The Horde - Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner

[Mehrunes]

When the shoe fits.

Still waiting for that example.

Also I'll leave the ruining to you and the SDF.

Because your TEH CIRCLEJERK (not just on lore forum) and "Blizzard suffers from HORDE BIAS" which are the bread and butter of your posts for years now are quality contributions.

It is not that he couldn't become warchief, but I personally don't trust blizz to keep him around in that position to be honest, most warchiefs die after all and it would be a shame if Lor'themar bites it, because blizz want someone more popular to take the spot.

Well, hopefully they'll stop treating the Warchief position as a revolving door because it's getting stale and redundant by now. And in before Krazy vomits some more stuff about jacking off to Sylvanas, I had that opinion since Vol'jin's death was datamined and it wasn't known who'd replace him yet and I'd be just fine with Lor'themar as Warchief.

[Chemii]

Like your 3 sentences, 2 of which are just bashing her and incorrect with the lore?

Whether you agree with what I said or not, simply replying with satirical nonsense and not really contributing anything to the discussion other than sarcasm is not content and is barely worth reading. It's a simple observation, sorry it upsets you that I've called out your friend.

As for the lore being incorrect, elaborate, as I think you are wrong.

[Goradan]

First Female Warchief, your move alliance.

It's like Obama > Hillary.

But they the thing I like this that they are not solely about humans and the other races are just tagging along.

The horde is like family, but Sylvanas is still the runt.

[Notshauna]

I don't really understand the criticisms of Sylvanas in particular. Yes she is a bad person by modern standings but hating her in particular doesn't really make sense. Warcraft's societies are largely feudalistic and as such regularly target civilians, enslave people (both literally and virtually) and feature despots. Where in the real world the incestuous royals were ousted by revolt, Warcraft glosses over it all by framing it's world in a supremely romantic manner. Honestly, every society in Warcraft is guilty of massive war crimes, it's just something that Blizzard rarely mentions unless you're trying to create a villain (which is why so many people still think Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, because no one gets texture in this game except to push raids or PvP)

[Zyky]

Whether you agree with what I said or not, simply replying with satirical nonsense and not really contributing anything to the discussion other than sarcasm is not content and is barely worth reading. It's a simple observation, sorry it upsets you that I've called out your friend.

As for the lore being incorrect, elaborate, as I think you are wrong.

He isn't my friend, as you could see from both our post history we tend to disagree a lot, but you post is all bias and all false statements.

[Deleted]

On this website, there are nearly countless threads, which you can go through, which will tell you a million reasons why Sylvanas is actually a good choice of Warchief from a logical standpoint. This debate is pretty much over, since "i don't like her and i think she is evil" is not a good argument against people, who take the situation into consideration together with Sylvanases experience with war.

There is proberly a bit fanservice behind it, but there is really noone in the horde, who can beat Sylvanas as a leader atm. Sure, Blizzard could have created a character, who would be better at Sylvanas in a leader position, but it would proberly have taken ALOT of time, since that person would have to compete with an age old Warcraft character, which have had 6 expansions to evolve as a character.

So i would say that you are wrong. I have put forth my arguments, and from what i have read on this thread, nobody have really been making any effort to counter them.

Pretty much this, only would have liked to see the dialog being better for Voljin to pass leadership to Sylvanas. It was a bit plain in my opinion.

[mizeri]

maybe she is a little different now after she went to WoW hell and what not

[Flurryfang]

Pretty much this, only would have liked to see the dialog being better for Voljin to pass leadership to Sylvanas. It was a bit plain in my opinion.

Indeeed. They could have made it much more clear, that in the eyes of Vol'jin, she was the only who could save them from the legion. While i don't completly dislike the "the spirits are telling me you are the 1", a full conversation between Vol'jin, Sylvanas, Bain, Lor'themar and maybe Thrall would definently have been better.

Also, Sylvanas did not really do that much at the Broken Shore. If they had showed, that she had some great strategy or maybe an ability to make superior judgement, then it would have helped the transition better

[The Stormbringer]

We'll never understand what the Loa told Vol'jin.

The Loa are not Azeroth's or the Horde's enemies.

The Loa are wild and unpredictable, often self-serving and willing to create great harm and destruction if it suits their ends. They care little for the suffering of mortals. The only reason I can see that we might trust them in this would be if the vision involved Sylvanas being instrumental in saving the world from the Legion.

