The Horde's performance at Broken Shore is quite pathetic

[Celestraza]

Quite an amusing thread.

Must say that playing through the scenario first battle (beachhead) and second battle (ground forces) seemed underwhelming for us heroes but you could see horde forces becoming stretched thin, losing NPCs left and right. For the final battle there was nothing left but a handfull of elite warriors and champions against the biggest force I have seen in the past 12 years of WoW. I think for the first time I was stuck on 1 FPS (usually 100+) on my mage trying to cast AoE because there were approx 200+ demons running around on my own screen and multiple spaceships shooting random laser beams of death. The last time I had it this bad was in TBC when we had an 80man raid in Stormwind and Alliance responded en masse.

That fight felt like a losing battle at some point (felt like the demon counter was going up with an increasing pace, not down regardless of how much AoE dmg we had) and the whole time I was like: Alliance, hurry the f... up we ain't going to last.

In the end Sylvannas saved the Alliance and Horde. The Horde factions (except the Forsaken) would generally stay, fight and die for a cause like this because that is the Horde way. In that scenario even if the Alliance would manage to reach and even kill Gul'dan. All the demons and spaceships that wiped out the horde faction and all their leaders would have an easy time cleaning house flanking the Alliance from every side resulting in their faction wipe as well. I mean in the end even Gul'dan is just an expandable pawn for the Legion. Only Sylvannas seemed to realize, comprehend and calculate the entire situation because she has her emotions in check making it possible for her to cut the losses and live to fight another day.

The only thing that bugs me a little is that whenever there is hardship for Alliance and Horde, the Horde always seems to come out of it worse. It is starting to get annoying and I am seeing a huge void in Horde leadership and strength.
1. Wrathgate.... hardship for both sides but Horde came out so much worse. I mean Bolvar at least became a new hero/Lich King. But poor Dranosh Saurfang got nothing to show for, unworthy death for a member of the greatest Orc family in the history of WoW, poor Broxigar and Varok. Let alone the Undercity left in shambles and the Forsaken significantly weakened and distrusted.
2. Cata... Cairne dieing in a total unglorious way but it is logical to make way for his son Baine to rise and shine but the rise and shine part is not there.
3. MoP... Horde again comes out so badly, losing the strongest Warchief (Garrosh) of all time and leaving Orgrimmar ánd the Horde in utter shambles. Thrall losing his powers. I mean granted Alliance lost Theramore but there was nobody of significance there and is comparable to the massacre of Sunreavers in Dalaran.
4. Legion... All Horde leaders utterly overhwelmed, defeated and injured in combat during the Scenario. Wrynn dieing makes sense, he has to make way for his son to shine just like Cairne did and you get a feeling he will. But who will fill the void of the darkspear faction....

Feels like massive voids within the Horde factions, they really feel pathetically weak in the leadership division which reflects their strength.

[Deleted]

Both the Alliance and Horde did very pporly on the Broken Shore.

The heroes are clearly there as reinformcements, which turns into an improvised landing party, then the whole thing turns into a rescue mission. After Tirions death any tactician should have gagued, that they have nor the manpower, nor the support to fight against the Legion, so they should have used the opportunity to retreat.
That and no communication between the Horde and the Alliance.

I know that the whole lore hinges on such idiotic behaviour, but as time goes on, it's harder and harder to accept, that none of the characters show any real strategic, tactical or political thinking.

[Cien]

They do, but it's after the events that unfolded at the ridge. They see Sylvanas getting chosen to be Warchief and wanting to avenge Vol'jin's death.

those events really are not in the same league as the alliances moments starting with high tinker

[Deleted]

Best part for me was seeing Thrall on the ground, pummeled and beaten.

You have to wonder what's even left of the Horde. Guess their ranks are very thin after SoO and what's left is just a collection of incompatible races.

[Rend Blackhand]

In this thread: Alliance crybabies and those who do not understand retreat as a valid military tactic.

[Louz]

Gul'dan and his small battalion.

Except there's literally every named Burning Legion boss ever swarming the Alliance.

Atleast play the damn game, not just watch cutscenes on mmoc frontpage

[Deleted]

This topic isn't about the Horde betraying the Allicane. That is just BS and noone sane cares about it. It's about the almighty Lok'tar Ogar Horde running away at the first sign of trouble.

[Corvus]

Except there's literally every named Burning Legion boss ever swarming the Alliance.

Atleast play the damn game, not just watch cutscenes on mmoc frontpage

And not one of them took part in the fighting.

The Horde had a huge number of named demons as well, plus the endless zerg of normal demons plus Legion spaceships raining down lasers from the sky.

[kennytheone]

Played both alliance and horde versions of the broken shore event and the hordes are fighting waaay more demons than the alliance + there were some laser beams fucking thrall and all the others while alliance have only few demons + a few known demonlords that we allready fought 2-3 times before

[Deleted]

Both the Alliance and Horde did very pporly on the Broken Shore.

The heroes are clearly there as reinformcements, which turns into an improvised landing party, then the whole thing turns into a rescue mission. After Tirions death any tactician should have gagued, that they have nor the manpower, nor the support to fight against the Legion, so they should have used the opportunity to retreat.
That and no communication between the Horde and the Alliance.

I know that the whole lore hinges on such idiotic behaviour, but as time goes on, it's harder and harder to accept, that none of the characters show any real strategic, tactical or political thinking.

