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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by razazel2 View Post
    i just saw the Method healer rankings on youtube and was so sad to see that disc is at the last place
    I watched that video as well and most, if not all, of his reasoning's for placement are opinion based. Not very much fact in why he placed which healer where he did. I wouldn't believe what he says and I would just make up my own opinion by myself. See what works for you, how your play style is and what your raid comp is and go from there. Believing someone's opinions just because they are in a bigger guild does not mean they are correct. Plus, isn't Method not even going to continue in Legion??? I'm pretty sure that most of their core members left Method and started a new guild called Serenity.
    Stay weird. Stay strong and beautiful. It's those uniquenesses, those things that make us different that makes us powerful. Live to defy.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Krstl View Post
    I watched that video as well and most, if not all, of his reasoning's for placement are opinion based. Not very much fact in why he placed which healer where he did. I wouldn't believe what he says and I would just make up my own opinion by myself. See what works for you, how your play style is and what your raid comp is and go from there. Believing someone's opinions just because they are in a bigger guild does not mean they are correct. Plus, isn't Method not even going to continue in Legion??? I'm pretty sure that most of their core members left Method and started a new guild called Serenity.
    Rapid Eye Movement (world 6) is the new Method.

    Videos like this can be very damaging for the vast majority of raiders who are raiding at an average level (mythic but slow to progress). Every healer is more than viable at the level that majority plays at. However, raid leaders rarely care about what is actually viable and simply seek to emulate the popular comp of guilds like Method. When you have 6 options and only 3-4 slots to fill then someone isn't making the cut. This is a big part of what happened to Holy last expansion.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by elmoe420 View Post
    When you have 6 options and only 3-4 slots to fill then someone isn't making the cut. This is a big part of what happened to Holy last expansion.
    Holy got shafted because it was weaker than all the other healers and it's toolbox just wasn't there. That in addition to the damage patterns of HFC made our mastery fairly useless. That aside I got stuck in a weird position when progressing on Mythic Blackhand where we had 3 holy priests and 1 disc priest. In that environment we were all doing very well in comparison to other healers, however once we added a shaman to the mix holy went down the drain pretty fast.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Jep3 View Post
    Probably not, which makes this trinket even less valueable for us, which is a shame.
    If you pull up the Nighthold loot table from the in game adventure guide while in disc spec the equip for Ephemeral Paradox says "Your healing spells have a chance to cause your next Shadow Mend to restore 11,500 mana instead of costing mana."

  5. #525
    It gets frustrating when even your raid leader is putting you on the spot about disc. I'm required to play perfectly and also hope the raid takes less random damage or else I'm forced to play Holy/Shadow. Unfortunately many guilds will be doing this due to the negative stigma Disc has.

    Self-fulfilling prophecies suck.

  6. #526
    Holy is in a great spot right now - decent utility and incredibly powerful throughput. In reality it's just going to come down to whether or not your raid can sacrifice some healing throughput for that extra damage, imo.
    Last edited by xdmemes; 2016-08-12 at 06:57 AM.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Helelos View Post
    It gets frustrating when even your raid leader is putting you on the spot about disc. I'm required to play perfectly and also hope the raid takes less random damage or else I'm forced to play Holy/Shadow. Unfortunately many guilds will be doing this due to the negative stigma Disc has.

    Self-fulfilling prophecies suck.
    With enough crying about Disc though, Blizz will most certainly buff it 1-2 months into the expansion. "Squeakiest wheel gets the grease" and all that.

    Same thing happened in Cata: Disc was shit and Holy was the way to go, and then like 1 month into the expansion they buffed Disc...a little too much, and had to nerf it a little more because bubblespam was OP in 25mans where you had multiple shamans for mana tides.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Charityx View Post
    Holy is in a great spot right now - decent utility and incredibly powerful throughput. In reality it's just going to come down to whether or not your raid can sacrifice some healing throughput for that extra damage, imo.
    I see it more as can you sacrifice some sustained healing for burst healing in key spots. Take Iron Reaver right now as it has a couple of mechanics that require sustained minor healing, like Fel Orb, and other stuff that requires you to push out more healing like Pounding. I helped a guild out last night and we were 2 healing it. The other healer was 715 and I'm 742. It was very very rough as disc to heal through people's mistakes and I ended up swapping to holy as we needed more sustained healing and I could just cover the big stuff with apotheosis and Divine Hymn. It was still pretty rough, but easily doable as Disc, if the other healer had a bit more gear.

    My point is that disc has the throughput potential, but it just lacks in certain areas where holy can fill it a bit better.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    With enough crying about Disc though, Blizz will most certainly buff it 1-2 months into the expansion. "Squeakiest wheel gets the grease" and all that.

    Same thing happened in Cata: Disc was shit and Holy was the way to go, and then like 1 month into the expansion they buffed Disc...a little too much, and had to nerf it a little more because bubblespam was OP in 25mans where you had multiple shamans for mana tides.
    How did that work out for Holy in WoD?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    How did that work out for Holy in WoD?
    Holy was never bad. Disc was just OP as fuck because blizz couldn't figure out how to balance absorbs.