[Kahmal]

Sylvannas's ascension makes perfect sense.

Thrall chose Garrosh, which was idiotic and still laughable. Garrosh was in the Horde for a total of two years and despite his efforts in Northrend his mind set really only made things worse since he was willing to attack the Alliance fighting a war on two fronts. Not to mention Thrall had better choices, Cairne Bloodhoof and Vol'jin. Thrall assumed (I think) that an Orc would be best to not upset the balance, which means Saurfang would be perfect....but he goes with Garrosh. Look how well that turned out.

Vol'jin's choice was more out of desperation. This is the freakin Legion were talking about, the biggest threat we've faced since Deathwing or Arthas, Baine is too young, Gallawax isn't a freakin choice, he's a money grubber. And for some reason no one considers Saurfang (seriously WTF...just kill the guy off already then). That leaves Sylvannas and Lor'themor, elves and forsaken have always been the outcast of the Horde, but Sylvannas is has been in the Horde thee longest of the faction leaders and the most accomplished battle commander both in life and death. Yes she's a wild card but she won't do anything stupid until the Legion is dealt with. We can worry about her later. A totally logical choice.

The Alliance can be lead by any of the faction leaders, Anduin has come into his own despite his age, Tyrande and Jaina are a bit bloodthirsty but are the longest surviving Alliance faction leaders. Velen and Malfurion are the wisest characters in the entire game.

[Trassk]

maybe she is a little different now after she went to WoW hell and what not

Thats why take on it. I feel that before that took place, Sylvanas was hell bent on a lot of messed up things, back in cata what she was doing to gilnaes was pretty bad. But when she 'died' and saw for herself what awaits her, all the undead who don't get to go into the light after they they, it scared her so much, she started to form a new outlook, and it matured her.

least thats my take on it, she did still have that violent outburst when Vereesa refused to join her in undeath.

[Zulkhan]

Lor'themar does say "it may come to that," but he doesn't make the initial suggestion, as you said. I'm not sure Lor'themar's response can be seen as really anything other than a concession of extremes - it doesn't speak to a desire or a reticence to lead the Horde.

...yes, he absolutely does.

He reaffirms Rommath's suggestion by saying "It may come to that."

I acknowledge my lapsus you good people. I didn't exactly remember Lor'themar saying anything to begin with and even less something related to Rommath's specific statement.

This said, I agree with the first quote. I'm not sure that's a particularly strong evidence of Lor'themar's willingness to be Warchief, especially considered the fact that back then the circumstances and context were vastly different from the current ones.

The Loa are wild and unpredictable, often self-serving and willing to create great harm and destruction if it suits their ends. They care little for the suffering of mortals. The only reason I can see that we might trust them in this would be if the vision involved Sylvanas being instrumental in saving the world from the Legion.

As Aucald said, is either redemption or Sylvanas being a chess piece for something bigger. In my opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be a mix of both.

Vol'jin's choice was more out of desperation

It didn't look it was that the case, at all, nor it's tied to any kind of self-told narrative.

[Syegfryed]

The Loa who talked with Vol'jin and tell him to put sylvannas warchief is named "Kosak" and he said "Many will not understand" because characters cannot understand what is fanservice, is something who doesn't exist on azeroth

The Loa who protect the darkspear tell vol'jin to put her as warchief, but could not tell who will led the trolls, thats actually make a lot of sense

Vol'jin could not heal from a felblade, but could survive from the Garry's assassin, yeah sure

and rly, she doesn't need the title to command the horde forces and fight against the legion, Saurfang did not need when fight on silithus, Him and Garrosh did not need when they fight on northrend

Metzen, back pls

[Hctaz]

plaguing and raising undead wherever she fights.

not a single difference between her and arthas.

What? lol they deserve it. They are enemies to the horde and to her people. It's different. The Lich King did this in the name of the Legion and to further his own causes. Sylvanas doesn't attack for no reason. It's mainly self defense or just part of the Horde/Alliance war. If people stopped trying to kill her off then this wouldn't happen. Plus the people she brings to undeath still have their free will intact and aren't mindless pathetic ghouls most of the time like with Arthas. She's just recruiting more people to her cause.

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pre cata, the undead hated being undead, her fucking voice lines still reflect this sentiment.

pre cata forsaken wouldn't have started doing this in the first place.