Well, in "Game of Thrones" you will also find many of such stupid decisions, which are often made because of feelings (a love marriage which breaks a truce about an arranged marriage which leads to the infamous red wedding / also Ned Stark...), but if you have a brilliant strategist there, then he or she truly is brilliant (Tyrion Lannister, though he also had his emotional and idealistical weaknesses and carnal desires; also an impressive move by Cersei at the end of the last season, out of total ruthlessness, she's definitively more wicked then Sylvannas in my opinion...).

Thing is, GoT is all about the world, and all the characters there only serve the purpose of participating in the story, but not being the center of it. This could be a good concept for WoW as well, because it's about the world, not the signature characters. But as a gamemaster and storyteller and writer I can feel why it's difficult to let favorite characters move on. This is why I deliberately kill off some of my favorites, especially if their death can have a meaning.

I would love Varian and Vol'jin to live another day and to accomplish more, because I like these characters, and Vol'jin's death was also kinda underwhelming, but Varian did quite well given the circumstances. It was a good death, defiant to the enemy even when completely alone and beyond any help save a miracle.

Besides that - I still have to play the Alliance version of the scenario, only had the time to go through the horde one on some characters. But I now have a 3-day-weekend ahead of me, this should be plenty of time. As far as I can say, the Horde one is definitively quite overwhelming. My rogue had to be on his toes to stay alive in the demon swarms at the end... (outlaw aoe is great, but so the possibility of getting aggro. *g*)

[Jewsco]

In this thread: Alliance crybabies and those who do not understand retreat as a valid military tactic.

She was able to speak and even send jabs to varyin during the whole scenario but at the most crucial moment she didn't say a word?
Couldn't of said hey we are overrun here are leader is hurt we need to retreat and so should you varyin. Nope not a word. So all the alliance saw from thier point of view is them ditching them at thier moment of need. Can see why it like bad right?

[DeadmanWalking]

What!? The Horde was suppose to protect the alliance's flank and there was no third faction to cover the Horde's flank? Whaaaaa?

Here is the thing, this invasion is bigger. Before they had the moonwell to power a portal but at first they could only open the portal big enough for the small to mid-sized demons to get through. Then they sent in the Houndmaster to show the Highelves how to open the portal for Mannoroth, who then was working on opening the portal to Archimonde, who was suppose to open the portal for Sargeras. They got one, ONE, Mannoroth through the portal. This time they opened the gate in the temple of Sargeras and they can bring in thousands of Mannoroth all at once, not to mention the rest of the Legion and fel Star Destroyers. The temple of Sargeras was secretly a tactical nuke that would blow the doors open for the demon armies.
That is why the Horde couldn't hold their flank and lost the Alliance's flank.

[Jewsco]

Played both alliance and horde versions of the broken shore event and the hordes are fighting waaay more demons than the alliance + there were some laser beams fucking thrall and all the others while alliance have only few demons + a few known demonlords that we allready fought 2-3 times before

Did you see the very end of it as the horde retreated? When all those demons spawned and every named raid boss we have fought so far popped up? Every raid boss is nothing when we fight one of them at a time? Perhaps you may need a closer look at it. I would rather fight packs of random mobs/trash anyday than every raid boss at once.

[Hyral]

It's just like Varian said in the Undercity.

The orcs have a battle cry: Lok'tar Uguu! It means "victory or run away."

The cinematic shouldn't be a surprise anyway. The horde has lost all its identity by now.

[DeadmanWalking]

She was able to speak and even send jabs to varyin during the whole scenario but at the most crucial moment she didn't say a word?
Couldn't of said hey we are overrun here are leader is hurt we need to retreat and so should you varyin. Nope not a word. So all the alliance saw from thier point of view is them ditching them at thier moment of need. Can see why it like bad right?

At the point when the flank falls she was on the other side of a ridge, she wasn't within view of the alliance or Varian, she was busy trying to get her army out of the shitter.

In fact all the alliance could see was Syl's archers stepping away off the top of the ridge, there was no way to see or hear the other faction.

[Jewsco]

At the point when the flank falls she was on the other side of a ridge, she wasn't within view of the alliance or Varian, she was busy trying to get her army out of the shitter.

In fact all the alliance could see was Syl's archers stepping away off the top of the ridge, there was no way to see or hear the other faction.

True but the alliance from thier point of view do not know that and communication is key in battle.
Maybe she should of sent a few troops to convey this info and help the alliance retreat. Specially if you add in she knows her rep isn't the greatest.

[HordeFanboy]

Jaina is mal'ganis. And horde had gunship on broken shore.

[Deleted]

Hardly you cant claim you fought with the Lords of the Legion when you didn't. You didnt have to deal with them you only had to deal with a few waves that came slowly giving you time to deal with them.

The Horde gets zerged from the start the Legion doesn't wait they just keep coming and coming and coming.

Wtf are you talking about, you can see that Alliance fought against them, the fact that Varian/Glenn didn't deal with that is irrelevant to my post, the alliance army fought against them, fodders or not

[Youn]

So, I got to ask.. are both Varian and Vol'jin too lazy to walk back to the spirit healer?

[DeadmanWalking]

True

That is all you needed to say. It's a fuckin story, meant to set up the expansion. It doesn't need to pass the law of physics, it's a story about orcs from another planet, native american cow men and dead guys with a hard on for alchemy. It is suppose to set up a scenario where one faction doesn't feel it can trust the other exactly when it needs to pull both factions together.