[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[worcester]

Have you guys seen Baddehs explanation for it? https://parselords.com/2016/08/02/beacon-of-virtue/

They seem to like using it, and the only time they switch to BotLB is if it's like right now, where stuff dies in pretty much a minute. Especially lasting for basically 10 minutes, it doesn't really seem like a mana problem, if you're smart about using it, and your other mana gainers.

If you look at the damage taken patterns and their health graph as a resource. It actually speaks more about how well the encounter is designed for healing and how well the raid members executed the fight than anything. Giving opportunity to heal non tanks; no single non tank target took more then 150k DTPS at any stage of the fight or more than their max health in damage for prolonged periods.

If you look at tank healing however (on their kill), the druid contributed a substantial amount which means something else was lost in terms of opportunity cost. The question to ask is: would it have been better for the paladin to focus more on the tanks and the druid to focus more on the raid? Without a doubt those logs prove that paladins can indeed be effective raid healers, but only pushing the most difficult content will show the true pitfalls of mismatching healing strengths between specs.

[Deleted]

My bad, I should of mentioned that I only considered Mythic Raiding as "Raiding".

[Supliftz]

Even holy priests and resto druids are a lot harder to play than paladin because they have to keep an eye on their mana. The hardest part about paladin is choosing the right talents, its really sad.


Yea man picking lightbringer, standing at ranged and then hitting everything when it comes off cd is so hard.

i never said holy paladin was like overly challenging. I'm mainly making the point that most other healers aren't that complex in comparison.

[Deleted]

Anybody aware of how Holy paladin compares to Holy priests in the areas of single target throughput and burst healing ?

[PeopleReady]

Anybody aware of how Holy paladin compares to Holy priests in the areas of single target throughput and burst healing ?

comes down to the player.

[Deleted]

comes down to the player.

So on paper they are even ?

[PeopleReady]

So on paper they are even ?

There is no "on paper" right now because classes are balanced around artifacts, legendaries (of which you're guaranteed at least one) and most beta players don't have all of that. According to them (myself as well as I test the classes at 110) they are all relatively even with Disc being slightly numerically behind depending on the encounter. The classes are close enough right now that the best player will top meters most often.

[Taeldorian]

There is no "on paper" right now because classes are balanced around artifacts, legendaries (of which you're guaranteed at least one) and most beta players don't have all of that. According to them (myself as well as I test the classes at 110) they are all relatively even with Disc being slightly numerically behind depending on the encounter. The classes are close enough right now that the best player will top meters most often.

I agree with this.

[Genzen Han]

There is no "on paper" right now because classes are balanced around artifacts, legendaries (of which you're guaranteed at least one) and most beta players don't have all of that. According to them (myself as well as I test the classes at 110) they are all relatively even with Disc being slightly numerically behind depending on the encounter. The classes are close enough right now that the best player will top meters most often.

So, is it your experience (and anyone else who's experienced some testing) that there is enough consistently available damage to heal that HoTs and smart heals will not just do all the work and leave hard-casting paladins with nothing to heal? I'm a little worried that, with absorbs now gone, the next 'OP' thing will be HoTs that are pre-applied in anticipation of incoming damage and which can cover most/all incidental 'ticking' damage, such that it will be hard to get much out of large, single-target cast-time heals.

[PeopleReady]

So, is it your experience (and anyone else who's experienced some testing) that there is enough consistently available damage to heal that HoTs and smart heals will not just do all the work and leave hard-casting paladins with nothing to heal? I'm a little worried that, with absorbs now gone, the next 'OP' thing will be HoTs that are pre-applied in anticipation of incoming damage and which can cover most/all incidental 'ticking' damage, such that it will be hard to get much out of large, single-target cast-time heals.

There's more than enough damage. You'll be wishing there was less.

[Taeldorian]

So, is it your experience (and anyone else who's experienced some testing) that there is enough consistently available damage to heal that HoTs and smart heals will not just do all the work and leave hard-casting paladins with nothing to heal? I'm a little worried that, with absorbs now gone, the next 'OP' thing will be HoTs that are pre-applied in anticipation of incoming damage and which can cover most/all incidental 'ticking' damage, such that it will be hard to get much out of large, single-target cast-time heals.

Man, go check out some mythic+ streams that slootbag does, or some raid testing that towelliee, sparty and slootbag do. Theres plenty of damage to go around.

Keep in mind, we also have a HoT of sorts. I really enjoy having tyrs deliverance for giant burst group damage. That along with Holy shock, IoL flash of lights, etc. We arent exactly hard casting since we have Bestow faith, BoV, and holy shock which are all instants that do healing/increase healing, and holy shock even speeds up one of our hard casted heals and increases the power of an already fast heal.

