacking.

But yes, it wouldnt hurt if throwing the glaive applied a minor snare baseline for a resource cost (10 fury)

Chaos Nova is actually one of the worst stuns in the game (Intimidate is probably just as bad).

PLD HoJ it has a talent that increases it to 10 yards and also has a talent that reduces the CD of it by 1 sec for every HP spent

DK strangulate stun is 45 sec CD, they also have Gnaw (pet stun) or Winter is Coming (Frost talent)

Druids Bash stun is on a 50 sec CD

Warriors stuns are 30 sec and 45 sec depending on which one you pick up (also one is a aoe stun and one is a range stun)

Rogues, we all know their BS stuns specially Outlaws

MNKS stun is on a 45 sec CD

Meanwhile Havocs stuns are 5 min on Meta (I believe Meta is on a 3 min CD with AF weapon) and CN which is on a 1 min CD.....as you can see Demons have one of the worst stuns in the game, there's no denying it.

[Schmilblick]

The lack os self healing is the ONLY real problem for me.

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Chaos Nova is actually one of the worst stuns in the game (Intimidate is probably just as bad).

PLD HoJ it has a talent that increases it to 10 yards and also has a talent that reduces the CD of it by 1 sec for every HP spent

DK strangulate stun is 45 sec CD, they also have Gnaw (pet stun) or Winter is Coming (Frost talent)

Druids Bash stun is on a 50 sec CD

Warriors stuns are 30 sec and 45 sec depending on which one you pick up (also one is a aoe stun and one is a range stun)

Rogues, we all know their BS stuns specially Outlaws

MNKS stun is on a 45 sec CD

Meanwhile Havocs stuns are 5 min on Meta (I believe Meta is on a 3 min CD with AF weapon) and CN which is on a 1 min CD.....as you can see Demons have one of the worst stuns in the game, there's no denying it.

DH have a 35 sec stun with talents and they can remove the cost / reduce the CD of Chaos Nova.

[Cempa]

The lack os self healing is the ONLY real problem for me.

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DH have a 35 sec stun with talents and they can remove the cost / reduce the CD of Chaos Nova.

Second talent line 3rd option .. that's your heal .. It seems to have an internal CD and I'd like it lowered in PvE .. but PvP wise seems ok ..

[Saverem]

Chaos Nova is actually one of the worst stuns in the game (Intimidate is probably just as bad).

PLD HoJ it has a talent that increases it to 10 yards and also has a talent that reduces the CD of it by 1 sec for every HP spent

DK strangulate stun is 45 sec CD, they also have Gnaw (pet stun) or Winter is Coming (Frost talent)

Druids Bash stun is on a 50 sec CD

Warriors stuns are 30 sec and 45 sec depending on which one you pick up (also one is a aoe stun and one is a range stun)

Rogues, we all know their BS stuns specially Outlaws

MNKS stun is on a 45 sec CD

Meanwhile Havocs stuns are 5 min on Meta (I believe Meta is on a 3 min CD with AF weapon) and CN which is on a 1 min CD.....as you can see Demons have one of the worst stuns in the game, there's no denying it.

You are comparing classes with different mechanics. For one, you are wrong with DKs. They don't ALSO have Gnaw, they have the 45s CD stun OR Gnaw as both are SPEC DEPENDENT stuns. BDKs get the 45s 20 yard range single target stun, UDK get Gnaw which is the pet stun, and FDK gets the Relentless Winter stun if they talent it. Also, DKs have the worst mobility so they depend more on stuns/snare than DHs which have one of the best mobility.

Different classes, different weights on CC.

[minteK917]

They had the same problem at 110 for a while, still is so far. Snare/Damage etc is not the issue. Problem is that Havoc survivability is just straight out poop at 110 compared to pretty much everything. You can have all the mobility in the world, damage, snare, If you drop dead in a kidney shot, it didnt matter. Also all their substain is tied to a 4 minute cooldown at 110.

Playing a DH at 110 in arena is pretty much playing a rogue with huge cleave and aoe damage, but no way to defend itself and low control. It could work if DH was a plate class and had self healing of some sort.

[Schmilblick]

Second talent line 3rd option .. that's your heal .. It seems to have an internal CD and I'd like it lowered in PvE .. but PvP wise seems ok ..

And it's a joke
15 sec ICD
You must hit someone with a melee range spell to proc, so if you are rooted / slowed / stunned, then you are screwed.
You must move to the Fragment to get healed, again, any movement impairing effect will screw you.

[Hexme]

The lack os self healing is the ONLY real problem for me.

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DH have a 35 sec stun with talents and they can remove the cost / reduce the CD of Chaos Nova.

You do realize that tier you have the choice of a x2 charge of glaive throw that can snare, a 33% cd reduction to CN and reduces the fury cost to 0 AND Demon Reborn, a CD reset for Eye Beam, CN and Blur. Which one are you gonna choose 90% of the time? (since you probably don't know, the answer is Demon Reborn)

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You are comparing classes with different mechanics. For one, you are wrong with DKs. They don't ALSO have Gnaw, they have the 45s CD stun OR Gnaw as both are SPEC DEPENDENT stuns. BDKs get the 45s 20 yard range single target stun, UDK get Gnaw which is the pet stun, and FDK gets the Relentless Winter stun if they talent it. Also, DKs have the worst mobility so they depend more on stuns/snare than DHs which have one of the best mobility.

Different classes, different weights on CC.

You do realize UDK can have Gnaw and "force choke" right?, which ironically UH is one of thee best pvp specs at 110 so don't even try to undersell Unholy.