    At cata release on the other hand, Holy was okay and Disc was just terrible.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Holy was never bad. Disc was just broken because blizz couldn't figure out how to balance absorbs.
    Holy got outperformed by every other healing spec because of tier bonuses + it's toolkit was lacking. Disc impacted all healers, not just holy.

  12. #532
    At a mythic level, maybe. I don't remember having any trouble with Holy throughout Normal+Heroic. I was always at least on par with other healers, barring Disc.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    At a mythic level, maybe. I don't remember having any trouble with Holy throughout Normal+Heroic. I was always at least on par with other healers, barring Disc.
    Were you in a guild/formed up group or a PuG? It's a world of difference between playing with people that don't care, and people that do.

  14. #534
    Haven't been in a guild since Cata. 100% pugs throughout WoD, cleared norm+heroic with AOTC on all the raids.

    Wouldn't really say that people in pugs "don't care", especially with pug-killer fights like Ko'ragh, Imperator, Maidens, Blast Furnace, Blackhand, etc.

    Just because someone pugs, doesn't mean they're bad at the game.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Haven't been in a guild since Cata. 100% pugs throughout WoD, cleared norm+heroic with AOTC on all the raids.

    Wouldn't really say that people in pugs "don't care", especially with pug-killer fights like Ko'ragh, Imperator, Maidens, Blast Furnace, Blackhand, etc.

    Just because someone pugs, doesn't mean they're bad at the game.
    You misunderstand, what I've seen when pugging not everyone is playing to their best ability like you would see in a progression guild/group. Not saying that all pugs are like that, but it seems to be quite a few of them. Pugs are more likely to stand in the fire, be slower to move, etc etc than someone that's in an established group and knows what the healers can heal and what they can't. I'm just saying that your experience with holy was fairly unique and not the norm.

  16. #536
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Haven't been in a guild since Cata. 100% pugs throughout WoD, cleared norm+heroic with AOTC on all the raids.

    Wouldn't really say that people in pugs "don't care", especially with pug-killer fights like Ko'ragh, Imperator, Maidens, Blast Furnace, Blackhand, etc.

    Just because someone pugs, doesn't mean they're bad at the game.
    There is a ton of raiders that only pug, and have drawn all their information from forums like this, or high end raiding players. But I honestly don't think that it is the spec that is holding the pug players back. I know there will be quite a few raid leaders out there that won't even invite you if you're not the spec they're looking for. But in the end if you had put the same amount of time into holy as disc, I don't think it would make a huge difference which spec you were playing, and often you see players playing disc for complete different reasons than the top raiders or whoever told them to play disc in the first place.

  17. #537
    Greetings first post! I have been lurking this site since last xpac, after an in-game buddy recommended this site for good information on WW monk (my main in WoD). Very committed and knowledgeable individuals here.

    I’m very intrigued with the changes to disc and shadow and was considering playing it as my main(shadow).

    Has anyone done any research on the viability of disc as just a pure dps in a super casual raid group? My thoughts on how the spec would be played is as a dps until another healer went down or there was insane damage mechanics on the tanks (or raid wide I guess). Or just as a filler on the tanks (with im sure insane over healing). I could plea the tanks and then go Ham on the deeps.

    I quickly tested it today on Archie LFR and I did basically the same total damage (7 million +) for each spec. Shadow was slightly higher, but still in the 7.7 million area.

    Am I playing shadow wrong or can you get good numbers on disc by ignoring your real job (atonement healing)?

    Looking forward to your insights
    Hammy

  18. #538
    Shadow's damage is exponential in relation to VF stacks. So the lower your average stacks the lower the difference between shadow and discipline dps. Which is why the difference between the two at 1) low ilvl and therefore low haste and/or 2) LotV instead of StM, is pretty minimal. That being said, doing a normal 3min rotation for both disc and shadow on beta, disc did only 5% less damage than shadow (this was using Schism). So I would definitely say if you want to play disc dps, and it isn't a hindrance on a casual team, then go for it.

    I'm not sure if I had MH or CttV at the time of the testing, but I do know I had PotDs.

  19. #539
    Do you happen to have logs for your pull as shadow? Can't really tell you if you're playing right without them.

    To answer your original question, it's probably better to main shadow and just swap to disc to heal on those fights you need to. You're really gimping yourself and the raid if you just use disc as a DPS spec.

  20. #540
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamunra View Post
    Greetings first post! I have been lurking this site since last xpac, after an in-game buddy recommended this site for good information on WW monk (my main in WoD). Very committed and knowledgeable individuals here.

    I’m very intrigued with the changes to disc and shadow and was considering playing it as my main(shadow).

    Has anyone done any research on the viability of disc as just a pure dps in a super casual raid group? My thoughts on how the spec would be played is as a dps until another healer went down or there was insane damage mechanics on the tanks (or raid wide I guess). Or just as a filler on the tanks (with im sure insane over healing). I could plea the tanks and then go Ham on the deeps.

    I quickly tested it today on Archie LFR and I did basically the same total damage (7 million +) for each spec. Shadow was slightly higher, but still in the 7.7 million area.

    Am I playing shadow wrong or can you get good numbers on disc by ignoring your real job (atonement healing)?

    Looking forward to your insights
    Hammy
    Shadow is one of thoes speccs that scale immensly with their artifact. The artifact spell is quite a big deal cos it stopps the insanity lose.

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