So no, theres been no trouble with damage. HoTs will not and do not in anyway act like absorbs did and if you play like they do you will go oom as a resto druid faster than any other healers. You have to be smart with your HoTs and pre plan, just like holy paladins do with the combo of BoV and Bestow faith, or else you waste mana and contribute to overhealing.

Either way, most healers are on par not including disc. I see a lot of raid comps going with Rsham/Rdruid/Hpal and Rdruid/Hpal along with Rdruid/Hpal/Rsham/Hpriest. Thats what Ive mostly seen so far coming from high end guilds (not world first, just high end}.

[worcester]

Anyone care to explain how Obsidian Stone Spaulders work now.
Would like to know what happens if you have a beacon on yourself. And when you take Faith, and have a beacon on yourself and the tank and heal a 3rd person.

[Deleted]

Anyone care to explain how Obsidian Stone Spaulders work now.
Would like to know what happens if you have a beacon on yourself. And when you take Faith, and have a beacon on yourself and the tank and heal a 3rd person.

As the tooltip suggests, they just transfer 30% of all healing you take to your beacons, even from most sources that don't normally transfer healing (eg. AoMercy, LoH). The only source I could find that didn't transfer was healing due to leech rating.

Self: You take 30% healing from everything, if you heal yourself with a beacon on yourself you take 30% extra healing due to the shoulders. If you heal something else you get 12% from the shoulders (30% of 40%)

Faith: both beacons take 15% healing from the shoulders. Healing target 1 with target 2 and you having a beacon results in shoulder healing of 4.8% (15% of 32%) of that initial heal on both you and target 2. There are no extra recursions as healing from the shoulders does not transfer to beacons.

Virtue: 30% divided by the number of beacons per target, same multi target results as faith.

[worcester]

As the tooltip suggests, they just transfer 30% of all healing you take to your beacons, even from most sources that don't normally transfer healing (eg. AoMercy, LoH). The only source I could find that didn't transfer was healing due to leech rating.

Self: You take 30% healing from everything, if you heal yourself with a beacon on yourself you take 30% extra healing due to the shoulders. If you heal something else you get 12% from the shoulders (30% of 40%)

Faith: both beacons take 15% healing from the shoulders. Healing target 1 with target 2 and you having a beacon results in shoulder healing of 4.8% (15% of 32%) of that initial heal on both you and target 2. There are no extra recursions as healing from the shoulders does not transfer to beacons.

Virtue: 30% divided by the number of beacons per target, same multi target results as faith.

Ok thanks alot, I suspected that recursion would be curtailed but had to be sure. Definitely a very interesting and cool effect.

[Deleted]

Man, after playing holy and comparing it to my priest and other healers.

Is this the best class for players to overachieve? like, outside of raid mechanics(which applies to everyone) the only thing that actually requires using your brain would be if you want to offensively use your judgements/crusaders and holy shocks instead of using the GCD for healing.

Like it feels like a good way for a 85th percentile player to become a 95th percentile.

[exriel]

Percentiles don't work that way, but yes, many people consider Holy Paladin to have a relatively high skill floor.

Regarding LotM, if the damage component were changed to a healing absorption debuff for the same amount on either the target or the paladin, how would that change your evaluation of the spell?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I think Aura of Sacrifice could be re-worked to be more like Paladin-SLT:

Normal Aura: up 30% of the damage dealt to the lowest health party or raid member affected by your aura is instead dealt to the highest health individual in the aura. Party or raid members that sacrifice their health in this way receive 20% increased healing from the Paladin for 6s.

Aura Mastery: Aura radius extended to 40 yards and damage is now transferred from the lowest half to the highest half of your party (i.e. lowest 10 > highest 10 or lowest 15 to highest 15)

[siccora]

urgs urgs urgs. yesterday first mythic raid after a long spring break. we went 2 shamans, 1 druid and me as pala. i felt useless i know, pre patch is dull and does not count, since you can 1 heal mostly every encounter. but i really felt kinda stupid.

i put my hopes in the longer legion fights.

[Pyrolight]

Hi all,

How is holy atm as a melee healer? I heard it kinda died but that was awhile back. Wondering if it is actually viable.

[MCC]

Hi all,

How is holy atm as a melee healer? I heard it kinda died but that was awhile back. Wondering if it is actually viable.

Not really, no.

[szandos]

Hi all,

How is holy atm as a melee healer? I heard it kinda died but that was awhile back. Wondering if it is actually viable.

Most of the time you're better off picking Beacon of the Lightbringer and standing in the ranged camp.