[Saverem]

You do realize UDK can have Gnaw and "force choke" right?, which ironically UH is one of thee best pvp specs at 110 so don't even try to undersell Unholy.

Right now you have to be a bad to ever choose Asphixiate over Sludge Belcher which gives you a better pet with more DPS, HP (helps with Corpse Shield) and an extra Death Grip.

Also, Gnaw is a 1 (one) second stun. 1. It's more of an interrupt than a stun assuming target is stunnable.

[Cempa]

You do realize that tier you have the choice of a x2 charge of glaive throw that can snare, a 33% cd reduction to CN and reduces the fury cost to 0 AND Demon Reborn, a CD reset for Eye Beam, CN and Blur. Which one are you gonna choose 90% of the time? (since you probably don't know, the answer is Demon Reborn)

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You do realize UDK can have Gnaw and "force choke" right?, which ironically UH is one of thee best pvp specs at 110 so don't even try to undersell Unholy.

Out of curiosity what are the other two? Arms and Outlaw?

[Hexme]

Right now you have to be a bad to ever choose Asphixiate over Sludge Belcher which gives you a better pet with more DPS, HP (helps with Corpse Shield) and an extra Death Grip.

Also, Gnaw is a 1 (one) second stun. 1. It's more of an interrupt than a stun assuming target is stunnable.

First off, there's no dmg difference between Ghoul and Abomb, the only upside for Abomb is Hook

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=207313/...lcher#comments

Lastly if you take Abomb over Asphyxiate you're bad, Hook is only good for maybe anti kiting (what's gonna set up for a kill, a grip or a stun), even then if the target is rooted all that hook will do is make the Abomb charge the target.

So please stop talking since you have no idea what you're talking about.

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Out of curiosity what are the other two? Arms and Outlaw?

In terms of what, mobility wise Outlaw over Arms everyday of the week, Outlaw just has an awesome kit for pretty much everything minus the insane mobility that Sub has.

[Tyrannica]

You do realize UDK can have Gnaw and "force choke" right?, which ironically UH is one of thee best pvp specs at 110 so don't even try to undersell Unholy.

There are no pvp specs, there are:

Arena specs

RBG specs

Duel specs

Other than RBGs the unholy spec is easily one of the weakest specs out there right now, or please explain how an unholy dk will prevent someone to 1 shot it? It can't be healed by coils anymore? Actually uh dks are the only pet class that cannot heal their pets!

And when its done there is no cc to speak of, dmg almost halved and there is no blood presence and selfheals that can save you.

There is nothing in the pvp talents or artefact weapon that can help you survive against a melee cleave at all.

Why do people rate only the dmg and offensive cds of a class? Is this friggin PVE?

[Saverem]

First off, there's no dmg difference between Ghoul and Abomb, the only upside for Abomb is Hook

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=207313/...lcher#comments

Lastly if you take Abomb over Asphyxiate you're bad, Hook is only good for maybe anti kiting (what's gonna set up for a kill, a grip or a stun), even then if the target is rooted all that hook will do is make the Abomb charge the target.

So please stop talking since you have no idea what you're talking about.

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In terms of what, mobility wise Outlaw over Arms everyday of the week, Outlaw just has an awesome kit for pretty much everything minus the insane mobility that Sub has.

First off, there's no dmg difference between Ghoul and Abomb, the only upside for Abomb is Hook

[Links proof that Abomb does more damage than Ghoul]

wat


Maybe you should read the things you link first, it makes you look like a fool.

[Snegovik]

Chaos Nova is an AOE stun, it's actually rather strong at 1min for it's duration.
Fel Eruption is a strong single target stun
Metamorphosis is also an AOE stun.

There's no stuns lacking.

But yes, it wouldnt hurt if throwing the glaive applied a minor snare baseline for a resource cost (10 fury)

you get it later in your talent tree from Master of the glaives

Never mind some1 already posted it, i am late to the party =(.

Personally i don't think DH needs self healing outside of Meta, i think Blizzards needs to buff or lower CD on DH's shield wall and give them like a 1-1.5min cd snare breaker and DHs will be in a perfect position

[Hexme]

First off, there's no dmg difference between Ghoul and Abomb, the only upside for Abomb is Hook

[Links proof that Abomb does more damage than Ghoul]

wat


Maybe you should read the things you link first, it makes you look like a fool.

Since you have a hard time understanding

Beltcher abilities

Cleaver = 125% dmg //// with DT 135% dmg
Smash= 1 sec stun ///// with DT 125% dmg and 2 sec stun
Bile = 50% protective dmg ///// with DT 60%

Ghoul abilities

Claw = same as cleaver % wise
Gnaw = same as smash % wise
Huddle is 10% less than bile with DT up

Outside of a 10% more dmg reduction and a grip, Beltcher does the same dmg as a Ghoul even with DT. Don't believe me look at the talents yourself or else continue to look like you have no idea how a DK works.

[Deleted]

Having played havoc and rogues. I really enjoy Havocs consistency. Damage seems high without CDs. Sub on the other hand without SD can't do jack shit.

[Snegovik]

Having played havoc and rogues. I really enjoy Havocs consistency. Damage seems high without CDs. Sub on the other hand without SD can't do jack shit.

Did you try assassin on Beta? That spec is amazing, it has one of the best bursts in game, it can pretty much kill any1 under 20 sec if set up is correct, too bad i don;t play my rogue any more, but Assa looks mad mad fun if you are into quick burst game play