Yes but Pre Cata she also had never died. She willingly threw herself off the top of ICC in order to end her life and realized that if she dies permanently that she would be thrown into a hellish torment for all eternity. Before, she hated her existence yes. Now she realizes that dying is worse than being undead so she will do anything to prevent her own death as well as the death of her people.

[Zuben]

Except, she DOES grow people in Hillsbrad, and she forcefully awakens dead people against their wills. Thats totally stupid. Thats like saying I'm a good person because I pay my taxes.

No, she doesn't grow people in Hillsbrad. That was a rogue warden, who was acting on his own and was summarily executed for it.

Necromancy is a matter of opinion. You don't like it, many who were actually raised into undeath don't mind it. Some do, which places it to the gray area, but because everyone get to keep their free will they have the power to do whatever they decide to do with their situation. Kill yourself, get yourself killed, live as a hermit, join the Forsaken, join other forces of the Horde, join the Argent Crusade, or even form a ragtag band of brigands with the goal of destroying the Forsaken, it's all up to you. Naturally, any force you take action against will retaliate, so you may not want to go against the Forsaken on your own.

The Blight is a horrible weapon, but until Azeroth forms a unified alliance to create common rules for what is acceptable, it's a weapon among weapons. Plus, it's a weapon the Forsaken use against their enemies, so unlike with the Scourge, you get to decide whether to set yourself to the target zone or not. The Forsaken halted their advance to Arathi Highlands and have kept it like that for years, so don't rile them up and your home wont get Blighted.

Sylvanas is not a good person any more than Jaime Lannister is a good person. She's just not a villain. Lich King was a villain.

[Stormdash]

Given the Illidan novel, and Sylvanas' ascension to Warchief (which started with her doing the most "team player" thing she ever does by sounding the retreat -- rare if ever we see her do something other than exactly what she'd personally prefer right then and there), and Vol'jin's lecture that she has to step out of the shadows; given all that, I feel like one of the big character themes of this expansion is going to be the shadowy grimdark misanthropes stepping up to a greater heroic destiny.

Good call on the Jaime Lannister comparison -- or really any ASOIAF. Sylvanas is a very Martin character, can do horrible things but still be molded into a sympathetic figure (the Hound also fits here).

I look forward to seeing the Sylvanas-Lor'themar dynamic with her being made Warchief. Their basic default social construct is that he is the only other Horde leader that seemed to "speak Sylvanas" and/or know how to handle her without starting a sneering contest. She should want to rely on him as her de facto ambassador to rest of the Horde now, we'll see.

[steelballfc]

It's just Illidan all over again, only Sylvanas has even worse fanboys because "OMG SHE'S SO HOT OMGOMG I WANNA FUCK HER BEST WARCHIEF EVER UGGHHH MUH DARK LADY" and considering Kerrigan's soundtrack plays at some points, I wouldn't be surprised if she and Illidan go on to become the super holy angelic and redeemed master pairing, the soundtrack drowned out by hordes of fanboys jerking off to their Sylvanas bodypillows..

too many mental images out there
my eye's hurt

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There is proberly a bit fanservice behind it, but there is really noone in the horde, who can beat Sylvanas as a leader atm. Sure, Blizzard could have created a character, who would be better at Sylvanas in a leader position, but it would proberly have taken ALOT of time, since that person would have to compete with an age old Warcraft character, which have had 6 expansions to evolve as a character.

oh the Horde have someone already
*whispering*
Med'an

[Deleted]

''Gallywix... I think he’d “Try to make the Horde great again."

Best comment so far ...)))))

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High Overlord Varok Saurfang was the best Warchief by my opinion.

[steelballfc]

Uh oh, OP, get ready for the SDF to come out and crucify you for criticizing their waifu.

Edit: Far, far too late.

MAN SYLVANAS DINDU NUFFIN

*sigh*
for the 3rd time - I guess - not all the Horde players or Horde fans are SDF
not because a char Have a fan-base you treat all Horde fans the same.
thank you

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Wow Krazy seems to be losing it. Gotta get a grip man, even in world filled with sylvanas there are things worth living for.

such as ?!

[Lastgope]

Uh oh, OP, get ready for the SDF to come out and crucify you for criticizing their waifu.

Edit: Far, far too late.

MAN SYLVANAS DINDU NUFFIN

You found a secret to always winning your "arguments". Just convince yourself that everyone against you is part of this fictional "SDF".